Playstation 3: $500 and $600 Packages

It seems to me Amy is saying everyone hopes Sony dies (in the video game realm...) just because I said it.

Yes Amy... I'M THE ONE WHO SAID THAT! Not everyone else. I DO hope Sony gets crippled by these choices they made (not fully dead, I'm realistic about what is economically possible. This wouldn't take Sony out of the market 100%). I just hope that they are crippled.

Call me fanboyish for this...

But hey, this is my opinion... with my wishes tacked on to the end. I explained "why" I think Sony will be crippled by this.

On top of that... I'M NOT A GAMER! Haven't been for years. I hang out at 3 retro gaming sites for nostalgia purposes.

As for any further explanation of myself to you... refer to Melf's post. He makes a very good point and I don't have the time. Need to get back to work.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it was you who threw out the term "bashing" first. I frankly don't see what you mean by "not tolerating opposing views," since I have never said that those who favor the PS3 or anything Sony are wrong, ignorant, etc. I'm expressing my views about the upcoming console generation, and that is what you seem to not understand. Bashing, praising, indifference; all are valid when discussing a topic. If you want everyone to think as you do, then you might as well talk to yourself, because in real life people have opposing views. .

Expressing your views in both a demeaning and derogatory way, is what you meant. I do not expect anyone to think like I do, I tolerate opposing views, but you as indicated by your statement, "Bashing the PS3 is not fanboyism, tolerating crap is" means that you don't tolerate opposing views and you are a judgemental. The opposing view being any sort of defense of an unreleased product. And tolerating crap before being released.

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Originally Posted by Melf

I'm not excited at all about the PS3 right now. Is that wrong? Should I feel bad because I'm not willing to run out and give Sony my money? Hell no. Sony has to convince me to buy their product, not the other way around. If they do in the next few months, then I'll buy one. At the moment, however, I don't see that happening. Why is that so hard to understand? Why am I considered a fanboy because I'm not interested in the PS3?.

It's not because your not interested, it's because your are confrontational and voicing your displeasure as fact. You have stated rudely your opinion as the truth, something not tolerated in debate.

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Originally Posted by Melf

The thing is, these developers have never really made a killer app, something people will go out and buy a system for. A few you mentioned haven't even made anything decent this generation and others, like Fumitsu Ueda have made brilliant games (I own and love both Ico and SotC), but both sold like shit. We're talking games that move consoles, and none of these guys really stand out on their own enough to do that.?.

The thing is, you called me out on my opinion of the best developers. I stated my opinion of the why the best developers were the best developers, and then you brought sales into the mix. What's more, system selling names don't mean as much as quality of games. A fumitsu ueda product, an incog inc. product, and a factor 5 product might not have name recognition, but together they form quality. These are developers with the highest of pedigree and the best of records. You could find one or two developers who are allstars in both the gaming world and gaming quality (such as Blizzard) but these developers are top of the line, and people will take notice.

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Originally Posted by Melf

I still don't see where people want Sony to die. Just because people aren't high on the PS3 doesn't mean they want them dead. Go to any forum, and the opinons are pretty much the same as they are here. .?.

Surely you understand how fickle the gaming world is. Everybody has an opinion on something, and oftentimes it's radical without a thought. I believe historigraphers will call our generation the radical generation because of that.

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Originally Posted by Melf

In fact, I'd say your rabid defense of Sony and sweeping generalizations are more fanboyish than anything posted here, but I'm trying to keep an open mind about this whole discussion. If you think that Sony setting a $600 precedent for launch consoles, while having almost no decent software to show at the media event THE WHOLE WORLD WAS WATCHING, with obviously tacked-on gimmicks to mimic the competition (I'm assuming that you know the motion sensor thing on the controller was implemented only weeks ago, and even high profile developers like Itagaki weren't aware of it), and two SKUs- the lower end of which is not compatible with Sony's own products- isn't enough to get people riled up, then I don't know what to tell you..?.

Again, THE WHOLE WORLD WAS WATCHING is not important. The whole world was NOT watching (only those involved with the gaming world, a very small minority of actual gamers). It was referenced a few times on television shows and magazine articles on general media, but aside from gaming websites and magazines it wasn't broken down significantly by anyone else.

Also, as I've said, I've had my criticisms, but people fail to consider things logically. Sony's "tacked on gimmicks" might be the future of entertainment. Just because Sony "stole" (again, in quotations, since Sony "stole" the analog stick and improved it by putting two on a controller) things doesn't mean they will turn out like crap.

Speaking of fanboyism, that's really the thing of why people are Sony hating fanboys. They think Sony steals, and because they steal they are evil. What they fail to mention is that Sony gets the third parties involved in their steal and they make off with usually a superior product. Is superior (and best) objective? Maybe not, but if you look at sales figures and amount of product and critical and public reception, then Sony IS superior.

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Originally Posted by Melf

And to say that E3 is insignificant...dude, are you serious? Prices and hardware are finalized, and this is the beginning of the season to market products for the all-important 4th quarter. What, do you think people want to walk into a store in November and just find the PS3 there, with no prior knowledge?..?.

Yes, E3 is the only event in which marketing comes into play. Please, every console is sold via commercials, via ads, via press events, via product placement, via critical reception. Also, Sony has lied before at E3, they could do it again. Nothing is finalized because of E3, just Sony's intention at the time (or misdirection, however you view it).

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Originally Posted by Melf

What if? What if? What if? You're arguing against what was seen with what might be. Several of my collegues at GotNext, who were at the show in person, were less than impressed with the PS3, and actually say that Nintendo had the best showing. ?..?.

Yeah, I viewed gamespot talking about it as well, they said that the PS3 videos looked incredible and that people would commit to buying it, y'know, gamespot, that website about games. What's more, my What If is just as plausible as your What If. Being that you haven't touched the controller or the console and you drew up your conclusions from an insignificant event in the world of finances.

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Originally Posted by Melf

See? This is fanboyism. Sequels on 360 =bad. Sequels on PS3 =good! MGS4 was only in video form, FFXII isn't even out yet and Square is already pimping XIII. Tekken got mixed reactions. This is what I meant about there not being much to what Sony showed gamewise.?..?.

I never stated sequels on the xbox 360 were bad. I called you crazy for stating that GTA 4 being on the xbox 360 will be the reason why the xbox 360 sells more than the PS3. And, you're using pre-determined judgements on games! Tekken is bad! FFXIII is going to suck because FFXII is not out! But Halo 3 footage will surely guarantee fantastic gameplay and everything else.

It's not fanboyism at all.

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Originally Posted by Melf

The bigger question here is: are gamers going to be willing to dish out $600 just to play these games? Kojima hinted towards the 360, and since the first two MGS games appeared on non-Sony hardware, I don't doubt MGS4 coming to the 360 at some point..?..?.

Further speculation that "will" happen. Kojima can hint, assume, do, shit, giggle, whatever for all I care. But right now, metal Gear Solid 4 is on the PS3 and it is as you stated "A system seller". Just like Tekken will be, just like Gran Turismo. All the same games that made the PS2 popular will be on the PS3.

As for my answer to your question: Yes, gamers will. Because Sony has a crack marketing team and a way of tieing in their products to other Sony products. Something you've ignored is that there will be a push for the first true lineup of BluRay players in Q3 2006. You don't think Sony will tap that?

Now, the thing you should understand by this point is that talk is talk. Sony can bring semantics into anything they want to. Now, as a consumer, Imagine this:

"The PS3 is not a device, not a console, but a media immersion center. Music, Movies, Wi-Fi, the Highest quality games, the successor to the DVD, and Sex. Who wouldn't want one? Your poor friend joe? He can get the cheaper version!"

Could all be bullshit. But it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Sounds to me like you already judged with this very sentence.

I should've clarified best. Pretty much the consensus highest seller, and best (critical) and most diverse array of games. I mean, I suppose we could compare the metacritic scores for all Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft games, but we don't need to.

I'm not in this for face time or for pointless arguments. I'm just against rabid fanboyism. The first sign is the deathknell of popular companies being pointed out before people have even touched the system.

Yes, I am critical, but I'm not sapped up by bullshit from either front. Nintendo Wii made an excellent demo piece. But how long will it take for us to tire from flailing our arms? How many Wii games are going to be gimmicks?

It's just semantics from everybody. Nintendo could say, "The innovative DS" and everybody would believe them. While innovative for many games, it also rescinded some genres and created problems for others. Is the ds innovative? Yes. Does it mean the end for everything else? Hell no.

Wii had the thing that was new and exciting and something that people had to try. I'm still convinced that it will be a great console (it is, in fact, the first next gen console I intend to buy) but I'm not convinced that it won't be without problems, that it won't deliver up to expectations.

Dynasty Warriors makes a great demo, doesn't make a great game.

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Originally Posted by AmyDoesn'tDouche

Expressing your views in both a demeaning and derogatory way, is what you meant. I do not expect anyone to think like I do, I tolerate opposing views, but you as indicated by your statement, "Bashing the PS3 is not fanboyism, tolerating crap is" means that you don't tolerate opposing views and you are a judgemental. The opposing view being any sort of defense of an unreleased product. And tolerating crap before being released.

It's not because your not interested, it's because your are confrontational and voicing your displeasure as fact. You have stated rudely your opinion as the truth, something not tolerated in debate.

I'm only going to respond to this part, since eveything else you posted is a valid argument about what's going to happen this console generation.

I really think you're tossing the word "fanboy" around without really considering what you're saying. I own both Playstations, have since each launched. I've bought a shitload of games for both and enjoy them greatly. How my dislike of what I've seen of the PS3 makes me a fanboy is beyond me. You said I was "rude." To whom exactly? Who would take my opinions of Sony's poor - and it was indeed poor - showing at E3 personal enough to call me rude? Who would consider it demeaning? To whom exactly are you referring?

My opinion is not fact, of course. I'm making my opinon based on what was presented at E3. You know, that show where the entire gaming community watches to see what's going to be the next big thing, where hardware support can be made or broken, and where momentum for console launches is created. I think you're wrong to discount its impact, but that's just me.

Again, I don't see how you can take this so personally and call me the fanboy. If you don't agree with my opinions, then present your own argument (which you did in that last post)., because your sweeping generalizations about people you know nothing about based on a difference of opinion comes off quite worse than anything I may have said.

I'm confused. At times I think Amy is a Sony fanboy, and at other times I get the feeling that it isn't.

I think everyone is over analyzing everything, but that's just me.

I think both sides of the debate should just shush now. This isn't getting anyone anywhere and everyone's said what they wanted to say.

Word. This isn't getting us anywhere, and I think Amy and I should just agree to disagree. Besides, we're getting off-topic.

Did Sony show Killzone 2 or The Getaway this year? I know it was debatable whether they were actually running off PS3s last year, but you'd think they would have them ready this time round.

It wasn't debatable, they absolutely were NOT running off of finished harware last year. They were target render videos.

They said straight up that they were target renders didn't they?

Neither game was shown this year, which was strange since Killzone was supposed to be a big title.

And, why that insane price, (both PS3 Packages are very expensive), is that the price of using Blue Ray technology?

Basically, yes. The system itself isn't leagues more powerful that the Xbox360.

A Killzone game was shown for PSP. It looked lame.

I wonder, will we see a repeat of the Sega CD? Releasing computer game hardware that is ahead of it's time and suffering for it has happened before and I get the feeling that people won't like Bluray much. Right now, it actually doesn't DO anything apart from play the Playstation 3 games; no other items use Bluray format at present, which has jacked up the price of the console for no other reason then to help duel Son'y little battle between Bluray and HD-DVD.

And how much are those discs going to cost? "Free" online sounds dubious to me, too. Either companies are going to set their own costs or ads are going to be plastered over it. My favourite bit of the entire E3 week was when they came out with that Kutagari interview where he said it's probably too cheap. Priceless. That and the whole "six degrees of freedom" thing.