Usual Suspects

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Originally Posted by Guntz

That still doesn't change how much garbage polluted the NES's library. Like I said before, only 1/6th of the NES's licensed third party games are actually good. That still leaves hundred upon hundreds of crappy titles. Don't forget the immense number of unlicensed titles for the system, which would add a very noticeable number to that already huge pile of garbage.

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No one is trying to say that, who is saying the NES didn't have shit games? Every system has shit games but the Wii has more shit games than the NES. You can say "But the NES had MOUNTAINS of shit games." but it doesn't matter, the Wii has more.

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The Wii DOES have good games to play. Just because you want to believe the Wii is absolute garbage doesn't mean it is. I know this is hard to comprehend, but you just have to trust me on this. Somebody who often plays Wii with friends and family instead of being a grumpy, sour armchair asshole, saying everything is a pile of crap without actually playing any of it (ala 17days).

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And you take my words and spun them into some kind of Anti-Wii statement. I never said the Wii had no good games, go ahead and find that quote if you can.

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Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic

No one is trying to say that, who is saying the NES didn't have shit games? Every system has shit games but the Wii has more shit games than the NES. You can say "But the NES had MOUNTAINS of shit games." but it doesn't matter, the Wii has more.

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How about we get some real numbers in here? I'm sure any source I use will just get bitched about, so I'll let you get those statistics.

Also, before you present the numbers and claim I'm wrong, keep in mind that the NES never had the same kind of media exposure the Wii has today. Obviously the Wii will have more games in general, so both systems will be compared by adjusting the ratio to the total game library.

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And you take my words and spun them into some kind of Anti-Wii statement. I never said the Wii had no good games, go ahead and find that quote if you can.

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It wasn't necessarily being directed at you, more like every other Wii hater in this thread.

I'm not a Wii-hater, myself. I'm a Wii-supporter, in fact. But even as a supporter, I'm open-minded enough to concede that the Wii has truly abyssmal third-party support. From this position, I reject the idea that the NES's library is in any way comparable to the Wii's.

The NES not only had excellent third-party support, but it actually put most of our major third-parties (Tecmo, Konami, Capcom, etc) on the map. Keep in mind that this was before the Mario and Zelda games blew up, so at that time games like Castlevania, Contra, Ninja Gaiden, and Mega Man were able to compete with first-party games on an even playfield.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

How about we get some real numbers in here? I'm sure any source I use will just get bitched about, so I'll let you get those statistics.

Also, before you present the numbers and claim I'm wrong, keep in mind that the NES never had the same kind of media exposure the Wii has today. Obviously the Wii will have more games in general, so both systems will be compared by adjusting the ratio to the total game library.

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Well this is going to be tough as they didn't have "official reviews" for the NES so I will be going with the general consensus of what is considered good. The rules:

Wii scores will be from Metacritic
NES scores will be games considered to be good.
I will use the total number of games for the Wii and NES(First party games excluded of course), then I will do the math and find the percentage of good games.

Here we go!

So the total of NES games is 671, source: http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/List_...(North_America)

Take off the first party games which are 74, Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...t_System_games

So now the total game list is 597

Now the 150 good third party games have been found in this thread are games considered good. So doing the math, we find that 1/4 or 25% of 597 NES third party games could be considered good.

Now it is the Wii's turn.

The wii has 585 games released at the moment, source: http://www.metacritic.com/games/wii/scores/

Of those, I will choose the third party games above 75%, first party games will be removed. First party games source(Japanese games rooted out: http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_games

48 First party games

So the total number of third party games is: 537
What could be considered good third party games:117

Doing the math, only 1/5 or 20% of third party games were good.

Cliff notes: In North America, 25% of third party NES games were good and only 20% of third party Wii games were good. While it seems close, remember that the Wii has less games out, and I was being very lenient by including games with only fair scores. The NES has more games, giving it a larger margin of error for shittyness and it still beat out the Wii. The Wii still has time to release more games but chances are it will have even more more shovelware. So in the end, the Wii, does in fact, have shittier third party games.

On a last note: Metal_Sonic here, Correcting you mistakes, WITH MATH!

dreamcast = most overrated fanboy system ever

@Metal_Sonic: Alright, you are correct from a mathematical standpoint. The Wii has comparatively more garbage than the NES, but it isn't completely cut and dry. The Wii is only lagging behind the NES by a small margin. That's actually quite respectable for a system that is apparently so crappy it could spark another video game crash, according to some. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic

On a last note: Metal_Sonic here, Correcting your mistakes, WITH MATH!

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Knuckle Duster here, Correcting your mistakes, WITH NIT-PICKING! :p

I don't see many Wii haters here, just realists.

The Wii is the only current gen console I find appealing myself, but even that doesn't say much with how estranged I am from gaming.
I accept this with the knowledge that I'm not being targeted, rather than cry and shit my pants about it like 17days would.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

@Metal_Sonic: Alright, you are correct from a mathematical standpoint. The Wii has comparatively more garbage than the NES, but it isn't completely cut and dry.

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Yes, yes it is, it is that cut and dry. Numbers don't lie.

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The Wii is only lagging behind the NES by a small margin. That's actually quite respectable for a system that is apparently so crappy it could spark another video game crash, according to some. :roll:

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No, the Wii has less games yet still has more shitty games. It is a big margin. And according to who exactly? 17Days excluded(since he hasn't even posted.), I haven't seen anyone hate on the Wii.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

Knuckle Duster here, Correcting your mistakes, WITH NIT-PICKING! :p

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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2..._you_super.jpg

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Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic

No, the Wii has less games yet still has more shitty games. It is a big margin. And according to who exactly? 17Days excluded(since he hasn't even posted.), I haven't seen anyone hate on the Wii.

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The Wii hasn't finished it's life cycle yet. The NES however, has. At this point in time it's a little unfair to call the NES better, especially when a lot of the NES's better games came out late in it's lifespan. Almost every system has most of it's good games released at least a few years after they're released. The Wii will definitely be no exception.

I have no reason to disagree with this^

the problem is that, while third-party support has been improving greatly in the past year, sales for these games have not. Which is probably why many of the good developers are backing off on wii support.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

I have no reason to disagree with this^

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Same

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the problem is that, while third-party support has been improving greatly in the past year, sales for these games have not. Which is probably why many of the good developers are backing off on wii support.

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Maybe the bubble burst? The Wii is nearing saturation and most people buying the Wii can't be consider "gamers" so they don't buy many games.

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Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic

So the total of NES games is 671, source: http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/List_...(North_America)

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That list seems to cut off after Break Time. In any case, I'm pretty sure 671 is incorrect. Digit Press lists 772 entries under U.S. game releases for NES. That does include a few duplicates, but the total is definitely over 700.

The Digital Press total counts unlicensed titles. We were talking about licensed third party games. That means games released under Nintendo's official approval. If we count unlicensed, then yes the list is increased by at least 100. NintendoAge states the licensed count is 677.

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Originally Posted by rift

dreamcast = most overrated fanboy system ever

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:hand: Say what?

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Originally Posted by Guntz

The Digital Press total counts unlicensed titles. We were talking about licensed third party games. That means games released under Nintendo's official approval. If we count unlicensed, then yes the list is increased by at least 100. NintendoAge states the licensed count is 677.

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Knuckle Duster's list of 150 games that we were going off also includes unlicensed titles.

In any case, the Wii has far more games now than the NES had at this point in its lifespan. More games coming out is generally going to result in a lower ratio of good to bad, and the Wii is consistent with this. While the ratio is worse, it isn't so much worse that the actual number of good games suffers in comparison. How many "good games" did NES have as of January 1989? I think the total number of good games is far more important than the ratio.