Digital TV (out with the old and in with the new)

I am soon to be shopping for a digital tv... I've had a 27" Sony Analog forever, and in order to be able to have S-Video, I have to upgrade. I'm going to hold onto my 27" for a while after I get my new tv just in case some systems don't look good on the newer tv. I am anxious about how my NES/SNES/Genesis are going to look on a 65" (which is what I think I wanna get) digital tv.

I wish I could get a tv that was 4:3, I know Widescreen is all that's available though.
I will be playing all systems on this tv... from the Atari Flashback 2 - NES - P1-P3/etc - Computer.


I'd like to go top of the line and get the best... this is going to be a gaming screen for me (as well as watching DvDs of course), AND I'd like to play my Computer on this screen as well. I play my Comp games at 1280x1024 w/4xAA and V-Sync on a 17" CRT currently. I have no idea what to expect... the only experience I've had with LCDs has been 'meh'... dark colors don't look anywhere near as good as my (MAG) CRT does.

Any suggestions for me to look at? Pros/Cons of getting a huge tv versus something more conservative (30-40")?.. I'm all ears.

I feel like I need something that's going to at a minimum give me the same viewing size that my 4:3 Analog 27" has.

Thanks for any and all help,


OS

And from what I've read... LCDs still aren't quite 'there' in terms of refresh rate when compared to CRT... is this really still the case???

I've been waiting years so that I could buy something that is as good as my CRT is.
(wishful thinking at it's worst???...)

well, for starters, you can get S-Video and even component inputs on a CRT, the CRT sitting 5 feet from me has both and it's nothing special.

Secondly, anything prior to Dreamcast will look like a steaming pile of dogshit on anything but a CRT. Unless you are running it on an emulator with bilinear filtering and an interpolation filter like HQ2X or SuperScale2X, it's going to look like a blocky mess and even worse might have visible interlacing that looks SOOOO TERRIBLE.

If you want to go Hi-Def, you better go ahead and get to downloading emulators and ROMs and expect to use some sort of DVI or HDMI output from your computer. Nestopia, BSNES, Kega Fusion, ePSXe, and Project 64 should take care of all of your vintage systems and the first 3 are balls to the wall accurate to boot.

I plan on getting a 20~25" CRT for vintage systems and then mount a larger HDTV to the wall for everything else. That way, I can watch something in HD while I play something on the CRT screen.

Here's a reply completely opposite to 17days'.

Believe it or not, depending on the model and technology type of HDTV you get, vintage games CAN look good. Here's some things I recommend:

- Get a Plasma. Specifically I suggest the Panasonic Viera.
- Bring a console or two with you to the store to test the HDTV you are interested in.
- Use S-Video whenever possible.

Now for some things that need to be realized and accepted:

- Vintage 2D games are blocky. This is a fact of life. If you can't stand playing them without filters that smooth the crap out of the image, just play PSWii60.
- Composite is blurry. It will not be the TV's fault. On systems like the NES and Genesis (where S-Video is not stock), you will have to get use to the blurriness.
- HDTVs will never be better than CRT sets, but that doesn't mean a good compromise can be found. If you shop around and actually try to find a good set, instead of bitching about this and that, you can get a HDTV that does a good job of displaying SD content.

actually, you said the same thing, though rather than saying "sooo terrible" you said "sooo tolerable". I mean, if you're not going to improve the image quality, you shouldn't do it. Since HDTVs can be hung on a wall, it stands to reason to keep the CRT in the existing setup and hang the HDTV above it, thus getting the best of both worlds. Even better, you won't have to compromise with the newer systems to accommodate the old.

Why not just stick with a CRT and get a Sony Wega?

All I have to ass to this is, CRT and component video are freaking awesome. The $40 I spent on my used to CRT was well worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

If you want to go Hi-Def, you better go ahead and get to downloading emulators and ROMs and expect to use some sort of DVI or HDMI output from your computer. Nestopia, BSNES, Kega Fusion, ePSXe, and Project 64 should take care of all of your vintage systems and the first 3 are balls to the wall accurate to boot.

I plan on getting a 20~25" CRT for vintage systems and then mount a larger HDTV to the wall for everything else. That way, I can watch something in HD while I play something on the CRT screen.

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Lol, I'm buying all of the original Systems so I don't have to emulate so your advice while appreciated does me zero good.

Also, I'm not going to have two tvs mounted in the same room...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baloo

Why not just stick with a CRT and get a Sony Wega?

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http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId=11038341

Hmmm, definitely something to read about... I'm limited for time atm, but this sounds interesting.

Thanks for the input:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iron Lizard

All I have to ass to this is, CRT and component video are freaking awesome. The $40 I spent on my used to CRT was well worth it.

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:confused:

There's such a thing as a 65" CRT??? lol... you did read my opening post didn't you:?: ;)

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Originally Posted by OldSchool

Lol, I'm buying all of the original Systems so I don't have to emulate so your advice while appreciated does me zero good.

Also, I'm not going to have two tvs mounted in the same room...

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well then you made a bad decision because anything hi-def looks like shit with pre-Dreamcast systems. Older systems were designed around the fact that composite video+CRT function would smooth out the blockiness. Without that, you're going to playing Lego games that didn't originally have "Lego" in the title.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

well then you made a bad decision because anything hi-def looks like shit with pre-Dreamcast systems. Older systems were designed around the fact that composite video+CRT function would smooth out the blockiness. Without that, you're going to playing Lego games that didn't originally have "Lego" in the title.

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I like to pay for things I enjoy and simply using Emulators doesn't jive with that... I also pay for 'all' of my Movies and PC Games so Emulating is definitely out of the question along with the fact that I don't think the sound can ever be properly emulated.

I've been told my 27" Analog Sony Trinitron is 'the' perfect kind of screen to play NES/SNES/Genny/Atari on... and it's been nice having it, but if I get up and walk right up to the screen, I can see the blockiness.. hell, I can tell from where I play the games as well although it's not as pronounced.

I enjoy the look of the old systems, so I expect that when I play them on a bigger screen (65" is a Waaay bigger, lol... I understand that), the blockyness is going to be even more apparent.

If the TV has a resolution that matches the output of the System: I'm thinking it's gonna look the same as it does on my 27"... but it'll be 65"s.


thks
:o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OldSchool

I like to pay for things I enjoy and simply using Emulators doesn't jive with that... I also pay for 'all' of my Movies and PC Games so Emulating is definitely out of the question along with the fact that I don't think the sound can ever be properly emulated.

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well, first of all, if by "pay for" you mean "reimburse the copyright holder" then you would be buying them for Wii because no one responsible for developing the game is getting shit from buying used games from 1992.

If you just feel some misplaced necessity for legal entitlement, you can still buy the games and just emulate instead. I have boatloads of real, legitimate games and I DO have a CRT TV and I still emulate because of the convenience and features like save states and controller flexibility. Also, I will soon be moving to NYC and I simply won't have the space to store stockpiles of games.

As for sound, if you've used the latest and greatest emulators, you'd know the sound is indistinguishable from the best versions of real hardware. Kega Fusion is better than most REAL Genesis models.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OldSchool

If the TV has a resolution that matches the output of the System: I'm thinking it's gonna look the same as it does on my 27"... but it'll be 65"s.


thks
:o

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no, it won't, sorry.

LCD, Plasma, LED, etc. don't blur and smooth lines the way a CRT does, even with filters. HD TVs are meant to be as sharp as possible to support 1080p hi-def shows and movies. All pre-dreamcast systems are 240p/480i and that shit just does not fly on HD TVs. Can you play it? yeah, but it's not even close to ideal.

If you don't want to listen and just plow ahead, be my guest, but don't ask for something that doesn't exist and then insist that it does just because you want it to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

A. well, first of all, if by "pay for" you mean "reimburse the copyright holder" then you would be buying them for Wii because no one responsible for developing the game is getting shit from buying used games from 1992.

If you just feel some misplaced necessity for legal entitlement, you can still buy the games and just emulate instead. I have boatloads of real, legitimate games and I DO have a CRT TV and I still emulate because of the convenience and features like save states and controller flexibility. Also, I will soon be moving to NYC and I simply won't have the space to store stockpiles of games.

B. As for sound, if you've used the latest and greatest emulators, you'd know the sound is indistinguishable from the best versions of real hardware. Kega Fusion is better than most REAL Genesis models.



C. no, it won't, sorry.

LCD, Plasma, LED, etc. don't blur and smooth lines the way a CRT does, even with filters. HD TVs are meant to be as sharp as possible to support 1080p hi-def shows and movies. All pre-dreamcast systems are 240p/480i and that shit just does not fly on HD TVs. Can you play it? yeah, but it's not even close to ideal.

If you don't want to listen and just plow ahead, be my guest, but don't ask for something that doesn't exist and then insist that it does just because you want it to.

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A. I'm talking about owning an actual NES/SNES/Genny and the associated games, 'not' purchasing the digital DLs on Wiis Virtual Console Service, fyi. As for supporting the Virtual Console Service: I agree, that's one of the reasons I wouldn't want to have anything to do with it.

*Enhhhh*... how about I simply want to own the hardware... ever think of that..?... :cool:

B. If that's how you see it, then by all means: you're well entitled to your opinion. I produce music and you're never going to convince me that the sound from an emulator is going to be as precise as what the actual Sound Card in the Console is going to produce (bit for bit, the emulator is simply not going to get there from here). If you think the emulated sound is "better" then so be it: enjoy. :o At the end of the day, our opinions are purely subjective.

C. Even with these newer TVs having the exact Resolution? I picture it being bigger... simply bigger... Looking at SNES/etc on a 65" up close, yeah... I'm sure it looks very blocky, but from 8' away.. meh, I imagine it'll look just fine.


I appreciate your input.

I'll re-iterate my original post, to try and clear a few things up. I posted this elsewhere but it applies here all the same:

Usually people run into problems with upscaling and how the TV handles SD content (like that of the NES).

Remember, the NES's resolution is about 320x240 while most HDTVs these days can display a signal at 1920x1080. That is a whopping huge gap in size. The average HDTV will stretch the NES's resolution to that, even though it's receiving a composite signal. This is partly why the NES can look like garbage on new HDTVs.

A good HDTV will switch the display mode to 720i or lower for older machines at 320x240. This can help immensely. A good upscaler also makes or breaks the TV. A bad upscaler can induce the following symptoms:

- Input lag
- strained image
- blurry image on S-Video
- overall nasty looking image

As far as how this applies to purchasing the TV, many people have suggested bringing your favorite vintage console into the store to test it on whatever TV you're looking at, since things like the upscaler need to be tested with an actual SD device. If you can't do this, I recommend getting a Panasonic Viera Plasma HDTV. These are very high quality TVs that work great with SD content.

S-Video works the best with older systems, if they support it. S-Video produces a very clear image, which is what you want on a HDTV. The NES, sadly only having composite, WILL look a bit blurry on a HDTV. This is because of the composite signal, not the TV. On The Panasonic Vieras though, the blurriness of composite is hard to notice, so you'll be good to go.

Hope this helps. :)

Also, any mention of an HDTV in the above will be a minimum of 40". Any smaller and everything mentioned will not be relevant.