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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomguy
Really? Which God? Not all beliefs encompass a heaven and hell. I don't think you have to subscribe to a religion to believe in paranormal/ghosts/aliens. When you think about it there could be creators of creators of creators and so on.
Yes it does from what i understand not everyone who dies is supposed to turn into a ghost otherwise we would be swamped by the bloody things so where do the rest of the people that die go? the moon?Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOM2040
And lets not get into which god nonsense, just a god any will do.
It doesn't destroy science, man. It MIGHT lead to revisions of conclusions about human ancestry, evolution, etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOM2040
But this is like saying that every new scientific discovery (that contradicts a previous conclusion) just suddenly destroys science. For example, NASA has found more water on the moon than they assumed existed there. So now we know; that's all. Conclusions are revised and that's just how it works; It doesn't mean science has crumpled to the ground. :D
ALSO:
UFOs explained, from N.Y. to Texas
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...om-ny-to-texas
This debunker article is less-than-convincing (to me at least), but there's a lot there, including a couple UFO videos that I put in my most recent couple posts
Absolutely if every time we learn something new you think that science is wrong and just crumbled to the floor there is something wrong with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecco
I was being sarcastic for one. Also, I'm simply mentioning that the institution of science revolves around people telling you what is what, you going around believing it, then it changing, thus basically living permanently in false belief. Great way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by doomguy
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Originally Posted by Metallica Man X
@Metallica: I have definitely got a history with this place. The ex owner's husband died while he lived here and made the closet doors make this loud crack sound, and kept opening the doors to the place and unscrewing light bulbs. Weird but totally I am telling the truth. I know a few tips and tricks when dealing with "extra planar things" so I was able to take care of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecco
Kid has what he calls "night terrors" and yes he has a huge flair for the dramatic, but I think we took care of those too (due to his huge sense of insecurity socially, sheesh).
@Ecco, I disagree, I watched the news and that was not a flare or parachuters-- I missed this but have seen other things around here, too. My wife saw a silver orb while we were driving, so I missed that WHILE I was driving. There is a lot happening on the mountain range here (Franklin Mts).
Also the military has a huge presence here and they get scrambled quite often to go chase things in the sky. I *did* witness a chase once, they were after a small light that apparently was hanging around and was larger than a bird. It evaded them easily but they stayed after it.
In every place I have ever lived there have been "notable events" concernign this or that. I even had a phantom me happen twice.
I had been going a routine of working nights, and would routinely drive up and park the car at a certain time. One day I took longer, but Phantom Me didn't wait. It woke up the dogs and they expected me to come in but there was never anything. I arrived about 20 mins later :D
Science is exactly the opposite of what you claim it is. There is no one telling you what is what. Each and every single scientific discovery is evaluated by the international scientific community.Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOM2040
A news story such as the one you quoted however, is not.
And again, if new scientific discoveries are made these are evaluated again. (This is even mentioned in the news article you linked to.)
- Thus science is constantly improving while religion is not. Religion is exactly what you claim science would do.
^Oh. I did take it at face value so I thought u really were saying science was decimated by this little tooth that they found. :D (There are, of course, plenty of people with such convictions & arguments, who will latch onto a quirky fossil or animal, and argue that it disproves science, or evolution, etc.)Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOM2040
Also, I understand ur criticisms of science to an extent, but I think it's a bit much to say that science leads people to live in false belief. The best approach IMO is to trust science as offering the best guesses / assumptions possible, based on what hard evidence is available. Any scientific conclusions / assumptions are never completely concrete in the 1st place; So indeed no need to fully believe every little thing that comes out of the field... Really every scientific "fact" & assumption should be taken w/ a grain of salt, but still trusted as the best conclusions possible at that time, with available evidence...
Just trust science with a grain of salt (& independent thought), no false beliefs needed. :)
More from the article...Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOM2040
If this even turns out to be Neanderthal, how is the time-line 'approximation' (yes, that's all it is) damaged?Quote:
... analyses of skull remains would more definitively identify the species found in the Israeli cave, Mellars said.
And even if this did somehow turn out to be a true modern human, it would not disprove the following:
- Biological evolution
- Human evolution
- All humans being descended from African populations
Interesting enough, it would weaken this paranormal/supernatural claim:
- The Christian, and Islamic, 'creation' (a.k.a. magical-poofing-of-all-we-know-into-existence) time-line of about a ~6,000 year old earth.
^Huh, his night terrors are linked to social insecurity?Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanallan
^Ha yeah, I was being sarcastic. :D I don't buy the excuse of stunt planes & parachuters. If u watch the video of the UFO's in El Paso, it really appears unexplainable. If u then watch the video of the parachuters with flares, it clearly is not the same thing as the video of UFO's. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by nathanallan
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanallan
^When I was about 12 there was a similar sighting by me and my fam in the same car, on the highway. We saw a very quintessential silver disc UFO. All 3 of us saw it, for probably almost 10 min. We couldn't tell if it was hovering in one spot, or moving, because our car was moving on the highway the whole time. Eventually the trees alongside the road got too high and blocked our vision of the object. Also far from the object, I noticed a few black helicopters that seemed to be flying in the direction toward the disc. (Black choppers are a common element in UFO reports & mythology.) Anyways that truly happened years ago; u can blame it all on experimental government aircraft. :D
Not sure why when I talk bad about science that it has to be compared with religion and that I must be doing it to be fighting against the science and fighting for religion. You guys might want to open your brains up a little(LOT) more. Below are the comments from the bone you up the ass with atheism when you are clearly not asking for it. Why do you guys care soo much what people believe? I don't get it.
Also, to doomguy, I know atheists that believe in ghosts, which disproves your arguement about needing to believe in god to believe in paranormal.
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Originally Posted by E.J.
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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
@Ecco, So far as I can tell yes, his 'night terrors' are from social insecurity-- lemme tell ya, he puts a LOT of faith in being socially acceptable and what people think of him. But after that episode I am not so sure, so I'll ask and see if he is still having things happen.
It's funny, if he knew that I was posting about this stuff he'd be mortified.
~Flares, aha, okay, got it. Didn't catch your sarcasm (but then I had just gotten told I was dumb for wanting a 5.25" disk drive for my ST, sheesh). I must have been in a mood.
Oh ok. Just wondered. I hadn't heard of night terrors being linked to social insecurities but it makes sense. Also he need not be mortified as it's all anonymous chit chat. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanallan
Well it is a good point. Sure there are atheists out there who believe in spirits etc., but I'd assume that MOST believers in spirits & paranormal would ALSO believe in (some kind of) God & some kind of afterlife. Why? Because it follows logically, if u believe in spirits, then there must be afterlife for our spirits (once we pass away); and also, if u believe in spirits, then you'll probably believe in some kind of God as the source of our spirits etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by doomguy
Of course, if u believe in spirits and the paranormal, it can also be impossible to reconcile with some interpretations of some religions. Some Christians for example are convinced that no spirits or ghosts exist, apparently, because all human souls go straight to heaven or hell. (Or purgatory, if ur one of the Christians who believes in purgatory also; I think it's a Catholic belief.) Such folks will say that the only "ghosts" that we encounter on Earth are NOT human souls, but instead only demons or angels... The Bible appears chock-full of stories about ghosts & spirits, but some say there are NO spirits in the Bible, technically, they're only demons or angels... :daze: It just sounds like a technicality to me. :D
I'm a scientist. I don't believe in ANYTHING. I only accept items as possibility of fact based upon the evidence provided, as tested through the scientific method (minus most of the crappy peer review tho, as that has shown to have actually stifled a lot of solid theories as they don't match the status quo).
With that said, there is a lot of evidence to support the paranormal idea. Exactly what it is is open to debate. It could be spirits of people trapped between here and some of afterlife, it could be the physical energy of a person who died that's attached to an object (Edison hypothesized, we all make an energy impact on the objects around us, so it's possible that the "ghosts" are actually just echoes of strong energy fields from formerly living beings), it could even just be people from another dimension are somehow partially stuck in this dimension, or any number of other things.
Any which way you look at it, there is enough evidence to support that there is something fishy going on in many places. Exactly what it is as yet to be explained as there have been no real serious scientific studies done. This subject is taboo for any big name mainstream scientists to touch for some odd reason.
I myself have been working on equipment that could provide tons of new evidence towards explaining the spook phenomenon.
One such item is my soundless microphone...it's basically a radio receiver that detects electrical fluctuations within the "audible" Bandwidth (radio frequencies ranging from 50 hz to 25 Khz). This device exists to test the whole EVP effect. Since apparently nobody can physically hear the sounds that are captured in recorders, the sound must be on a bandwidth that's within our hearing range (otherwise it wouldn't be captured with regular recording gear), but in the radio/electrical realm as it vibrates only the equipment.
A good example is the power in an electrical socket. The electricity is vibrating 60 times per second, which is within our hearing range, but we cannot hear it because the electricity is what's vibrating. If you were to hook a speaker to it, however, you then could hear it. This device can pick up that vibration without a physical hook up...so power in any given building where this is being used will have to be turned off to keep the electrical sound pollution minimal.
They key now is to find some "haunted" locations to test it..and also get some time off from work to go do that lol.
More data gathering and actual scientific work must be done if this is to ever get even a decent hypothesis, let alone any theory to explain it. Right now, everything is just speculation based upon minimal evidence at best.
I hear ya about getting time off to do it. Here is a site index of haunted sitesx in your listed state of Wisconsin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallica Man X
http://www.hauntedwi.com/WIXhauntedlocations.htm
Happy hunting :)