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I got busy on the keyboard this weekend and wrote an article on why the Sega 32X wasn't the worst thing to be released. Hopefully it'll educate the masses a little bit.
You can read it here: http://www.gamesasylum.com/2011/01/2...ubbish-honest/
I'm quite pleased with how it turned out. The screenshots looks especially good on the page I think.
I even did a little research and found that it was designed on a hotel notebook and not a bar napkin as some people believe!
Good article. I have really enjoyed the 32x as of late and it's easily been my most played system. With that said though I paid next to nothing for the system and 10 games (that is next to nothing compared to what someone would spend on any other system with 10 games) and I do understand how someone could feel let down but the 32x if they paid launch prices. Even though I think I would have still enjoyed, I could see where early adapters would be coming from. But with the prices for the system and it's games today there is very little reason for it to recieve the negativity it does. It is a great bang for your buck and a very underrated system.
Decent article but I disagree with a few things.Quote:
It had the best home versions of NBA Jam, Mortal Kombat II, Pitfall and Blackthorne while games like Metal Head and Shadow Squadron looked better than some of the early Sega Saturn titles. Shadow Squadron was in fact converted to Sega Saturn. The Rayman-alike Tempo was a joy to play, Virtua Fighter was an impressive conversion that was better than the Saturn version due to having no loading times and although rather ancient the conversion of Afterburner and Space Harrier were the best around until Sega released Sega Ages on Saturn. Combine this little lot with Knuckles: Choatix and Kolibri – often touted as the two reasons to own the system – and I think you’ll agree that the 32X isn’t quite the harbinger of death that most make it out to be.
NBA Jam on the 32X is indeed better than the 16-Bit versions. It doesn't compare to the Saturn or PSx versions.
MKII-The best Sega version but still not as good as the SNES version IMO
Shadow Squadron and Metal Head don't look better than any other early Sega made shooter. You'd be comparing them to the likes of Panzer Dragoon and Gun Griffin. DarXide did look as good as a few first gen Saturn titles.
VF-load times weren't an issue on the Saturn version of VF. The 32X did have a few features that were exclusive to that system but it looked and sounded way worse than the Saturn version.
Good article. I must say I didn't know of the lack of European release. That makes sense though. The 32X/Mars project was totally a brainchild of Sega of America at the time. Japan didn't want it done at all. They were willing to wait a year for the Saturn. Because the Saturn was due, SEGA couldn't get anybody to make games for the 32X. The high price, coupled with so-so public acceptance of the SegaCD, meant only the most fervent gamers bought the 32X when it debuted. Sega never followed up those initial games with anything earth-shattering, and then pulled the plug. I can tell you firsthand, the consensus on the "street" back then was SEGA had two strikes on some buyers (CD, 32X) and they weren't going to strike out by buying the Saturn, which also pretty much failed.
PS: I think you left an "in" in this sentence that shouldn't be there.
Quote:
but Sega of Europe in really gave European 32X owners a hard time
The Saturn version takes ages to load and was generally poorly done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Shocker
I wanted to buy one of these things, But after i saw AVGN. :D
It does look like a tumor on your Sega genesis, and poor genesis gets rapped with all the extra hookups. I seen one of these things hooked up at my friends (before he sold his 32x) and buy it looked like a mess. :d
Wait if Japan didn't want the 32 at all then why on earth did they release the unit in Japan? The MD was in 3rd place getting trounced by the SC and doused by the PCE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg2600
Good article, although I'm not sure that a 32X will work on a Mega Drive from another region without modding. It says this on Console Passion's website, which is where I had mine done, but it's been a while since I read that part of the site and may be mistaken.
There are some cool games though as you say, I agree VF is better, but mainly in the sense that it was better than the Saturn because it was as good as it could be for the system. The Saturn one could've been so much better and was dissapointing with hindsight.
It's too bad that practically 2 million people agree with AVGN's opinion of it.
I did think about the Saturn and PS1 version of NBA Jam being superior, but no loading times on the 32X version nudged me towards that version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Shocker
I'm standing my ground on the fact that Metal Head looks as good as an early Saturn title. I was in my mind though thinking about stuff like Kileak: The Blood and Cyber Sled on PlayStation 1.
Thanks, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg2600
Even Sega new the launch version of VF was poor - they released Virtua Fighter Remix shortly after to make up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cleeg
My MD/32X set up is of a US 32X and a PAL MD with a 50/60hz switch and a region switch (Jap/Eng). All my games are US and work fine. I can even set the MD to Japanese and get Cyber Battle instead of Cosmic Carnage...which is pretty cool. :cool:
Good article! I'm also an enjoyer of the 32x, and while it may not have been a smart move business-wise, 15 years later it still has some enjoyable exclusive games and ports.
The Saturn is even more underrated, criminally so...
That, and it makes collecting in the Sega scene that much more enjoyable. There's more for us to collect in terms of models, addons to our favorite console, and there's also more for us to experiment with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
You say that yet you simply are just comparing PSx games to 32X games. Cybersled being an old Namco game that predates the 32X and Kileak being a bad FPS from Genki. These games would be a better comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by NonShinyGoose
I've always been a big fan of the 32X. It's really too bad that there aren't more games for it.
I am alright with people watching AVGN's review (what 4 games?) and then coming away thinking the system sucks without ever playing it. Keeps prices down for those who like the 32x.Quote:
Originally Posted by arnold_the_bartender
That is true. Same with how cheap Game Gear collecting is.Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC
Very nice article. You reminded me about some more games I still have to pick up!
I also like the look of the combined Sega Genesis Model 2, Sega CD Model 2 and 32X. It has that whole Voltron thing going :)
Sorry, but it works the other way around. Due to the AVGN reviewing it, it'll only drive demand for the system up. More people know about it, more people get curious, more people look to buy it. See: The Sega CD, Jaguar, Moonwalker, etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC
Yeah, and there were several factors as to of why there were not better games for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by djshok
This, there's loads of people out there who will buy things because they think they're being ironic or funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
It really doesn't matter, AVGN isn't supposed to make things look good. The problem is with the fans that take his tongue-in-cheek show as 100% serious.
enjoy'd the read thanks!
Exactly, his show is a comedy first; none of his reviews are journalistic, they are just exaggerated opinions that he's had out of character, with exceptions of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously
I can understand a lot of his frustrations in his episode, but every AVGN fan knows he was the NINTENDO Nerd first. That should be enough.
As an AVGN fan, I take offense to that. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously
I don't know anyone that takes his show as anything other than entertainment. He dramatizes flaws in bad-to-mediocre titles to comedic effect. I've never known anyone to take anything he says as 100% serious. :D
Microsoft really should make an add on that plays old Sega games and call it a 32X Box. I don't own one, but it would give those X box owners something cool to play mediocre games on. The odd really good title too of course.
Nice article and good to hear postive things about the 32X for a change.
Read comments of his videos on Gametrailers.com and you will meet such people.Quote:
Originally Posted by kgenthe
the 32x has a video jumper inside. if its pal, and plays a ntsc game, it actually outputs pal60. with rgb you dont notice this.
however, my ntsc 32x refuses to play pal 32x games.
reason for this is because, pal models are wired up for a 240 line display, and ntsc models are wired up for a 224 line display..
an ntsc console can be rewired to do pal games, but itll output ntsc50, or rgb if you use that.
I enjoyed the 32X. It has its critics, but I could care less about what they say. I think Sega could have handled the 32X better before pulling the plug. The first game I picked up with my 32X was WWF Raw. It's not bad but it was barely upgraded from the Genesis port. In addition they only added one new wrestler and the ring was purple looking. Thankfully the next couple games I played were much better. I loved Virtua Fighter and Racing. Star Wars Arcade, Knuckles Chaotix, and Doom were good fun. Zaxxon Motherbase 2000 was decent. Two of my favorite 32X games were the MK II and Wrestlemania Arcade game ports. Those games were 2 home runs for the 32X in my opinion. I never got a chance to play Space Harrier, Blackthorne, or NBA Jam TE which is a shame. I would have liked them.
Well, as I consider myself one of those critics: The hardware itself could be worse, I think. It addressed many things that back in the day I felt they should have addressed with Sega CD or at least the model 2 but didn't.
I'd have loved to see the 32X library released for the machine I chose (Saturn), and I'd have killed to see Sega's approach of mostly 2D games and arcade conversions continued during the Saturn era. But this didn't happen.
The bad things about the 32X were: Its strange design (as if they sold a DVD player that would plug into your VCR's tape drive but still needed its own video and power connections), and worst of all: its affect on Saturn's performance thanks to all this money wasted on hardware R&D, production, software development + production (cartridges!), advertisement, distribution, etc.
I can really see the 32X and Saturn coexisting in the US at the least. Not the historical one with its completely different cost structure per region, and definitely not while canceling the 32X by summer 1995. Genesis sales were such from 1994-1996 that 32X sales, especially once the add-on was dropped to $100, could have remained respectable for about two years pretty easily, potentially better than Saturn and PS1 games were selling during that time frame. The Saturn only apparently selling 900k in the US by October 1996 means that there was plenty of 16bit sales to be had. I do think that SoJ made a mistake by not making 32X games forward compatible when they commissioned it, but budget priced Saturn versions should have been cheap and easy to make.
To me this all goes back to the fact that there wasn't a global market back then, and each division was focused on its own little sand boxes. I owned a 32X and a Saturn at the same time, and still collected 32X games while purchasing Saturn games new. For me this cut into my Genesis cart game time more than anything else. I don't see why the existence of either is a serious problem. For Europe, it just seemed like everything Sega offered was *way* too expensive, and that caused a lot of really staunch opinions to be formed early on about the 32X and Saturn.
I really, really wonder how people come to this conclusion ? As things were 32X didn't sell at all, the 16-bit market collapsed over night, 32-bit sales were slow. Sega lost all of their market in less than one year, while Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft (Windows 95) came out as the laughing winner of a battle that didn't take place because Sega shot themselves in the foot the evening before the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
For starters, what you say of the market loss is exaggerated, at least in the US. There were strong 16bit sales here at least until the end of 1996. Secondly, numerous sources cited in this forum show the 32X hitting anywhere from 665,000 to a million units worldwide in 1995. 32X did not sell poorly by any stretch, it was canned too early.
Conceptually, if I were going to market the 32X and Saturn at once I would have done it like this. One, the 32X would get solid first and second party support from 1994-1996. If sales kept dropping, then new releases would drop too, but not stop until at least summer of 1996. Secondly, 32X games would be ported as budget titles on the Saturn, that way Saturn owners could enjoy the top 32X titles, and 32X owners could play a "suped up" version of their favorite games.
That's pretty much it, plus have a couple dozen 32X CD games that really show the system's abilities off and for george's sake get Saturn development kits out that were on par with PS1 kits by summer of 1996.
It seems like a simple recipe to me, but if "unbiased" magazines like Edge were out there every issue trashing the 32X none of it would have worked no matter what.
If Microsoft were to release Xbox 720 and an incompatible add-on for 360 called 540, and which plugged into the 360's DVD drive - and still required its own video and power connections AND cost more than a deluxe PS3 Slim bundle - why would anyone buy this ?
By 1994 Sega had turned into the evil corporate giant they once were thought to be an alternative to. - Why shouldn't magazines warn people not to waste their money ?
32X was released during the holiday season of 1994. We got numbers for 16-bit sales that definitely show how the market crumbled down. 1994 was still okay but there was a slump of roughly 1/5th of the sales in comparison to 1993. In 1995 however they sold only half of what they sold in 1994, while in 1996 they sold only half of what they sold in 1995: 1 million Genesis. They were back to the level of the pre-Sonic days.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
And even if these sales don't seem that bad: If you expect a better performance but end up with a result like this, you can throw your entire financial planning through the window. You simply got nothing to work with anymore.
Okay, I see where you are coming from. On the add-on mentality, we are talking early-mid 90s here. This was the old Video Game market. Obviously nothing that actually expanded the graphics of an existing game console and required unique games could be released today. We are back in the times of Turbo CDs, DUOs, Sega CDs, vapor ware SNES CDs, Jaguar CDs and 3DO M2 add-ons still. That aside, I agree that the 32X's physical design should have been improved upon, and the Neptune (or whatever) should have launched in 1995. Also note, I am not talking about the Saturn or 32X becoming the biggest thing ever, I don't think that was possible even if they both produced better than Model 3 quality graphics and sound at the same prices.
Now, the market slump was market wide. Nintendo dropped, Sega dropped much more, and Sony's PS1 launch suffered as a result of the slump. It has been widely reported that the Genesis and SNES outsold the PS1 individually into 1996, that is where I was coming from. What the 32X did in 1994 was keep Sega's revenue above Nintendo's, which meant that revenue would be there for the Saturn's western launches, or for software development, or marketing, or hiring, whatever they needed it for. If they lost that revenue, they would have been forced to work with less or find more venture capital. At this critical stage the 32X played its roll of keeping Sega one of the biggest players in the industry.
We know how it turned out, we don't entirely know why it turned out that way. I consider it no different than if Sega had some sort of financial crisis in 1992 and just stopped making games on the scale they had been and stopped marketing the Genesis on the scale they had before.
Wow?! I own a pal asian megadrive, (which I need to get round to modding for 60hz output) and I'm actually currently looking at a pal asian spec 32x to possibly buy. Now if I then bought the 32x with say a Ntsc-J copy of Virtua Racing would would it thus run at PAL60 full speed with no borders, due to the internal video jumper?Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
The mind boggles! I hope so!
I doubt that. 32X was a real black hole for SOA's money. The 32X launch was huuuge, but Saturn's ? Not so much...Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Keep in mind, we aren't talking about profitability for each unit sold or anything like that, just revenue. That is, pour money out, and get it back again, then count the cost. That's the way an aggressive organization like Sega used to be did things, that's the way they took over 50% of the US market from Nintendo. All of the reports I have seen say that the 32X helped propel Sega to greater revenue than Nintendo for 1994, whereas all of their Genesis games that year combined would have failed to achieve that on their own.
The 32X did GREAT at the end of 94, and did okay in 95 (given the first half of any year is slow for any computer or console, you always do better at the start of summer and after Thanksgiving) right up to the moment SOJ forced SOA to bring out the Saturn early. There's simply no way to argue against that. Even given the short period the 32X was available, it's not nearly the worst selling console by far.
But SOJ did not force SOA to bring out Saturn early - unless you consider almost a year after 32X launched early.
I thought the jury was still out on how the mash of quotes can make sense. SoJ ordered the Saturn to be launched earlier than September, Kalinkse decided that the surprise launch at E3 was the best way to handle that. At least that is where I've seen the speculation end so far.