Wow... gamers are dumb.

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Originally Posted by OldSchool

What's hard for me to accept is the fact that I have to endure mediocrity in gaming specifically because of the mindset of individuals like you.

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What's abundantly clear in this thread is how completely subjective "mediocrity" is.

I'm sure a lot of the issues that you're complaining about could be solved with another few weeks of development time, but I'm sure every game out there has a limited budget, not to mention deadlines. Most developers out there would probably like their games to be absolutely perfect, but there comes a time when it's "good enough."

But here's my main point: you're "old school," aren't you? Don't you remember how buggy the NES was? How about all the slowdown on the SNES? The muddy graphics of the Genesis? The N64 and PS1... they were a mess, weren't they?

Every generation has its problems. And, believe it or not, some incredibly fun games can be released that aren't perfect. It takes a certain amount of maturity to accept that - so are you up to the challenge? (your other bitchy threads say "No" but who knows...).

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Originally Posted by OldSchool

Come in here and call me an Elitest all you want. I've said my piece, and now I feel better for having called out all of the half ass gamers. :o

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Sigh...

I know every one has a right to an opinion, but I really don't think you're entitled to yours. Where on earth did you get this sense of entitlement? And why is it that the rest of the people that can view the finished product as a whole are "half-assed," when in-fact they are actually superior to people like yourself?

You really need to grow up, or just get out of gaming completely. Pick one or the other and spare us stupid threads like this.

I personally think the term "gamer" is rapidly going the way of the dodo.

Gamers used to be a thing because not everyone gamed, or continued to game. But now, saying gamer is a lot like saying "movie buff"; everyone plays games just like everyone watches movies. Now it's more rare to run into someone who DOESN'T play a video game of some sort, whether it's on their phone, or their Wii, or PC, or Xbox, or Nintendo DS. Gaming is so completely integrated into entertainment that the term "gamer" automatically means "hardcore gamer". And the hardcore gamers are being rapidly outnumbered, much like movie buffs were outnumbered by crowds who will buy into anything, watch anything that is thrown at them, and make no assertions about it's content or quality.

Video games are Hollywood now. They just keep throwing shit against the wall to see what will stick. If it works, if it sells millions, it's copycat time, sequel time. No care is required, no effort made simply because the average consumer can't tell the difference between a triple A title and a bargain bin disaster. Much like movies however, you have a few outstanding directors who will continue to pump out quality material, and a few companies who maintain a strict level of quality control, and ensure they continuously pump out a good product. On the other end of the spectrum, you have the independent developers who are not restricted in the types of content they can produce, but whose product will usually only appeal to a niche market.

As far as "keeping gaming standards low" goes, this is unavoidable. Just like they keep spewing out poorly made bullshit in Hollywood, so will it happen in the gaming world. It's not worth getting upset about, this is just the way things are going, and it is only going to get worse.

I agree that the word gamer is just pointless now but saying the average person cannot tell if something is good or bad is pretty funny, do people buy things just because it sounds or looks cool? yes and you should too. I think most people can tell if they are watching a bad movie and most people can spot crap just from the trailers i think.

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Originally Posted by Phosis

I personally think the term "gamer" is rapidly going the way of the dodo.

Gamers used to be a thing because not everyone gamed, or continued to game. But now, saying gamer is a lot like saying "movie buff"; everyone plays games just like everyone watches movies. Now it's more rare to run into someone who DOESN'T play a video game of some sort, whether it's on their phone, or their Wii, or PC, or Xbox, or Nintendo DS. Gaming is so completely integrated into entertainment that the term "gamer" automatically means "hardcore gamer". And the hardcore gamers are being rapidly outnumbered, much like movie buffs were outnumbered by crowds who will buy into anything, watch anything that is thrown at them, and make no assertions about it's content or quality.

Video games are Hollywood now. They just keep throwing shit against the wall to see what will stick. If it works, if it sells millions, it's copycat time, sequel time. No care is required, no effort made simply because the average consumer can't tell the difference between a triple A title and a bargain bin disaster. Much like movies however, you have a few outstanding directors who will continue to pump out quality material, and a few companies who maintain a strict level of quality control, and ensure they continuously pump out a good product. On the other end of the spectrum, you have the independent developers who are not restricted in the types of content they can produce, but whose product will usually only appeal to a niche market.

As far as "keeping gaming standards low" goes, this is unavoidable. Just like they keep spewing out poorly made bullshit in Hollywood, so will it happen in the gaming world. It's not worth getting upset about, this is just the way things are going, and it is only going to get worse.

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That's basically a perfect comparison, however there is one differance, in no time in movie history was there really a high standard(more good movies might've came out in any given year, but it was completely random), with Video games, there was most deffinitely a standard.

A better comparison would be how the moves don't make/use models anymore, everything is done by CG(which is cheap, and in every case but one, looks fake as all hell).

Note: I'm talking about quality control in general here, which is really low in the gaming industry(not just some graphic flaws).

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Originally Posted by doomguy

I agree that the word gamer is just pointless now but saying the average person cannot tell if something is good or bad is pretty funny, do people buy things just because it sounds or looks cool? yes and you should too. I think most people can tell if they are watching a bad movie and most people can spot crap just from the trailers i think.

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I don't know how things are in the UK, but in America people play a lot of bad video games and watch a lot of bad movies.

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Originally Posted by kokujin

I don't know how things are in the UK, but in America people play a lot of bad video games and watch a lot of bad movies.

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So true, it makes me sick(which is why I never pre-order a game these days, unless it says ATLUS, and I wait until movies end up on DvD before I watch them, so I can tell if it sucks before buying/watching it).

Hey, anybody else remember this thread?

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10552

:lol:

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Originally Posted by old man

Hey, anybody else remember this thread?

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10552

:lol:

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:rofl:

I knew this felt familiar.

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

Regardless of what the frame rate is (60, 50, 30, whatever), it's still one single frame each 1/x time period. Say it's 60 Hz progressive. That means the console displays 60 distinct frames each second. If you go with triple buffering, all you are doing is ignoring those frames generated that do not fall on a vblank period. Say a game runs at 180 FPS - on a 60 Hz TV with vsync and triple buffering, you are showing one frame, skipping the next two frames, then showing the fourth frame, skipping the next two frames, then showing seventh frame, and so on. They are never seen in any form at all.

Now if you don't use vsync and simply flip the buffer, the TV has time to show part of the first frame, then part of the second frame, then part of the third frame, all in the first frame displayed on the TV. So you get tearing at each place a new buffer appears, but you at least get to see some of those frames instead of all of one and nothing of the other two. Depending on how fast the game is, this might be advantageous to the gamer... in FPS games, it generally tends to be. If the game only runs at 30 Hz internally, clearly it's not an advantage. It all depends on the game and the person playing. Something like an RPG or The Sims should be vsync'd... something like Call of Duty probably shouldn't. Someone who complains about AA and tearing in a game like CoD is probably having his ass handed to him by all the other players. If you're really into a game like that, you're willing to take ANY advantage you can; there's literally NO TIME to sit around and discuss the merits of AA versus no AA.

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This whole, "wanh wanh, I don't have enough Horsepower to ensure solid enough Frame rates so I can do well in MP" is FUCKING LAME!!!, guys.

That was an excuse back in 1998 when Half Life and Counterstrike were King.


It's 2010 for christs sake.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

Of course they are, the population in general is very dumb and most people aren't capable of noticing the finer details. Why should gamers be any different? People accept badly damaged/dirty film presentations when going to see a movie (or digital projection with HD resolution blown up to 40 feet wide or drastically dim 3D projection). People accept MP3s as quality audio. People accept distorted recordings that are way too loud with tons of clipping that the studios put out these days (regardless of listening format). People accept crushed images in the JPEG format as acceptable viewing. Hell, tons of people even accept 4:3 images stretched to 16:9 for viewing on their HDTV sets just because "they paid for the entire screen and want to use it". People are retarded. This should not be a surprise to anyone. Striving for high quality will get you nowhere, especially when the majority of people are content with "average".
I am not content with average. I always strive for better. But at least, in time, better usually becomes the new average... except in the case of CD to MP3.

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Solid post for the most part except for your utter acceptance of mediocrity.

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Originally Posted by doomguy

I'm retarded.

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:nod:

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Originally Posted by Pulstar

Being elitist about video.. We should label those people the Cyber-aristocrats. I think it's in people's sick nature to feel superior to generalised groups, in this case being anal about pixels and bitrates. You guys have a lot of time and decadence on your hands. There's a lot that the public can be criticised for, but to include games and other media on a technical level is genuinely pushing it.

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Did you forget which thread you're in? Sounds like you got fucking lost, partner. We're talking about V-Sync and AA in here...

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Originally Posted by Phosis

I personally think the term "gamer" is rapidly going the way of the dodo.

Gamers used to be a thing because not everyone gamed, or continued to game. But now, saying gamer is a lot like saying "movie buff"; everyone plays games just like everyone watches movies. Now it's more rare to run into someone who DOESN'T play a video game of some sort, whether it's on their phone, or their Wii, or PC, or Xbox, or Nintendo DS. Gaming is so completely integrated into entertainment that the term "gamer" automatically means "hardcore gamer". And the hardcore gamers are being rapidly outnumbered, much like movie buffs were outnumbered by crowds who will buy into anything, watch anything that is thrown at them, and make no assertions about it's content or quality.

Video games are Hollywood now. They just keep throwing shit against the wall to see what will stick. If it works, if it sells millions, it's copycat time, sequel time. No care is required, no effort made simply because the average consumer can't tell the difference between a triple A title and a bargain bin disaster. Much like movies however, you have a few outstanding directors who will continue to pump out quality material, and a few companies who maintain a strict level of quality control, and ensure they continuously pump out a good product. On the other end of the spectrum, you have the independent developers who are not restricted in the types of content they can produce, but whose product will usually only appeal to a niche market.

As far as "keeping gaming standards low" goes, this is unavoidable. Just like they keep spewing out poorly made bullshit in Hollywood, so will it happen in the gaming world. It's not worth getting upset about, this is just the way things are going, and it is only going to get worse.

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Best post of the thread so far... he understands.

I disagree with this: if we don't say anything during this generation, what do you think is going to happen during the next generation of Consoles? Do you think they'll finally ensure that 100% of their titles come with working V-Sync and AA? I imagine not... when there are millions of clowns out there buying broken software (and eating it up I might add), what justification will the Pubs and Devs be able to come up with for spending more money to ensure those two crucial features are attained with every release on their future system? I don't think they have any incentive when dumbasses continue to support broken products and broken gaming policies in general.

The P4&460s will probably do resolutions of 2000+xsomething high... lol, but still have the same inconsistencies of this generation when it comes to V-Sync and AA.

My point is backed up by the fact that todays Console Pubs/Devs feel it's ok to automate the use of V-Sync in certain titles when poor framerates at certain moments in specific games warrant it. How in the world was that EVER ok I ask myself... well, it's obvious. Those guys in charge of that decision asked themselves a simple question, "are the clueless gamers of today going to notice?" - and they answered, "not enough to keep us from using this shortcut".



Call me crazy, but I'd love to see what a Worldwide 6 month Boycott of Console purchases looked like. If enough people came together and took a stand against this nonsense... the companies that take shortcuts and make inferior products would shrivel up and die and the companies who are making games the right way would still be there in the end. Sony and Microsoft would wake up thinking, "wow, we can't bend our customers over anymore, they expect quality now... and if we want to continue to line our pockets, then we had either better come with the fire or get out of the kitchen".

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Originally Posted by doomguy

I live in fairy tale land.

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:nod:

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Originally Posted by old man

Hey, anybody else remember this thread?

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10552

:lol:

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We can only hope this thread-'ll not only rival it, but surpass it too :D

Come you guys. Stop holding back..

I'm surprised a "Pro PC Gamer" like OldSchool even bothers with consoles. ;)

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

I'm surprised a "Pro PC Gamer" like OldSchool even bothers with consoles. ;)

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I'm a PC gamer, and I play consoles(sometimes).Console games are pretty good what little they still make, not PC games shoe horned on a console.They still make some genuinely good console experiences, the last game I bought for the console was Bayonetta, and it was good.Console games can be put on a PC, it doesn't work well the other way around though as this generation has proven.This thread is getting very redundant, and OldSchool, I see where you are coming from and I know you're upset, but you can't be attacking people and what not.

OldSchool is such a hardcore gamer he is the master of all knowledge gaming, anyone who disagrees with him is either ignorant or retarded. Us half assed gamers could hope not to understand his complex beautiful mind and thought processes, rocket scientist wouldn't have a chance of understanding his reasoning as its far to complex to argue and must be accepted as fact. Us retards cant even understand what this thread is about it poses a question far deeper than the deepest previous question, the meaning of life. One day maybe we can decipher it and all of humanity will be guided to eternal happiness.

Edit

By the looks of things he has made some progress he can restrain from posting like 5 times in a row without just using the edit button.

Gamers are dumb? I always find them quite vocal about their opinion being the only one out there.

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Originally Posted by Phosis

... Gaming is so completely integrated into entertainment that the term "gamer" automatically means "hardcore gamer". And the hardcore gamers are being rapidly outnumbered...

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I completely agree with everything you said except the above. By the current usage, "hardcore gamers" went out with the Dreamcast and were replaced by "Core" gamers. Now "Core" gamers are being replaced by "Casual/Social" gamers.

I find it fun to watch in the same way watching a locust be eaten by a bunch of ants was when I was a baby goat.

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Oh, you mean if the framerate is HIGHER than the refresh rate. OK, triple buffering doesn't help that... it would help if you had say a game jumping between 40-60 FPS on a 60 Hz display (maybe not catching every single frame, but probably pretty close) vs a double buffered display where you'd have to drop to an integer division of 60 Hz. (ie 30, 20, 15, 12, etc) For PAL that's even worse as you have many fewer integer steps with 50 than 60.

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No, it's the same at lower frequencies as well, just easier to see with the example I used. Say a game is giving you 55 FPS. With triple buffering, you'll only see those frames that fall exactly on a 60 Hz period. So you'll see one frame, miss the next, see another, maybe see another, then miss the next. You are still completely skipping frames. When you flip frames without regard to the vblank, you get tearing, but you also get to see at least part of a frame that would otherwise be skipped entirely.