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Hi there,
I've recently seen this Youtube video, explaining the benefits of using an RGB cable for the Mega Drive/Genesis, plugging it into an RGB to YUV converter (like the CSY-2100) to get a better picture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xxZ3j5uiM
I noticed that he was using an NTSC console for this video, and I was just wondering if anyone has tried this on a PAL console - Is there an improvement from normal RGB Scart?
Thanks!
There won't be any improvement, actually the opposite since in the TV the YUV is converted back to RGB. RGB is the best analog medium for video, YUV comes after that, then S-video and then composhit and then RF.
That converter is should only be used if your having probs playing on your MD on a HDTV via RGB scart.
If you're using a standard CRT tv, you will LOSE picture quality...
most TVs take RGB over scart same with flat panels.
you should just use RGB Scart.
Quote:
The Jackal:That converter is should only be used if your having probs playing on your MD on a HDTV via RGB scart.
If you're using a standard CRT tv, you will LOSE picture quality...
Any of you guys own an actual CRT TV with component video inputs?Quote:
TmEE :There won't be any improvement, actually the opposite since in the TV the YUV is converted back to RGB. RGB is the best analog medium for video, YUV comes after that, then S-video and then composhit and then RF.
RGB doesn't require component inputs.
If you're in Europe: RGB-SCART
If you're in the US: RGB-SCART to HDMI converter for HDTVs, RGB-SCART to component converter for CRT SDTVs (provided your TV has component in of course).
I just wanted to know if any of you europeans have really tried or seen an actual CRT TV with component video inputs,
I want to know in what you guys rely to claim about the loss in quality of the component video connection compared to RGB Scart, when using an RGB scart to YUV transcoder on CRT TV's.
RGB Scart is the best picture the MD can muster.
Upscaling to component is pointless on a SDTV as it won't do anything but lose picture quality.
People only use external upscalers for their HDTV sets because most don't support 240p - hence using the upscalers to bypass this issue...
Some US dudes and ladies use RGB to HDMI/YUV upscalers because US tvs don't have scart inputs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jackal
There are RGB scart to Cpmponent converters like the "Atlona" wich doesn't "upscale" anything, just takes the RGB 240p 15khz signal coming from the console and converts it into the same signal but with "YUV" values= 240p 15khz Component.
Megadrive by RGB Scart, and Megadrive by RGB scart Through RGB to Component converter (not upscaler) gives the same picture quality it doesn't matter what type of TV display you use.
OK, cool, I never knew there were non-upscaling RGB converters out there...Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitosoccer
Any conversion is going to degrade the picture quality, though. Not a noticeable amount, necessarily, but I think it's virtually impossible to end up with a 1:1 conversion.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitosoccer
This is not the same as converting S-video to RGB, both analog RGB and analog Component inputs are of the same quality, but achieved in 2 diferent ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assman
Dude, I never said anything about S-video. I'm well aware that RGB and YPbPr are similar quality signals; that's not my point. My point is simply that converting one type of signal to another will cause a loss in quality no matter what. It doesn't matter if what you're converting it to is just as capable or even more so, the simple fact that an active conversion is taking place is going to cause some amount of degradation. That's just the nature of the beast. Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it isn't there.
If you transcode from analog to digital to analog and from RGB to YPbPr to RGB you do loose something in the process. It won't be anything terrible though, and it without a doubt is still the very best solution when trying to hook up an RGB source to a CRT SDTV without RGB support.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitosoccer
The biggest difference between YPbPr and RGB however is the TV itself and how it handles both formats. I can't even change brightness, contrast or color saturation when my TV is fed with an RGB signal. It's just 100% pure RGB.
That being said, I wouldn't give a damn and probably be perfectly happy with a SCART to component converter for my CRT if RGB wouldn't be an option.
From what I can tell, his HDMI source pics are from some other guys TV and his camera, VS this guys TV and his camera. Not really an accurate measure.. at all. There are sooo many variables in that comparison as to why there are differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by whitespyderzero
Then there's also the fact even on the same TV, different filtering can and often will be applied to different types of inputs on the TV. It's highly dependent on the TV manufacture and even model version.
Converting it to component isn't going to "improve" it. But given the very low resolution depth of Genesis RGB out, I highly doubt it will even degrade it ( and even then, component analog can go pretty damn high in bandwidth per component signal ). I would also like to get a RGB to component converter without upscaling. Someday :/
Im not transcoding analog>digital>analog, its just analog>analog, im using a CRT TV with component imputs wich cannot handle digital component,Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
the RGB scart to YUV converter just takes analog RGB and "converts" it into an analog component signal ( I dont know if the term "convert" apllies here because is not really converting anything) Component is like a clever way RGB for outputing RGB colors, it uses less bandwith.
The RGB to component converter is mostly likely (99.999%) sampling the scaline to capture the RGB data and convert it to component output. I.e. done in the digital realm. I'm not sure how you'd convert the color space and signal any other way. And because there's no "clock source" in the signal itself, there's bound to be some artifacting from that process (digitizing the scanline). How much, I dunno. If one were to make a component converter setup just for the Genesis, they could use the clock line from the one of the internal sources of the system board (to tell where it's running 256 or 320 pixel mode) to get pixel perfect capturing (no artifacts from capturing at a different res than the source resolution).Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitosoccer
You don't need to do it digitally. Analog circuitry can perform adds/subs/muls/whatever and low cost, too.
If there's no scaling involved, I say that probably 99% of the convertes use an analog approach.
Also you don't have the explicit pixel clock signal on the board. (not, without doing some mods).
3x dual opamps, some accurate resistors, a sync separator and dual rail power supply = RGB to YUV (or YUV to RGB) transcoder.
Thanks very much for the helpful advice :)
Just realised that I never got around to getting an RGB cable for my Mega Drive (got them for all my other consoles but I missed this one for some reason...). I have one arriving tomorow hopefully, so that should be all my consoles RGB'd up and looking gorgeous :)
Hi everyone,
I've recently bought a SCART to HDMI converter, called HDV-8S, but it introduces horrible input lag, therefore being useless with my good ol' MD.
Anyone having this CSY-2100 could share his input lag tests, and in case if there are any visual issues introduced with this setup?
Thanks! :)
Im finding that a hdtv wired up with scart gives a great image quality but it is clear to see close up that the image is refreshing many times faster than on a crt tv where the slight judering is undetectable.I have discovered this is due to hdtvs not being good with 15htz.I have considered buying an rgb to component but reading this makes me doubt even this will solve my issues.I will probably buy another crt tv with RGB scart because its doing my head in.Hopefully this might help someone out there.
In my experience if you have a sega megadrive get a crt tv and an RGB scart if image quality is everything to you hdtvs suck.