These days? When weren't companies using cheap chinese components to some degree? (well perhaps not some early US electronics into the late 70s, but even the VCS had production moved to Hong Kong)
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These days? When weren't companies using cheap chinese components to some degree? (well perhaps not some early US electronics into the late 70s, but even the VCS had production moved to Hong Kong)
Once again, modern electronics have exponential amounts of mechanical strain compared to older ones. Newer electronics produce more heat, contain more parts, require smaller tolerances, etc. Comparing the NES to a PS3 in terms of reliability is like comparing a pedal car to a real car. LCD TVs are virtually a purpose-built computer compared to CRTs that are a tube and not much else. Old tube TVs used to go out all the time, too, the earlier ones actually were designed to have the tube replaced every few years. Also, modern computer optimization techniques didn't exist back then and thus everything had to be built with a higher factor of safety to keep them from failing right out of the box. It's not that old stuff was "made better", it's that it was exponentially simpler and everyone knows simple things tend to last longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SF78
Even if they were manufactured here, the basic components (resistors, capacitors, etc.) were all made in China since basically the start of common household digital electronics. In fact, I think the very concept of low-cost Chinese production is what spurred the mass market viability of digital electronics. I mean, I'm not an expert on where electronic components were made in 1970, but I don't recall ever seeing a capacitor that had "MADE IN USA" on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
I don't see "made in china" or "made in Japan" (etc) on most small discrete electronic components either, or even decent sized chips for that matter... Sometimes on the PCB, but usually only on the exterior.Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
I believe the PCBs, switches, microchips, and casings of almost all early home electronics in the US were domestically produced.
Domestic chip fabrication for sure, and it wasn't 'till a bit later that asian manufactures -especially japanese ones- started cutting in and indeed using some illegal business practices -namely price dumping. That was a huge issue over memory ICs in the 80s (namely DRAM) and Reagan ended up enacting legislation restricting importation (or adding heavy tax -I don't recall the details) due to unfair competition in the market: that led to a spike in RAM prices in the late 80s and didn't end up achieving the desired effect. (DRAM manufacturing ended up shifting almost exclusively overseas)
Unless I'm remembering that wrong.
But those are microchips, not discrete components, and I'm really not sure on the resistor/capacitor/transistor issue, and also not sure how things compare going back into the 60s or 50s. (a big chunk of vacuum tube manufacturing was most definitely domestic, into the 70s at the very least)
This is somewhat true, but the most common failure these days (on new hardware) seem to be bad capacitors. I know, because lately I have replaced several CHINESE ones to a pretty new LCD-screen. Almost all the electronic devices use this cheap no-name junk and you need to pay a premium to get better quality if you want your motherboard or monitor to last more than a year or two. But then again, I think modern components are meant to fail after the warranty is over. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
Not necessarily, I've seen many Japanese/Taiwanese (branded) capacitors on old computers/consoles. But then again, this was the good old times when all the good stuff came from Japan.Quote:
Even if they were manufactured here, the basic components (resistors, capacitors, etc.) were all made in China since basically the start of common household digital electronics.
Even if these components were made in China, there would still be some type of quality control to assure they get the job done. Unlike today when nobody gives a shit if your laptop/Xbox/whatever lasts for a year or not.
Remember as well, back when those computers were made only businesses and wealthy people had them. Now you can buy a functional computer for the price of a couple pairs of Nikes. Most people would rather save money up front than have a long life since technology becomes obsolete so quickly. For everything but game consoles I kinda feel the same way. IMO 5 years is about the most you should expect before an electronic device is obsolete in some way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SF78
There have always been affordable computers. Home computers started to take off in the late 70s with things like the Commodore PET, TRS-80, Apple I (kit), and Apple II (followed by Atari 400 and 800 in '79).Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
Of those, the Apple II and Atari 800 were the only really expensive ones, more so the Apple. (and the TRS-80 was initially the most popular, until about 1982 iirc)
Now, many were still fairly expensive if you take inflation into account, but so were game consoles of the time by comparison. (the Intellivision was exceptionally expensive when it launched at close to $300 in 1979)
The really low-cost VIC-20 came in 1981, the far more capable C64 the following year, and the Spectrum in Europe. (all the time contemporaries dropped in price and gained enhancements, like the Atari 8-bits) There was the Tandy CoCo as well. (and the expensive buisness oriented TRS-80 model 2, separate from the model 1/3/4 lines)
The original IBM PC was indeed expensive, though that changed after clones proliferated (by the mid 80s there were some fairly affordable PC compatibles).
Contemporary to those were some quite powerful machines, the expensive Macintosh, of course, the extremely cost efficient Atari ST, the advanced Amiga (still considerably cheaper than the Mac or PC and far more capable), then Apple's IIgs which did have several enhancements over the Mac with the graphics and OS (and extremely advanced sound) as well as Apple II compatibility, though a weaker CPU than the Mac. (considerably cheaper though, more expensive the ST, and relatively similar in cost to the Amiga, cheaper in some cases)
The ST and Amiga only really went mainstream in Europe though, while PCs proliferated in North America (and Japan had their own mix of machines), with ever more affordable and competitive PC compatibles.
For a rough overview there's this site: http://oldcomputers.net/
If you had to get down to it, it wasn't until the early/mid 80s that really affordable home computers became widely available, but that's still pretty damn early.
That's hilarious. What about freezer burn? Ron Popeil will be on this in a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by tz101
I think it's funny some people try to preserve the games by keeping them sealed, trying to stave off the inevitable ravages of time will not work. Or the idea that 100 years from now people will want to look at this stuff in a museum. I know people take pride in keeping stuff pristine but that's just batty.
I've imagined flipping out like Jeremy Piven in PCU on the sealed game collectors getting the box flaps all frayed while the manuals and carts are flying through the air. "GO TO SLEEEP."