That's the year Sega should of releaed the 32X...
Late 94 was to close to the Saturn release
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That's the year Sega should of releaed the 32X...
Late 94 was to close to the Saturn release
Personally I don't think it would have worked very well. Are you considering the Sega CD in that release date? The 32X just doesn't fit anywhere in the lifespan of the Genesis. You'd either have to merge it with the Sega CD or kill it all together. Merging with the Sega CD wouldn't work at all because putting the exact same 32X tech (or even just the color palette) in the Sega CD would have drove the price up even higher than when the Sega CD's original launch price.
Personally I'm satisfied with where the 32X is sitting and how it turned out. Sure it would have been nice for more software to have been released for it or for Sega to have released it earlier, but what actually happened is the best we'll ever get since it already took place. I don't think anything could have been done differently to have given the 32X a longer lifespan. The only result changes would make is the 32X would have lived shorter or be cancelled all together.
They shouldn't have released either.
Kinda Agree here..but the 32X is better than the SCD imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lizard
I feel opposite. To each his own and I am a bit of an rpg nerd.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieBogard
indeed sir. I'm not much of an RPG guy. and I've had my SCD longer and can't seem to find anything I want to seriously buy for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lizard
As far as non Rpgs go.I used to play a lot of Final fight but now that is a moot point. Thunderstrike was fun. Sonic Cd was one of my favs though many people seem to hate it so I might just be crazy. Robo Aleste kicks ass.
I actually have Final Fight CD.. game bores me to tears tho..not SCDs fault..game is just boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lizard
Are you kidding?! Sega CD is a must-own in my opinion! Out of 240 some releases according to Sega-16, there's bound to be something for everyone in it's library. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lizard
I liked the Sega CD. I would have been happy if they had scrapped the 32X and pushed the Sega CD until the Saturn came out. More translations, fewer rereleases with audio.
If Sega had done their own localizations for third party games from Japan, like Record of Lodoss War things would have been okie dokie with me and the stage would have been set. The SCD could have been the SNES RPG fighter.
Don't get me wrong I love the Sega CD. Three of my all time favorite games are on it. However I think if Sega had just stuck to the Genesis things would have worked out better for them.
The 32X would have better games coming out in 92 then oposed to Late 94
Super SF2
MK2
or even a better version on Street Fighter 2 SCE
We will never know
Hypothetically speaking the 32X would have probably cost double to make and double to buy in 1992, how many people do you think would have dropped $320 US on the 32X new?
I mean that must be near $500 US in today's money, for a 32X... I'd want SEGA to make an add on that cooked my dinner and blast processed my dick for that sort of money.
They could have released the 32X in 1988 and it wouldn't have made a difference.
While I appreciate all the fun I had with the Sega Cd (my favorite of the two), system add-ons/expansions have never been successful, so neither one of them should have been released in hindsight.
I've had the fortunate/unfortunate pleasure of owning every failed Sega system, or add-on, before they failed...
It's just too bad Sega ended up where they are at now, but that doesn't make me appreciate what they had any less. What can I say, I'm a fan of old school stuff.
The 32x was a desperate attempt to hold people over until Saturn. Had it not failed, I guarantee Sega would not have released the Saturn early in the US....
The 32X failed because the Saturn was released early, not because the Saturn was imminent. The 32X was a huge success when it was first released and people were under the impression the Saturn wasn't going to be released for quite some time, because that's what Sega of America told them. Then they rushed the launch and the 32X was killed dead in it's tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by runback22
32X never should've been released period.
We can't change the past. I think 32x and Sega CD were both great ideas! And I personally love Sega CD alot! I And I really enjoy 32x... I would have enjoyed it more if they had released more/better SegaCD32x titles... Like Doom 2 or something with all the levels! That would have been a great idea!
I myself think 1992 is too early for 3 reasons.
1. The addon would have been more expensive at that year.
2. The Mega CD launched in that year, potentially clashing with the 32x.
3. Lower specs in the addon, again due to costs.
I think a late 1993 release would have been the perfect time for the 32x. It could have gone along the 3DO and Jaguar at that time. Also, not much more expensive than it's late 1994 release, a full TWO year lifespan (until the october '95 cancellation) with more of around 100 or more games released for it, No Saturn looming close in the horizon, and especially more consumer willingness to purchase it, again due to no Saturn looming by so close.
As much as I love the 32x, from a business standpoint, it shouldn't have been made at all...
Yes you are correct, we can't change the past... OR CAN WE?!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbigreddog
http://insomniahenceinsanity.files.w...ne_johnson.jpg
I'd have to agree with Japser's opinion that late 1993 would have been a much better launch, but I really don't think 1 year is enough of a gap from the Sega CD. People would have complained about that far more than the Saturn coming a year after the 32X, supposedly.
I wonder how many Hadoukens were thrown in 1992.
I wish I knew how much money I lost to Capcom :lol:
IMO Sega never should have released the 32X.
They should have stuck with SCD support up until Saturn's original launch. Taking their time to make a peripheral that allows Genesis playback through the Saturn cart slot possible. A mini gamegear redesign would have been nice to see kicking around too.
I should of said 93
I forgot the Sega CD was released in 92..
The main part of the hardware hadn't even had the first silicon produced in 1992... http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc6...S4/HC6.4.2.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by KnightWarrior
The SH2 had first silicon fabbed in october 1993 (a year before the 32x was released), even the SH-1 didn't get first silicon until september of '92.
There were other options, of course, but in 1992, they'd be a good bit less powerful for similar cost. (and ARM CPU probably being the best option) 1993 might have been a bit better though. (SH-1 is at least possible then)
However, going from the premise of the 32x being more important than the Sega CD, there is another direction to take, and oen I've brought up several times before; however, I can't see Sega dropping the CD idea alltogether given NEC's move and Sega's interest in testing the media. Though it could have been a simpler unit like NEC used (better suited to the limited expansion bus of the Genesis anyway -ironic that the PCE had an extensive bus that went unused)
Anyway, what I mean is, instead of using all that hardware in the Sega CD, put it in a cartridge based module, like the 32x, and add a little more to really make that hardware useful. Namely, that's adding a simple bitmap display controller (like the simple "super VDP" of the 32x) with a 256 paletized color mode and an overlay system for the Genesis graphics (granted, a mixing cable would be necessary for that).
The SEGA CD's video ASIC is hindered by the genesis VDP's tight DMA and VRAM limitations, even a dedicated 16-color bitmap layer would be a big improvement. (in fact, it might be good to have the bitmap controller support a 16-color mode -a thousands mode like the 32x has would be unnecessary though, just 16 and 265 indexed modes)
The enhanced hardware in the Sega CD really would be great for such a unit and would be far cheaper than the Sega CD, plus a simple, bare bones CD add-on would have been cheaper too, and combined, much more useful than the historical Sega CD. (though more expensive to buy the 2 units separately -but a better value overall)
Actually, with that set-up, you might not need the added 68000, relying more on the Genesis CPU instead, but possibly adding something else to the unit. A big part of the 32x was 3D, but the best option for a fast, embedded RISC CPU at the time was probably an ARM one, and that could be a bit expensive too, but probably a possibility. Better would be a more dedicated coprocessor, like a DSP, in fact the SVP chip would fit very well in line with that. (not sure when that DSP core was made though, but I'm sure something similar could have been used earlier) Again, a 1993 release would have other implications. (like an SH-1, possibly)
But really, what would have been Sega's motivation to release such? Something to combat the Super Famicom's hardware (with the CD unit combating the PCE's CD unit) perhaps? Something that would allow decent ports of some of Sega's heftier scaling arcade games and some 3D games starting to show up? (including Sega's new model 1 arcade board) The sound hardware and video ASIC do seem to push toward the SFC though, so that's a possibility. (indeed, with the additions, you'd now be able to pretty much match the SNES on its terms and then some, plus retain the other advantages of the genesis)
In hindsight, it might have even been better to have 2 add-ons as such, though historically the 2 add-ons were problematic.
Perhaps opting for a bare bones CD unit could have allowed an earlier release too, maybe even a year earlier. (NEC's unit being released in 1988)
However, getting into such hypothetical discussions, you can say other things, like the genesis expansion port should have been more comprehensive to facilitate the CD its self to have such features (more flat mapped address space, video signals, additional necessary signals including AS -for overlay)
Putting the VDP color bus on the expansion port would have allowed for some really interesting things (like dual VDPs -as chilly willy has mentioned before), though the VRAM configuration on the genesis would still be a bit of a problem. --Dual VRAM banks would have changed things -even 2x 32 kB banks rather than 1 64 kB block -or allow for either configuration. (though that would mean using VRAM chips with double the bus width -ie 2x 8-bit dual ported DRAMs rather than 2x 4-bit dual ported chips)
All the time and money wasted on the 32X should have gone towards an improved Game Gear and games. Some of the best GG games came out around the same time as the 32X if there was no 32X that "some" could have been "alot".
Deo the GG was slaughtered by the GB in its entire life. That money that was wasted on the 32X should've been put to use on the Saturn.
The Saturn was slaughtered by the PSX. That money that was wasted on the Saturn should have been put to use on the 32X.
:)
The 32x was slaughtered by the Saturn. That money that was wasted on the 32x should have been put to use on more Mega Drive games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
:p
The Genesis was slaughtered by the 32X AND Saturn. That money that was wasted on the Genesis should have gone to the Sega CD. ;)
Then there never would have been a Sega CD had there been no Mega Drive to waste money on! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Doh!
No, we're talking about late-era money. So your point is invalid, allow me to continue this hilarious joke thread:
The Sega CD was slaughtered by both the Genesis, 32X AND Saturn. That money that was wasted on the Sega CD should have gone to the Master System!
Oh yeah?! Well the Master System was slaughtered by the NES! That money wasted on the Master System should have gone to more awesome Sega Arcade games! Or...a 16x addon!Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
But the Sega arcades were slaughtered by the Neo Geo MVS (now I'm just grasping at straws). That money that was wasted on Sega's arcade boards should have gone to the Game Gear!
That's why I said "Now I'm just grasping at straws" because I figured the Sega Arcades were more successful.
Ohwell, the Neo Geo itself was slaughtered by it's own high price tag and the Mega Drive/SNES. But where right back to square one with the Game Gear, killed by the Game Boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Not if they did like NEC and switched mainly to CD based games... probably wouldn't have worked out so well in the west, but that didn't much matter in NEC's case as they never had the right marketing in the west. (honestly, they might have been better at going after Europe rather than the US -marketing scheme used in japan works in small countries, Nintendo wasn't dominating the Market, etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper061992
Not in Europe and some other regions. (South America, perhaps Australia)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper061992
In fact, I think the SMS was more successful in Europe (market share wise) than the Saturn was in Japan. (due to the PSX's massive popularity)
But back to the GG, I think dropping it was a bad idea, though it was long overdue for a dedesign... I started a thread on that topic already though, but IMO Sega might have been better off introducing a stripped down GG from the start (namely no backlight), or have a lower-end (cheaper and less batter hungry) model from the start along with a deluxe model. But regardless, smaller, more efficient, cost-reduced redesigns should have been forthcoming by the time the GB Pocket came around. The GG was the only major competitor to Nintendo's handhelds prior to the PSP. (Lynx had some impact, but mainly in a select few regions -I think it might have been more popular than the GG in UK)
Plus, other than unlit, there's the cheaper/simpler/more flexible option of side/frontlighting that nitendo didn't opt for until less than 10 years ago, but LCD watches had been using since the late 80s at least -before switching to the glow light like the GB light used. Granted, most such implementations were less satisfactory than the much later GBA SP -more glare and such. Still, that's a good possibility, and, like the SP retains the advantages of a reflective LCD screen in bright conditions. (so the light can be turned off and the screen will look better than true backlit units -lit ot unlit- due to the reflective layer)
The GB's reflective screen made it ideal for bright conditions, ie outside (after school) or in the car on a bright day (road trip), etc, the exact opposite for the GG/lynx, the brighter the ambient lighting, the poorer the screen visibility (same with modern systems to some extent). This on top of all the cost/size/battery life advantages. (and game library)
However, this has nothing to do with the main topic.
I've already made a comprehensive, if rambling response on the last page which actually brought up soem possibilities I hadn't fully considered before. (namely the stripped down Sega CD) The thing about the CD's added hardware fitting well in a 32x like package I've definitely addressed before though. (had the expansion port been more comprehensive that would have mattered far less, the CD's hardware could have been used more optimally, and there would likely have been no 32x)
If they had both units positioned to be complementary (which the CD and 32x were not, in rality), having the release only 1-2 years apart would matter much less, plus, a simpler CD could have been introduced sooner as I suggested above.
This is all hypothetical of the purest sort though, but I don't think entirely dependent on hindsight. The Sega engineers must have realized the limitations of the expansion interface and the problems with trying to use the added hardware in the Sega CD, and should also have realized that the Cartridge slot had almost all the necessary signals to utilize such an upgrade much more efficiently.
Again, I find it pretty ironic that Sega went through all the trouble of cramming the extra hardware onto a unit with an insufficient interface while NEC had a very comprehensive expansion poorly that they barely took advantage of. The PCE's expansion bus is better equipped than the genesis cartrige and expansion ports combined as it includes the VDP bus as well as analog video signals (so no mixing cable); in fact, they should have been able to make the superfrafx as an add-on rather than a standalone unit (or at least something very similar), yet they never added such even to the CD units (or integrated duo units), probably a big mistake on NEC's part. (especially given the CD was the preferred format)
This had been discussed to death as well, but regardless of the 32x, Saturn, or some mythical hypothetical console derived from and compatible with the Sega CD+Genesis: as things were for Sega in 1994 releasing the Saturn OR 32x would have been better than releasing both and probably better than releasing neither and skipping to DC. Now said hypothetical console (namely chilly willy's CD+geneiss saturn alternative) would probably have been better overall, but looking from a purely western market perspective, bypassing both and waiting a bit longer, going with a more powerful 3D oriented machine would have been best, in line with the DC, simple clean, powerful, perhaps SH3 based -of course less powerful due to being 3 years older. (a '95 JP/96 US/EU release)
The former option would probably be more attracted to SoJ though -SoA probably wouldn't have minded the backwards compatibility either though. (meaning new buyers could still get newer Genesis games too)
Yeah, at least Sega found some success with the Master System elsewhere. Some of the MS's 90's games are pretty damn good.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Yeah, the Game Gear really needed a redesign. I think 1995 should have been an appropriate time to of introduced such, with a sidelit screen and reduced to take something like 4 batteries, making it the size of the original Gameboy at least. Should it have been kept at the landscape design?Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
I really don't know about that suggestion. Seems clunky as hell and definitely wouldn't have been competitive. That probably would have killed Sega alot quicker than what really happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
I feel that 1992 would be too early for the 32x, sure at that point in time sega owned about 65% of the console market, but if the 32x costed $200 on launch day, then you would have to consider how much more it would have cost 2 years early because the hadware for Sega would have costed far more and to top it off the Sega CD was coming out that year, so two add ons at once? Are you mad? At a rate like that sega could kiss themselfs good bye. But i see where you are going with this, personally I think Sega should have done what they did but replace the sega saturn with the sega neptune that way if at the time you had a genesis you would have an option between the 32x or the Sega Neptune. :)
It didn't cost $200 - It cost $159, and came with $50 worth of coupons for money off certain 32X games.
Definitely landscape, but I maintain that the unlit/sidelit thing was just as feasible in 1991, either as the only model, or a companion model to the deluxe backlit version. (I'd wager the cheaper model with longer battery life and better out door lighting performance would have been the dominant model by far though)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper061992
Improvements would later be made regardless, like adding the sidelight if the initial model was unlit, or improving the diffusion of light for the side/front lighting.
See this thread for a detailed description and discussion: http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8497&page=3Quote:
I really don't know about that suggestion. Seems clunky as hell and definitely wouldn't have been competitive. That probably would have killed Sega alot quicker than what really happened.
The resulting evolutionary console should have been less rushed and more cost effective than the Saturn, though weaker in some ways (notably color depth), but at least capable of 3D graphics on par with late DOS games and contemporary mid-range PCs. (so 256 color rendering with flat shaded textures or simple shading -a la Doom/Quake)
It's not a hacked together Genesis+CD+32x, rather taking the strong points of the components of the Sega CD and Genesis, integrating the hardware and modifying interfacing to greatly reduce the inefficient usage in the normal configuration while adding some additional hardware and modification to work together properly. (namely dual VDPs combining video in various ways including 256 color palette modes and a modified Sega CD ASIC to address the double VDPs, some enhancements to better address texture rendering, possibly polygon rasterization, and maybe a math coprocessor -the SVP chip would fit that fairly well -with greater integration in later revisions of course)
The latter option (which the member ablackfalcon prefers) is a much cleaner, more advanced system for a slightly later release, and while not ideal for Japan, great for the west. (again, a clean, well planned design, like the DC with a similar timeline as the N64) I assume the "clunky" comment was in reference to the other console though.
Yeah, and it could have dropped to $100-120 pretty quickly, if not a bit lower (while not being dumped), with the Neptune possibly dropping to $150. Having so little RAM really hurt though, and the limited audio hardware didn't help -the Sega CD ended up getting a lot more support hardware... Even so, more RAM would have been the minimum (like 2MB) for the 32x/Neptune to have any chance as Sega's main 5th gen console.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy