Usual Suspects

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Originally Posted by j_factor

Not true, Sony has had some excellent first-party games. Sony bought out Psygnosis in 1993. Every Psygnosis game for Playstation was actually first-party; they just kept the Psygnosis banner (until 2000) because it was a known name. Everything under the 989 name was also first-party. Ape Escape was made by Sony's main Japan studio, and MediEvil was made by one of their European studios. Gran Turismo is also exceedingly popular, although I don't like it myself.

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The thing with Psygnosis is weird though, why did they continue releasing games for varios other (competing) platforms if they were really a 1st party? (2nd parites sometimes do so, but 1st parties not so much) Look at the wipeout games for instance. Not contradicting you, just saying it's wierd.



On the NES, I wouldn't be surprised that 1/3 to 1/2 the games released on it ware considdered at least decent games by a significant number of people. Note that many people will hate games others like, I think Star Voyager is a pretty good game for example. I'd say that maybe 2/5 of the library is medocre to poor and maybe 1/5 to 1/4 to be outright crap.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

That still doesn't change how much garbage polluted the NES's library. Like I said before, only 1/6th of the NES's licensed third party games are actually good. That still leaves hundred upon hundreds of crappy titles. Don't forget the immense number of unlicensed titles for the system, which would add a very noticeable number to that already huge pile of garbage.



The Wii DOES have good games to play. Just because you want to believe the Wii is absolute garbage doesn't mean it is. I know this is hard to comprehend, but you just have to trust me on this. Somebody who often plays Wii with friends and family instead of being a grumpy, sour armchair asshole, saying everything is a pile of crap without actually playing any of it (ala 17days).

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The wii had good games, but I'd have to say that, if it doesn't right now, it will have a lower good to bad ratio than the NES does by the end of its life. (excluding VC games, of course -that totally skews things; wiiware would make sense to include though)

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Originally Posted by rift

dreamcast = most overrated Sega fanboy system ever

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Fixed, OR:

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Originally Posted by rift

PSX, PS2, NES, SNES, and N64 are more overrated fanboy systems than the Dreamcast ever will be

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:p

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

The thing with Psygnosis is weird though, why did they continue releasing games for varios other (competing) platforms if they were really a 1st party? (2nd parites sometimes do so, but 1st parties not so much) Look at the wipeout games for instance. Not contradicting you, just saying it's wierd.

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It does seem weird. But remember that there were Sega games on NES and TG16. Note that Psygnosis, just like with those Sega games, did not publish anything for Saturn or N64; rather, they went through other companies, namely Soft Bank and Midway.

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On the NES, I wouldn't be surprised that 1/3 to 1/2 the games released on it ware considdered at least decent games by a significant number of people. Note that many people will hate games others like, I think Star Voyager is a pretty good game for example. I'd say that maybe 2/5 of the library is medocre to poor and maybe 1/5 to 1/4 to be outright crap.

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I always find myself surprised by some of the games people supposedly enjoy. NES has some of the most egregious examples (in my mind). Like, there are people out there who actually claim to like Deadly Towers. I can only conclude that there must be some sort of weird psychological reason, like they received it as a present on the last Christmas before their parents got a nasty divorce. :p

But you know what? The same thing even goes for the Wii. I remember when I first heard about The Price is Right for Wii, my thought was "yawn, yet another piece of Wii shovelware". But then I saw a bunch of people express excitement, which bewildered me. And then when the game came out, a bunch of people (apparently) enjoyed it and were praising the game. To me, that's a huge "WTF?".

Given that, I'd bet that it's also true that on Wii, half of its games are considered decent by a significant number of people.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

I always find myself surprised by some of the games people supposedly enjoy. NES has some of the most egregious examples (in my mind).

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It's not just you. Everybody here (except Gamevet) were just kids when the NES was around, and the rating system in a child's mind (for the most part) is more of a two point system rather than a five. There were good games and bad games and not a whole lot in between.

Also, the video game industry was in its toddler years during the NES era - even adults had only the vaguest idea of what made a "good" video game better than a "bad" one. We were fresh off the 2600, for crying out loud! That's only a step better than the stick/hoop game.

It's just our generation failing to realize that fond memories don't necessarily make accurate ones. The twerps over at GameSpot are doing the exact same thing with the N64. It's odd to me that that system is the "NES" of this generation...

Tell me about it. I played many hours of Top Gun. We played Wizards and Warriors( still a good game) almost everyday during the summer of 89. I recall wanting to kill my younger brother after watching him play Kung-Fu for an entire day.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

How many "good games" did NES have as of January 1989?

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I think you mean as of January 1987. - Famicom came out in 1983, Wii in 2006, so 2010 would translate to 1987.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

Also, the video game industry was in its toddler years during the NES era - Especially adults lacked even the vaguest idea of what made a "good" video game better than a "bad" one.

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Fixed. :)


But hey, 16-bit was just around the corner:



As we all know, 16-bits translate to "More levels of play, better graphics, better animation on screen, ...erm longer games? ...just more fun to play." :roll:

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

I think you mean as of January 1987. - Famicom came out in 1983, Wii in 2006, so 2010 would translate to 1987.




Fixed. :)


But hey, 16-bit was just around the corner:



As we all know, 16-bits translate to "More levels of play, better graphics, better animation on screen, ...erm longer games? ...just more fun to play." :roll:

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What's that?! The leader of the North American branch talking out of his ass to know-nothing reporters?!

Like... this guy :p

I take it "the ratios" don't matter anymore now that MS has actually done the math?

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

As we all know, 16-bits translate to "More levels of play, better graphics, better animation on screen, ...erm longer games? ...just more fun to play." :roll:

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I always llove how that goy at ~1:00 totally ignores the nature of the console market... only buying software meaning a lot less money... Less money spent by consumers, yes, but proportionalyl much higher profits to the game companies givne the razor and blade business. They seem to completely ignore that. Software is whate the money is, be it direct sales or licencing royaltees.


Then howard phillips implying that the new systems don't have good games with that theater analogy... (well, that's a bit of an extreme infrence from his rather hypothitical statement, but still...)
The bigger issue is what he says around 2:20, video games weren't originally toys, quite the opposite, it was Nintendo who really promoted that at younger children, the boy comment is true though. I'm sure younger audiences were a major part of the VCS market as well, but with the Atari it was mainly arcade games and arcade style games, and arcades in the 70s and early 80s were hardly kid friendly and the biggest market would probably have been arcade fans, young adult males, so the part about gamers above 18 really doesn't apply unless you're talking in the context of 1986 onward. (from a Nintendo-centric prespective)

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Originally Posted by j_factor

It does seem weird. But remember that there were Sega games on NES and TG16. Note that Psygnosis, just like with those Sega games, did not publish anything for Saturn or N64; rather, they went through other companies, namely Soft Bank and Midway.

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Soft Bank was only in Japan. In Europe Psygnosis published both on PS1 and Saturn

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

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Originally Posted by rift

dreamcast = most overrated Sega fanboy system ever

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Fixed, OR:

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Originally Posted by rift

PSX, PS2, NES, SNES, and N64 are more overrated fanboy systems than the Dreamcast ever will be

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:p

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So true... except for the "most overrated Sega fanboy system ever"

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Originally Posted by M4R14NO94

So true... except for the "most overrated Sega fanboy system ever"

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So the Genesis (or MD) is more overrated than the DC by Sega fanboys? Maybe... probably moreso in the UK as well. I've seen more DC fanboysm than Genesis/MD though, and more bias towards the DC than MD/Genesis by non "fanboys," neither in RL though, only on videos, forums, and reviews.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

I think you mean as of January 1987. - Famicom came out in 1983, Wii in 2006, so 2010 would translate to 1987.

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Nah, I meant 1989. If you count the Famicom launch then you have to count the whole Japanese library, which is a whole separate discussion. We were just talking US.

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Originally Posted by old man

I take it "the ratios" don't matter anymore now that MS has actually done the math?

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http://i48.tinypic.com/wb9lpg.jpg

:D

I :rofl: at the mention of the 32X having 16-Bit sound (CD quality!) according to that Jaguar ad...

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Originally Posted by j_factor

Nah, I meant 1989. If you count the Famicom launch then you have to count the whole Japanese library, which is a whole separate discussion. We were just talking US.



http://i48.tinypic.com/wb9lpg.jpg

:D

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That's really weird, especially the sound thing... None of thsoe output CD quality sound except with CDDA... The Jag might be capable, but it's not very preactical to do so (large sample size if nothing else -mostly used 8-bit sameples anyway, often Amiga mod format as well), the SNES probably comes closer on average, though its peak is more limited. (ADPCM and limited to 32 kHz, plus the interpolation) CD Quality being 16-bit 44.1 kHz stereo linear PCM audio, and the Jaguar is capable of that, but not in practical usage, or very rarely.
The 32x is the weird one though, it's PWM is pretty weak (arguably weaker than the Genesis's YM2612 DAC in some cases), so it's really weird thay add it.

The bandwidth figures are odd too, regardless of the Jaguar being inflated for the 64-bit width an dnot taking the shared bus into account (1 processor only gets 1/2 th ewidth max, and 2 1/4 or less, only the video chips get the full bandwidth, and all have to share 1 bus), but they also ignore the multiple busses of the other systems. 3DO has 2 (main and VRAM), SNES and genesis have 2 likewise, and 32x has 4 if you include the genesis busses. (5 with the Z80s 8kB block; but since the Jag's scratchpads and 32x's caches aren't included, I'd probably leave that out)

The bandwidth values for the Genesis and SNES seem pretty odd too: the SNES should be around 2.68 MB/s (I think) and the Genesis about 15.3 MB/s (for the PSRAM at least, actual usage by the 68k would be less due to the way the 68k accesses -less than 1/2 that speed). Stillm that's a lot more than "~1 MB/s" as they claim. (not counting the faster video busses, of course)

Nice that they don't bother explaining the 32x's asterisk either. Assuming the SDRAM is clocked at processor speed and given the 16 bit bus width, it would be about 46 MB/s, but given the speed limitations of SDRAM, it could have been clocked at least double the SH2 speeds, but I don't know if they did that. (it would seem a waste to use expensive SDRAM though and not take advantage of the high speed possible -otherwise EDO DAm shoudl have been a fair bit cheaper and similarly fast)