Genesis/CDX/32X SCART to HDMI troubles (ugh!)

Let me preface this by saying that I hate being one of those guys whose very first post on a site is an "omg plz help meh!!11" plea, but I have actually been lurking here for quite a while, think this is an awesome community, and it was really only a matter of time before I signed up anyway (though I wish it could have been under better circumstances). Now, with that out of the way...

I recently got an RGB SCART cable and an upscaling SCART to HDMI converter to connect my Genesis/CDX/32X to my RCA LCD HDTV. I've seen such a setup recommended several times on this site for a TV like mine, so my question is, quite simply, "what the hell went wrong here?"

What results from my setup is an off-center "wavy" picture fixed at a 16:9 aspect ratio with colors that look nowhere near as vibrant as I expected. On my CDX, I'm even greeted with what I can only describe as RF-type noise on any solid black portions of the screen (the SEGA logo, etc.). On my 32X attached to a model 2 Genesis, however, the noise manages to be absent.

I know that most RGB SCART cables offer composite as well, and I know that the cable I got is indeed one of these varieties. The image itself essentially gives me the impression that I'm getting an RGB base picture (as evidenced by the clarity of each pixel) but with composite colors (evidenced by the less than vibrant colors and "wavy" edges), if that makes any sense. The waviness is less pronounced than it is going straight through composite, but is definitely noticeable up close.

Now, I've already contacted the Ebay store that sold me the converter and told them I want my money back (shitty seller by the way; I was actually sold the item even though it apparently wasn't in stock when I bought it), so obviously I need a different converter, but what about the SCART cable? Do you think the problems I've listed are more on the converter's end or the cable's?

For reference, here are the items:

RGB SCART cable

SCART to HDMI converter

Is anyone familiar with these specific items, and if so, how does your experience with them compare to mine? Better yet, can someone refer me to a specific SCART cable and HDMI converter that they know work perfectly well with LCD TVs?

I'd greatly appreciate any input into this matter at all. I was beyond excited to get this stuff, and finding myself at square one all over again has pretty thoroughly destroyed all of that. I'm even finding myself considering the SCART to YPbPr option, even with the unlikelihood that it will be compatible with my TV (as now I wonder if the fixed 16:9 aspect is a result of the converter or perhaps my TV assuming that any 720p signal through HDMI is widescreen only).

Sorry about the length of this (I'm trying to be thorough) and double sorry if this belongs in a different area of the forum.

Also, I could try to track down a camera to take some pictures if that would be desired.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I actually have a similar setup with my Dreamcast (VGA cable/non-upscaling VGA to HDMI converter) and it's worked great with no problems even vaguely similar to those mentioned above.

Pictures surely would help.

- Does it look like this ?
Click for full size

(Common SCART cable with composite and RGB output left, custom RGB only SCART right)

I've actually seen you post that picture before and unfortunately I don't have a cart version of Sonic 1 to test, but to an extent at least, yes it does.

If that's the case and I am getting both at the same time, is there any chance the cable I have can be salvaged by using a different HDMI converter? I've yet to come across an RGB only cable on Ebay.

I'll try to dig out a camera tomorrow and do some comparison shots.

I'd try a different SCART cable first: http://shop.ebay.de/i.html?_nkw=scart+mega+drive+2 (PM me if I should buy it for you)

And then a different HDMI converter perhaps: http://cgi.ebay.com/SCART-RGB-Video-...mZ330417904830


djshok posted some photos of his setup running here: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showpos...9&postcount=15 so I am sure we'll eventually track down what's causing your problems.

my first genesis scart cable had some serious problems with red colors bleeding on the screen

i picked up a scart cable from another site from england, and the results were much better (i also picked up scart cables for the snes and saturn here)

http://www.consolegoods.co.uk/

I actually ordered that SCART cable that you did and it seems to be working well. (It's from the aforementioned ConsoleGoods.co.uk).

My converter is a SCART -> Component. I had to manually switch the view mode on my TV to not stretch it to a widescreen.

I am guessing that you have a problem with the SCART to HDMI converter.

I have included pics of my setup, config, etc.
http://i40.tinypic.com/nwiob8.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/fw1z0i.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/50fm.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/j5cubs.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/o8taiw.jpg

Thanks for all the input.

After doing some comparisons, I'm not sure what to think. The differences in color don't appear to be as drastic as I thought, but the picture is brighter than I was expecting. I guess my real problem is with the noise and wavy/fuzzy quality of the picture, which definitely gives me the impression of a composite presence.

Here are the pictures. They're huge, but if you can't zoom out, I'll resize them.

This is the entire screen via SCART to HDMI (again, I can't change the aspect ratio):
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3194/1000932z.jpg

Here are the shots where I tried to get as close as possible and do direct comparisons (I also manually switched to "stretch" mode on the other sources to make sure that they were easier to compare)...

SCART to HDMI:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7686/1000933l.jpg

Composite:
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4562/1000940z.jpg

Emulator on Dreamcast via VGA to HDMI (what I was expecting the RGB to look like):
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5691/1000934e.jpg

I'm hoping you can see the wavy edges in the RGB pic, and the lack of them in the DC emulated version. Oddly enough, the composite image seems to have better and more vibrant color than my RGB cable. No wonder I'm convinced this thing looks like ass.

I also tried to capture that black noise crap I'm getting on my CDX:
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3764/1000939.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1052/1000938r.jpg

The second pic shows it a lot better (especially at the original size), despite the motion blur. That first one doesn't seem to show it at all when I view it on my monitor.

Also, for the hell of it, here's what this stupid converter does to my screen before I even turn on my console (normally the screen is blue and doesn't have a black bar off to the side):
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3897/1000936v.jpg

Am I just being too picky or what? Has anyone else experienced those wavy edges in RGB mode? I hate how it looks, but maybe that's just the way it is. I really don't know.

I've definitely going to get a different converter as I refuse to deal with an auto-stretched picture that isn't centered correctly, but once I return this thing, what I replace it with is mainly a question of money (I bled myself dry buying all this stuff, including a flash cart). That's why I'm considering trying that component converter, since even though there's a good chance it won't work on my TV, it'll be within the amount I get refunded.

Fuzzybam what are you using for a power supply on your converter? I have the same one but haven't used it yet as I don't seem to have a compatible supply for it.

This one: Sprint AC Adaptor Model AEC-N3512I
I got it from http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3580.0

What are the odds?

I have the exact same converter, the exact same back order story from the same seller, the exact same red screen instead of 'no signal', the exact same wideass resolution, and the same wavy off center picture.

Only difference being I'm using a Genesis 1 SCART cable, and my HDTV is a Vizio.

Hopefully I didn't throw my money away. Why is the converter displaying wide? Is that it's only resolution? Or does the HTDV think HDMI = HD?

^
Can't you manually adjust the viewing mode (stretch/wide/zoom/sidebar/normal etc.)?

I know you can with analog inputs, not sure about HDMI though...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clockwise

What are the odds?

I have the exact same converter, the exact same back order story from the same seller, the exact same red screen instead of 'no signal', the exact same wideass resolution, and the same wavy off center picture.

Only difference being I'm using a Genesis 1 SCART cable, and my HDTV is a Vizio.

Hopefully I didn't throw my money away. Why is the converter displaying wide? Is that it's only resolution? Or does the HTDV think HDMI = HD?

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No shit? Wow.

I sent a message to them saying that I wanted to return it and mentioned how unpleasant the experience has been, and this is the response I got:

Quote:

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Dear hughjassman,
I am sorry for this issue.
Please set the ratio of your TV to 4:3 and the off-center picture can be also adjust,if you don't mind,please refer to the user manual of your TV.
If it still doesn't work well,please get back to us,we stand behind our product and service.

Sincerely,
Carolyn

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I love that they just naturally assume that I didn't think of trying any of this on my own even though I told them that I "couldn't fix it", which generally implies that I did indeed try to fix it. I responded to them basically reiterating what I had already said, so I hope they get it this time.

My TV sees the resolution as 1276x720, so my guess is that not only does the converter upscale it to 720p, it also fixes it to a widescreen format. The only format options I get are "normal" (which will be 4:3 if the original image is 4:3), "full" (which is always 16:9) and "dot for dot". The first two give me identical pictures and the third gives me the same picture only not stretched to fit the screen (since my TV's resolution is 1080).

How long have you had the converter? The seller claims to accept returns for 30 days after you receive it as long as you pay for shipping. I'd email the seller and tell them that you're having the same problem as me. Maybe with more than one complaint they'll be forced to do something about it.

EDIT: Just got a new email saying they'll accept the return.

So normal and dot for dot don't work? You should get a 4:3 image which would be 640x480i. That is what my TV displays, but some games have a slight border and some don't.

But then again the wavy picture and that junk just sounds like a shit converter. My Sonic 1 is a little bouncy when I first boot up but then it's okay after that. I think it's honestly my Genny 2 or the carts are just trashed.

The HDMI converter upscales everything to 720p (it states that explicitly in the features), though, so really it should be 960 x 720. The component converter doesn't scale anything, right?

A cartridge should be fine as long as the contacts are clean, I believe. Hmmm... I was going to get that component converter like you have once I get my money back, but if that's kind of flaky too, I don't know. I'm also wondering if every other HDMI converter is going to fix the ratio to widescreen like this one does.

I had the exact same problems as the Assman with my SCART to HDMI converter on both of my Panasonic plasmas. The picture was cut off at the bottom, the picture was wavy, and I could not get the picture to not stretch (even when I used the forced 4:3 mode on both of my TVs). I exchanged it for a SCART to Component converter and finally got the results I wanted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Assman

The HDMI converter upscales everything to 720p (it states that explicitly in the features), though, so really it should be 960 x 720. The component converter doesn't scale anything, right?

A cartridge should be fine as long as the contacts are clean, I believe. Hmmm... I was going to get that component converter like you have once I get my money back, but if that's kind of flaky too, I don't know. I'm also wondering if every other HDMI converter is going to fix the ratio to widescreen like this one does.

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Yeah the component doesn't scale anything and I don't have any problems playing the games or anything at all. The games are beautiful once you start playing, but occasionally (and I've only seen this on Sonic 1) the screen has a jitter to it. All of the other games I have are fine (Altered Beast, Shining in the Darkness, Earthworm Jim, Flicky, etc).

Oh and about this component adapter being flaky, I don't think it is. I just have a weird thing with one game until I press start then it is okay. I don't know if it does this on the CSY2100 or not, but I didn't want to pay ~110 USD to get one of those puppies mailed over here from the UK and then try to find a power adapter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Assman

How long have you had the converter? The seller claims to accept returns for 30 days after you receive it as long as you pay for shipping. I'd email the seller and tell them that you're having the same problem as me. Maybe with more than one complaint they'll be forced to do something about it.

EDIT: Just got a new email saying they'll accept the return.

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Just got around to testing it yesterday, but I've had it for a week now.
Contacted the seller today, hopefully they will come through.
I'll post when once the seller responds.

For whatever reason it's impossible for me to set the picture to 4:3 from a signal that is 16:9 on this teevee. Stretching 4:3 to 16:9 is possible though.
Shame too the result would be great if it wasn't caramello'd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JFLY

I had the exact same problems as the Assman with my SCART to HDMI converter on both of my Panasonic plasmas. The picture was cut off at the bottom, the picture was wavy, and I could not get the picture to not stretch (even when I used the forced 4:3 mode on both of my TVs). I exchanged it for a SCART to Component converter and finally got the results I wanted.

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Could you post a link or reference to the component converter? Also does anyone have this SCART RGB Y-U-V converter?

That's the component converter I have (I also bought at CSY-2100) and it works great, but I had problems with the picture being too green/yellow (which is why I bought a CSY-2100) using that converter. I had to get someone to adjust the potentiometers for me to get the tint just right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fuzzybam

Yeah the component doesn't scale anything and I don't have any problems playing the games or anything at all. The games are beautiful once you start playing, but occasionally (and I've only seen this on Sonic 1) the screen has a jitter to it. All of the other games I have are fine (Altered Beast, Shining in the Darkness, Earthworm Jim, Flicky, etc).

Oh and about this component adapter being flaky, I don't think it is. I just have a weird thing with one game until I press start then it is okay. I don't know if it does this on the CSY2100 or not, but I didn't want to pay ~110 USD to get one of those puppies mailed over here from the UK and then try to find a power adapter.

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Okay, that's good to hear. I just don't want to end up in the same spot another week from now.

Looks like that component converter is the way to go then. I think I can deal with the color being a little off so long as I get a clear, stable, centered 4:3 screen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JFLY

That's the component converter I have (I also bought at CSY-2100) and it works great, but I had problems with the picture being too green/yellow (which is why I bought a CSY-2100) using that converter. I had to get someone to adjust the potentiometers for me to get the tint just right.

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Thanks JFLY,

Where did you get yours if I could demand? Found one but it doesn't look like they ship this side of the pond.

I got it from a Ebay seller from Australia back in February for around $90(US). Make sure you get this power adapter with it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clockwise

Could you post a link or reference to the component converter? Also does anyone have this SCART RGB Y-U-V converter?

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That's the one I have and it works well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JFLY

That's the component converter I have (I also bought at CSY-2100) and it works great, but I had problems with the picture being too green/yellow (which is why I bought a CSY-2100) using that converter. I had to get someone to adjust the potentiometers for me to get the tint just right.

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Is the CSY2100 noticeable better? I was debating on buying one but it was going to be about 130 or so USD to get it here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clockwise

Thanks JFLY,

Where did you get yours if I could demand? Found one but it doesn't look like they ship this side of the pond.

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Lektropacks will ship it to the US, but shipping is half the cost of the item as that was the only place I could find with it and willing to ship to the US. That's why I got the one on eBay for 45 bucks.

After having my knockoff converter color adjusted, I get the same picture quality as the CSY-2100. If you don't want to go through the hassle though, just spend the extra money and get CSY-2100.

I actually found a US TV with a SCART input today at work, so I am going to take one home and try it out... heh heh heh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fuzzybam

I actually found a US TV with a SCART input today at work, so I am going to take one home and try it out... heh heh heh.

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While you're at it check to make sure it has a proper RGB in on that port.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2h7fbjd.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/ae5yz7.jpg

Well I finally got to check out the US TV with a single SCART input. It is labeled as RGB per the former pics, but I hooked it up and took a few more.

Sorry for the quality, it was with my phone :(
http://i41.tinypic.com/29vpra.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/14tykb9.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/4r2fit.jpg

It looked awesome in person and I can't wait to figure out a way to get one of those TVs home. It has SVideo inputs, RGB and a VGA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fuzzybam

It looked awesome in person

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Funny how it somehow is impossible to catch the awesomeness of RGB on photo.

I just ordered this off ebay : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT Is it any good?

Where's you find that TV? I'll have to keep a look out for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Funny how it somehow is impossible to catch the awesomeness of RGB on photo.

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I think it shows it pretty well: sharp pixels and lack of smearing or (more importantly) dot crawl is quite apparent.

^ Yeah, but what I meant was that it doesn't look as good on photos as it does in person.

The biggest problem with my Genesis (and other SD inputs) on my HDTV is that they seem way more washed out than HD input. My Genesis was fairly dull and grey looking on my TV, and I didn't notice until I plugged it into a older CRT TV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Funny how it somehow is impossible to catch the awesomeness of RGB on photo.

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With a shitty iPhone anything is possible, including losing all the awesomeness of RGB :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Where's you find that TV? I'll have to keep a look out for that.

I think it shows it pretty well: sharp pixels and lack of smearing or (more importantly) dot crawl is quite apparent.

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There are about 100 of those TVs at my work. I am going to try and snag one for myself, but I will need to get creative on how to get it. I was trying to look them up online and I can find zero items about that Philips model, except that it was about 2000 USD brand new in 1995.

I'm curious: what were/are they used for at your work?

They were TVs in the classroom that, when bought, provided the ability to connect a computer via VGA (or S-Video) to the TV. The majority of them were purchased in 1995, iirc.

Wait, so there's VGA inputs too? It's an HDTV -or EDTV? (or does it automatically downconvert VGA resolutions to 480i?)

I can imagine why such a set would have been so expensive back in the mid 90s, those features with a big flat screen CRT display. If it stayed in production 6+ years later, I'd bet the price would have dropped a lot. (or did, if it stayed in production)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fuzzybam

Lektropacks will ship it to the US, but shipping is half the cost of the item as that was the only place I could find with it and willing to ship to the US. That's why I got the one on eBay for 45 bucks.

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Shipping was only 18 USD. 103 for the whole shabang, here in under a week.

@Assman did you get a refund yet?

Not yet. Unfortunately I just discovered yesterday that I screwed up the shipping address and it got returned. Fixed that and resent it so hopefully everything goes okay this time.

I take it you got the CSY-2100 then? How's that working out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Wait, so there's VGA inputs too? It's an HDTV -or EDTV? (or does it automatically downconvert VGA resolutions to 480i?)

I can imagine why such a set would have been so expensive back in the mid 90s, those features with a big flat screen CRT display. If it stayed in production 6+ years later, I'd bet the price would have dropped a lot. (or did, if it stayed in production)

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Yeah it has a VGA input and a VGA output. The max resolution it supports over VGA is 640x480, so I'd guess it is an EDTV. I can't wait until I figure out how to get one...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clockwise

Shipping was only 18 USD. 103 for the whole shabang, here in under a week.

@Assman did you get a refund yet?

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Maybe I was misquoted... Oh well. Enjoy it :)

Cool, I wonder if it supports true 480i (and 240p) as well as 480p. (opposed to most CRT HDTVs that upscale/deinterlace) That, and if it has 50 Hz support, or an anamorphic widescreen setting.
If it has all that, it would seem to be the ideal multipurpose gaming/multimedia TV/monitor for everything up to the Wii. (just not the 360 or PS3, though 480p isn't bad)