So I Got A 37" LCD TV 1080p... Now what?

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02-24-2010, 02:04 AM
Joe Redifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Joe: This image retention is like 3-5 minutes. Not years.

LOL, I meant that it takes a year or two for the image retention problem to surface, not that the retention itself lasts years.
02-24-2010, 10:17 AM
tomaitheous

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guntz

On the CRT subject, it's not screen retention, it's burn-in. Anybody who's been exposed to Arcade games knows all too well about it. Most Arcade games are left running 24-7, stuff like the score and time can leave a permanent (and very noticeable) imprint on the TV. You'd think tomaitheous would have mentioned that...

Why would I have mentioned that? We weren't talking about burn-in. That's permanent. That's the phosphorus degrading. And the 7 years I've had this 53" HD CRT, no burn in. (And BTW, IIRC I did measurements some years back and determined that I would need close to a 70" widescreen set to get the same height I have with this set. If that tells you anything about the pixel size of low res consoles).
02-24-2010, 01:04 PM
Guntz

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Why would I have mentioned that? We weren't talking about burn-in. That's permanent. That's the phosphorus degrading. And the 7 years I've had this 53" HD CRT, no burn in. (And BTW, IIRC I did measurements some years back and determined that I would need close to a 70" widescreen set to get the same height I have with this set. If that tells you anything about the pixel size of low res consoles).

Fair enough on the CRT subject, but I know very well that most old consoles have a screen resolution of 320x240 or something similar. When stretched to 1080i, it can look very blocky on a large TV. That's why it helps if you can at least get 720i on Composite or S-Video, or better 480i if your TV supports it. Remember I'm talking about LCD/Plasma sets at over 40".
02-24-2010, 08:08 PM
OldSchool

This thread is badass:!: I need to do some quotes and ask some specific questions but I've been pressed for time this week..
02-25-2010, 07:59 PM
kool kitty89

Quote:

Originally Posted by runback22

I found something very weird with my samsung tvs.....On my 52" 1080p 120hz samsung, my genesis actually looks really good just hooked up with composite....I was shocked at how good it really looked......

I took my 22" samsung, 720p tv, and hooked up the genesis. Holy crap did it look horrible. It was a pixelated mess. I figured it would look even better on the smaller tv. I was wrong.

That's probably due to the differing quality in deinterlacing (some even have proper 240p support) along with filters being applied. Try to make sure all filters are turned off any play around with the sharpness as well. (sometimes best at 1 or 0, sometimes not)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TmEE

LCDs got motion blur and poor colors in most cases...

it ranges widely though, and newer (and higher-end) sets tend to be a lot better in both categories. (and viewing angle) Compact LCDs for laptops and such still have poor viewing angle and contrast from what I see though. (I can't even seem to be able to adjust the contrast and black level on my laptop, only brightness) :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guntz

I was referring to the LCD v. Plasma thing, CRT wasn't being taken into account. It beats out both of them in most areas, but these days I find the newer sets produce better color with no bleeding. Reminds me of my DS Phat when compared to a DSLite. The latter has a much more vibrant and colorful screen. I'd buy one of the rest of the unit wasn't so crappy (buttons, grade of plastic, shape of the system, D-Pad etc).

HD CRTs vary of course, the best should come close to good VGA monitors, the worst probably not much better than good SDTVs in terms of beam precision and phosphor persistence (and pitch). That siad, VGA monitors themselves can be good options, though anything above 20" is a bit hard to come by. (we've got a nice 20" CRT moitor that's about 9 years old and is great for any game system I've seen on it -Xbox, Wii, PS3, as well as a PC monitor -and most of those were through a YUV to VGA adapter)

Of course there's OLEDs now too, but not very common yet.

Quote:

TMEE said it already. LCD's tend to have bad refresh latency (otherwise known as motion blur or ghosting) and color issues. They're less expensive and less power hungry, but those advantages come at a cost. Plasma all the way! (behind CRT of course)

I don't find motion blur that noticeable on out LCD monitors and TVs, no worse than some odd blurring/trailing (image retention?) on some Plasma's I've seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbigreddog

I HATE simulated scan lines! Case and Point! http://www.sega-16.com/forum/image.p...ine=1217468276

What about real SD scan lines?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

It happens as the monitors age, it was never there for the first year or two. I don't understand what causes this.

I haven't noticed that on our ~8 Year old 1024x768 GEM LCD monitors, they seem to work as well as ever. (contrast isn't great -you can get it OK, but at the expense of a fairly dark screen, and viewing angle isn't perfect, but great for 8 years ago -I think they were around $400 each at the time -on sale)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomaitheous

That's why I said 100% scanlines (and close to that, even at 50%!), doesn't accurately simulate scanlines of a real monitor BITD. For a number of reasons; the "beam" wasn't that skinny on old 15khz monitors. You really tended to get "ballooning" of the scanlines. As in, they take up more width than the gap itself. It's not 1:1. If you ran later multisync monitors with thing beams, you'd get 1:1 or even less width on the actual scanline VS the gap. SDTV CRTs (be it RGB input or just plain RF/composite/svideo and even component SDTV sets) are pretty much in the same category as the old 15khz RGB monitors. You know why? Because as displays got bigger, interlacing artifacts became more noticeable. Fields with overlapping scanlines between even/odd helped keep the flicker down (even on smaller sets, not just bigger sets). Progressive outputs to SDTV (and old RGB monitors) still got a bit of a benefit from it. Thus, 100%,75%,50% don't "look" like the original monitors they are trying to emulate, even though the idea/logic seemed sound. You're eye interprets SDTV RGB/other progressive images that way it would see ~20-25% scanline effect on am image for a monitor today (which has practically 0 mask visibility).

You need to have a pretty high resolution to get proper 240p scanlines though. (to allow 25% -or 75% require 4x scaling of the original immage)
For games running in 320x240, I prefer to simply use the direct 320x240 display mode (in fusion -with square, unscaled pixels) and get a bit of blur due to the monitor's video scaler. (for LCDs at least; on CRTs you sometimes get funky scan line gaps at those resolutions)

I don't use the scanline modes in fusion due to darkness (except for 480i), but mainly due to werd color striations on my computer in those modes, but not in "normal" (320x240) or "double" (640x480) modes.
02-26-2010, 11:31 PM
OldSchool

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

That's probably due to the differing quality in deinterlacing (some even have proper 240p support) along with filters being applied. Try to make sure all filters are turned off any play around with the sharpness as well. (sometimes best at 1 or 0, sometimes not)

Fantastic! So I need to find a top of the line Model that has all resolutions... sounds simple enough... that's awesome they even come with filters (that can be turned on/off).

I was starting to think I was going to have to keep my 27" Analog forever.

Thanks for the headsup :D
02-27-2010, 05:57 AM
kool kitty89

Top of the line isn't alwys it, it depends on brands and such too. Our mid range 17" Phillips LCD looks great for SD stuff, but it's a bit older and a dedicated SD set (will not work with even 480p), so that's a special case. iirc Phillips tends to be better about that though, as does Samsung, I think. Christuserloeser should know more though.

You could always try it out before committing, although people might look at you funny for bringing old game systems in to test on a new HDTV. ;)
02-27-2010, 04:10 PM
OldSchool

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Top of the line isn't alwys it, it depends on brands and such too. Our mid range 17" Phillips LCD looks great for SD stuff, but it's a bit older and a dedicated SD set (will not work with even 480p), so that's a special case. iirc Phillips tends to be better about that though, as does Samsung, I think. Christuserloeser should know more though.

You could always try it out before committing, although people might look at you funny for bringing old game systems in to test on a new HDTV. ;)

:o I'm definitely entertaining the idea:!:
02-27-2010, 06:59 PM
kool kitty89

Sonic 2 might be a good one to test it with, it's got the interlaced 2-player split screen in there too to test.

If you care about light guns, that might be a problem though. HD CRT sets should work (as long as they're at 60 Hz), but plasma and LCD are no go.

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