If you wanted to build an MS-DOS PC...

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

12-07-2010, 01:35 AM
roguetrip

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jax184

They say right on them!

Thats funny, yet soo true. lol

I read all this about the rig, but nobody has asked the OP what games he'd like to play. Might be able to get something more newer working with certain games?

I like my win98se machine, you got Dos and games built for 9x you can play. I've been messing around with getting Firefox 3.6 on my 98se box working, but working great now! Maybe I can read more of your guys posts :)
12-07-2010, 03:48 AM
kool kitty89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

Speaking of the 82C929A, I was sent a sound clip of the LS-212 cloned YMF262, and it appears as though it's not actually a YMF262 clone, but rather a real YMF262 in disguise(possible stolen YMF262s that have been rebranded?). I have not noticed a single difference between it and a real YMF262; it holds it notes just as long and doesn't output any notes incorrectly. Although, I am questioning the volume at which the LS-212 outputs the white noise, as it seems overly loud. Might be because the 82C929A doesn't have any kind of filtering on it.

What makes you think it's in disguise and not a more exact clone than other implementations? (not saying it's not a possibility, but wondering about your reasoning)

I think the YM3812s used on most creative cards are either rebranded or cloned as I mentioned before, more likely rebranded in the same sense that the i8051 MCU was. (both the DAC and YM3812 are rebranded with Creative part numbers stamped on top)
http://www.wavetable.nl/files/device...%20_resize.jpg
http://www.wavetable.nl/files/device...20B_resize.jpg
12-07-2010, 04:15 AM
TmEE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

Computers with 200MHz CPUs will make sound cards with a real YMF262 output a bunch of scrambled notes with certain games, just so you know.

Your PC sucked....

My numerous SB16s of which many got a discrete YMF262 have no issues with the 1.4GHz Pentium III I got in my PC, even one shitty 8bit sound card with YMF3812 on it works fine...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

How much of this applies if you're going to be using DOS compatibility via Win9X? (preferably 98SE)

In pure DOS you have worse CPU speed limit, perhaps 350MHz or so... On 9x you can set the amount of RAM the program will see but it does not work for pmode stuff
12-07-2010, 09:22 AM
Ace

Okay, then explain how both my OPTi 82C929A and my SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 output scrambled notes from the YMF262 on multiple CPUs faster than 133MHz(266MHz Pentium II, 1GHz Pentium III, 500MHz Pentium III, 500MHz Celeron) on two different motherboards with different chipsets(one VIA, one Intel). But here's the deal: those sound cards both output scrambled notes with only one game: Star Wars X-Wing, the floppy disk edition. That one game gives me hell with a whole bunch of sound cards with either the 4 different SoundBlaster sound options outputting no sound, or it will output scrambled notes with an ISA sound card containing a discrete YMF262. Same goes for the Avance Logic ALS4000, and this is a PCI sound card with everything integrated within a single chip(supposedly has an integrated YMF278, since it's said to be OPL4-compatible). It does this on every computer I've used it on.

Explain this to me.
12-07-2010, 10:38 AM
TmEE

Its a bit unlikely that both chipsets have some read cycles wrong, a game has to do a 36 bus cycle wait between OPL chip accesses, if the wait is shorter the chip will mangle up the data and shit happens. So its likely the game does not conform to this limit, and if the mobo is somehow doing faster ISA bus you will get trouble with no solution...
12-07-2010, 03:00 PM
Ace

There is a solution on all those computers to stop the YMF262 from outputting scrambled notes:

-Use a CPU slowdown tool
-Disable the cache

The latter reduces CPU performance considerably, to the point where the computer is painfully slow. CPU slowdown tools are hit-or-miss, but they do work. In general, though, they reduce performance more than a slower CPU.

Have you tried the floppy disk edition of X-Wing on any sound card with a discrete YMF262 on a computer with a CPU faster than 133MHz? If so, could you tell me what are the specs of said computer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

What makes you think it's in disguise and not a more exact clone than other implementations? (not saying it's not a possibility, but wondering about your reasoning)

Read below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

I think the YM3812s used on most creative cards are either rebranded or cloned as I mentioned before, more likely rebranded in the same sense that the i8051 MCU was. (both the DAC and YM3812 are rebranded with Creative part numbers stamped on top)

There also existed a clone of the PC Engine Shuttle which consisted of stolen NEC parts that were rebranded, hence my theory the LS-212 is a stolen and rebranded YMF262.
12-07-2010, 03:04 PM
TmEE

provide me the game and I can run some tests on my PC...
12-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Ace

Is it even legal to do that? I mean, I have the full version of X-Wing, not a demo. Unless I know it's legal, I won't provide the game for you.
12-07-2010, 07:12 PM
Guntz

Couldn't you just, you know, copy the game off the floppy(s) and send TmEE the files over the internet?
12-07-2010, 07:31 PM
NeoVamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

Is it even legal to do that? I mean, I have the full version of X-Wing, not a demo. Unless I know it's legal, I won't provide the game for you.

Said the guy who made an illegal copy of a Genesis game. :o
12-07-2010, 08:25 PM
kool kitty89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

There also existed a clone of the PC Engine Shuttle which consisted of stolen NEC parts that were rebranded, hence my theory the LS-212 is a stolen and rebranded YMF262.

That would have been limited to the stolen quantity... rebranding doesn't imply stolen tech, it could mean legally purchased components which are then resurfaced/painted and relabeled for whatever reason. (in some cases to inhibit reverse engineering or to facilitate manufacturing policies -like tying all to an in-house parts numbering system: for the old SB cards the latter would make more sense for the Yamaha chips given how obvious the DAC and YM3812 are, but the former could apply to the i8051 being rebranded as the Creative Labs DSP)
12-07-2010, 08:28 PM
Ace

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoVamp

Said the guy who made an illegal copy of a Genesis game. :o

Oh, you little smart-ass. ;) I made that cartridge out of frustration of being unable to find Thunder Force III.

Well, anyways, I've got the data for the game, I'll just send it over. I can't send it now because the computer I'm currently using has no floppy drive.

And by the way, the floppy disk edition of X-Wing is all over the Internet. You can easily get it if you look, but most of those have either the audio turned off, refuses to save data, and whenever you press ESCAPE, you get FILE ERROR! on the bottom of the screen while in the game. I think I'll set up an XP/95 dual-boot on my DOS test box and copy the data from my floppies to my USB memory stick, then send it to TmEE.
12-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Ace

Update on the LS-212 cloned YMF262:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

What makes you think it's in disguise and not a more exact clone than other implementations? (not saying it's not a possibility, but wondering about your reasoning)

It's actually not a stolen YMF262. It appears this chip is very similar the cloned YM2612 found in Genesis super clones: a direct replica of the YMF262, but with a higher sampling rate than a real YMF262. Its sound output is clearer than a real YMF262 with unfiltered audio output, and unlike other YMF262 clones, every single note is the same as a real YMF262.

So if you find an OPTi 82C929A with either a real YMF262 or the LS-212 clone, you'll be fine with either or. However, don't make the FM Synthesis too loud because it will distort. It doesn't sound too terrible on an 82C929A with a real YMF262, but the LS-212 sounds like crap with distorted sound.
12-09-2010, 02:27 PM
TmEE

If sampling rate is higher than it will sound veeeeery wrong as a great majority of the sounds depend on the sample rate of the chip. The DAC might be better and/or better analog parts, but most definitely not higher sample rate.
12-09-2010, 08:58 PM
Ace

Yeah... way to fail at using technical terms. Someone hit me.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page