Review of Retro Gamer's 32X "Retroinspection"

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Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

32X launchCosmic Carnage looks like it could run on a stock Genesis. There is an older Sega arcade game that looks better than it. As for the the addons uhm how did the Turbo CD Rom fare in the US? Oh yeah it BOMBED. And what about Kalinske's thrashing the N64 because it used carts, then in the same interview praising the cart based 32X. If that wasn't an oxymoron then IDK what is. 3rd parties weren't committed to the cart format that the 32X depended on. That is probably one reason why the 3DO had better 3rd party support than the Jaguar.

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The CD format was a success for the TurboGrafx-16 and although it launched within a year of the console itself, it was still supported right up until the Turbo line was discontinued altogether. The Turbo CD format lasted five years, or roughly a generation. If not being the number one console sales wise equals failure, then the Turbo brand did indeed fail. But the only limit to the success of the add-on was the console it was adding to, not the add-on itself. In the market it was designed for, the PC Engine and the add-on format did much better than the Mega Drive/Mega-CD/32X.

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The 32X had a better launch than the Saturn and stayed ahead until SEGA killed it to FORCE people to buy the more expensive Saturn. Instead we switched ships. Add-ons HAVE been successful, regardless of how the nay-sayers whine. The CD add-on for the PCE was FAR more popular than the PCE ever was.

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You go on about the truth , how about you told the truth over the Saturn ?. SEGA did send out development kits in 1994 to 3rd parties and SEGA didn't kill the 32X, the market and consumers did , after they woke up to what a waste of space and waste of everyone time the unit was .

Its all very well being a fan of a system , but coming up with myths and distorting what happens severs no-one , the 32X was an add-on too far for the Mega Drive

See, Team Andromeda, that's where you go horribly wrong in this thread. It is one thing to hate add-ons and not be able to see all of the facts that support their validity. But accusing others of crafting myths and distorting facts puts the burden of proof squarely on you. You don't know how the 32X was selling when Sega canned it, but we DO know that Sega canceled the 32X by summer of 1995. We also know that Sega and a few third parties could have kept right on with a modest release schedule through 1995 and into 1996 without adding more cost than they would have seen in returns.

These are not myths, multiplatform releases do not cost as much as exclusives or first generation titles. Once developers have a working game engine the porting process can be an overnight project by one programmer in 1995 terms. Granted, everybody would want to see the games more optimized than that, which is why I brought up middleware/dev kits a page or two ago.

Bottom line (since the anti-add-on folks don't seem to be reading) keeping the 32X on the shelves and releasing games every month would have only generated revenue and profit for Sega and whatever third parties opted in.

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See, Team Andromeda, that's where you go horribly wrong in this thread. It is one thing to hate add-ons and not be able to see all of the facts that support their validity. But accusing others of crafting myths and distorting facts puts the burden of proof squarely on you. You don't know how the 32X was selling when Sega canned it

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Try yes . You see I know for a fact that SEGA sent out Saturn development kits to 3rd parties in 1994. Ok not in the greatest numbers but they did and so that is one myth that can be blown apart , along with the silly notion that SEGA America didn't know or we kept in the dark about the Saturn, anothet myth that can be blowen apart since SEGA Amerca were the 1st ones to show off the console and Saturn footage

The 32X was selling like crap when SEGA canned it, that's the reason why they canned it . You could walk in to any shop and see the 32X given minimal space (if any) and heavily discounted it was clear as day the systems was doomed mere months in, like it was for the Jaguar , the Neo Geo Pocket, Virtual Boy, CD 32 (a system which sold way better than the 32X) , CDI, 3DO hell even the HD-DVD ECT. You don't get major retail to support your product with it prime space and you can kiss good-bye to it, not matter how much support the hardware manufacture tries to support it.

Retail didn't want it and 3rd parties moved on to the real deal 32bit production that left SEGA West whole next gen plans were left in smoke. In the 16 bit days and 8 bit days with minimum development costs , production times and R&D budgets you could get away with it , not when it came to 32 Bit production and when you had a massive corp like SONY coming into town to play .

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the PC Engine and the add-on format did much better than the Mega Drive/Mega-CD/32X

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I'm sure the Mega CD sold more units , had the number of better games and the higher number of million plus selling games . I would put to you only in JAPAN did the system do well and even in there it's successful was limited .

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Try yes . You see I know for a fact that SEGA sent out Saturn development kits to 3rd parties in 1994. Ok not in the greatest numbers but they did and so that is one myth that can be blown apart , along with the silly notion that SEGA America didn't know or we kept in the dark about the Saturn, anothet myth that can be blowen apart since SEGA Amerca were the 1st ones to show off the console and Saturn footage

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Dude, you get too wound up over things. SoA being in the dark about Saturn development was implied by the Retrogamer article and postulated by me in this thread. Once we knew that SoA new the Saturn would launch in 1994 as early as May 1994 we also knew that Sega had plenty of time to scrap the 32X before it went too far into development and marketing.

We discussed this already, nobody is propagating that SoA went through the whole summer not knowing the Saturn would launch that year in Japan.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

The 32X was selling like crap when SEGA canned it, that's the reason why they canned it .

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You are going to have to show this, find the sales figures or a quote. Because if it the 32X tanked at some point, I'd like to know when that was. Being from the UK I am not surprised at all that you are adamantly against the MD add-ons, they cost a freaking fortune over there and Edge in particular made damn sure to bash them every month. But seriously, even Sega hardware can't go from a blockbuster launch to no sales in a few months, it just doesn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

You could walk in to any shop and see the 32X given minimal space (if any) and heavily discounted it was clear as day the systems was doomed mere months in, like it was for the Jaguar , the Neo Geo Pocket, Virtual Boy, CD 32 (a system which sold way better than the 32X) , CDI, 3DO hell even the HD-DVD ECT. You don't get major retail to support your product with it prime space and you can kiss good-bye to it, not matter how much support the hardware manufacture tries to support it.

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The 32X shared the same retail space with the Jaguar and 3DO, which makes sense because it was always going to be a niche market in an interim generation anyway. What you saw had to be after summer of 1995 though, as it would completely negate all of the Brits who complain about how expensive the 32X was.

I saw the 32X discounted to $100 by February 1995 in some shops, which is yet another reason why I don't give any validity to the "too expensive" argument. But the mail order catalogs in US magazines didn't list it that low until after the Saturn launch in May. I've shown these figures before.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Retail didn't want it and 3rd parties moved on to the real deal 32bit production that left SEGA West whole next gen plans were left in smoke. In the 16 bit days and 8 bit days with minimum development costs , production times and R&D budgets you could get away with it , not when it came to 32 Bit production and when you had a massive corp like SONY coming into town to play .

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This is all speculation, and some of it doesn't make any sense. Sega took the time and R&D to release Kolibri, Virtua Fighter, and Spiderman Web of Fire on the 32X after the company had canceled the unit. All they had to do is port over a handful more Saturn titles along the way, and Akklaim could have done the same, and presto, PR disaster averted.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

I'm sure the Mega CD sold more units , had the number of better games and the higher number of million plus selling games . I would put to you only in JAPAN did the system do well and even in there it's successful was limited .

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Well yeah, the Mega CD and Sega CD remained at retail for at least three years, of course it sold more units and had higher selling games. This is the entire discussion up to this point. IF Sega didn't scrap the 32X instantly, they needed to leave it on the market and support it with whatever its small market could bare for as long as there remained a significant market to support. They also needed to clear up the internal confusion about what the 32X and Saturn were to be and stick to the original plan, which the EGM articles I posted on the previous page explains in detail. There was NOTHING wrong with the original plan. If anything killed 32X sales early it was published industry rumors that Sega was going to drop the 32X, which happened exactly like it would again with the Dreamcast.

Sheath you give the average consumer way to much credit. Yes you and I knew what Sega was trying to accomplish with the 32X. That doesn't mean that EVERYBODY else knew what Sega was trying to accomplish with the 32X. You are well aware of the Saturn's much maligned launch so I have to ask you did the 32X hinder or help the Saturn?

Neither, the 32X cancellation made Sega look worse than its competitors though. Instead of upstart Sony having to deal with the "Big Corporation that'll drop a product at the drop of a hat" image, Sega gave it to themselves.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Neither, the 32X cancellation made Sega look worse than its competitors though. Instead of upstart Sony having to deal with the "Big Corporation that'll drop a product at the drop of a hat" image, Sega gave it to themselves.

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How do you say neither then you state that the cancellation made Sega look bad. That would mean it did hinder the Saturn.

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Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

How do you say neither then you state that the cancellation made Sega look bad. That would mean it did hinder the Saturn.

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That would mean Sega's management at the time hindered the Saturn. The 32X itself did nothing directly to Saturn development or marketing, at least nothing more than the Genesis did. This really should be obvious since the Saturn's early/surprise launch is universally accepted as a bad move.

I'd say the 32X did hinder the Saturn development and launch, at least indirectly. Pretty much every 32X game from 1994 to fall of 1995 could have instead been developed for the Saturn and released as a Launch title, thus giving the Saturn a stronger launch line up against the PS1.

People like to talk up DOOM on the PS1. Could you imagine the impact of Saturn having it's own version of DOOM at launch that was done by id Software themselves, and used the PC versions music?

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Originally Posted by sheath

That would mean Sega's management at the time hindered the Saturn. The 32X itself did nothing directly to Saturn development or marketing, at least nothing more than the Genesis did. This really should be obvious since the Saturn's early/surprise launch is universally accepted as a bad move.

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The 32X is a Sega product that had resources poured in it. If it wasn't hindering the Saturn, then SoJ wouldn't have had it canned. Remember Sega wasn't like Sony or MS companies that had virtually unlimited amounts of resources. They were just like Nintendo.

You keep missing the fact that the 32X was the only thing to keep Sega's revenue from dropping in 1994. What resources were they going to use exactly if the 32X was never released? Do you think the Japanese government would have lent them the millions they needed to stay competitive?

As for the 32X library being released on the Saturn instead, I call bull on that. System launches create unique games that otherwise wouldn't exist. Doom was a timed exclusive for PS1, or at least almost definitely was. Stellar Assault is basically a totally different game on the Saturn. Tempo is also. Virtua Racing is also. Any game they wanted to bring to the Saturn they could have with minimal effort, but they chose not to.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Dude, you get too wound up over things. SoA being in the dark about Saturn development was implied by the Retrogamer article and postulated by me in this thread. Once we knew that SoA new the Saturn would launch in 1994 as early as May 1994 we also knew that Sega had plenty of time to scrap the 32X before it went too far into development and marketing.

We discussed this already, nobody is propagating that SoA went through the whole summer not knowing the Saturn would launch that year in Japan.

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You're never going to get through to him - TA has a special hate for the 32X that filters all his perceptions about it. We can publish every fact with references and he just sticks his fingers in his ears and yammers his special blend of lies even louder. Which is weird because it's the only area he's like that. I agree with a lot of TA says in other areas, but on the 32X, he's got a strange fixation on his own idea of what happened that no one can change.

Eh, I know there are people who will never change their opinions, actually most people are like that. I'm doing this to try to refine my own view of the period so I can write about it better when I am sufficiently motivated. Also, for the lurkers' sake, I hope anybody who disagrees with the media generated narrative about all of Sega's consoles posts their thoughts that are supported by facts.

I don't understand how something like this can be argued for 30 pages, I'm sure you guys just want to be different or something. ;)

If Sega wanted to increase revenues in 1994 they should've focussed more on Mega Drive, dumped more SVP games on the system, revised the Game Gear, or not got themselves into the position where they'd screwed up the Mega CD. Compromising their Saturn future for the sake of some crappy short-lived interim sales during 1994 is not good business.

Seriously, what the hell is the point of the 32X?! I don't even understand what they were aiming for with it as a product, Mega Drive already had an add-on on the market which had a respectable userbase in the US, that could do nice pseudo 3D, was completely under-utilised, and used CDs which were a much better business model, there's no point for the 32X' existence at all.