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I'm going to replay Sonic Adventure again, and I was wondering everyone's opinions on the series and which you all think is better and why. I've personally barely played 2, but what I have played was very good. I do however, like Sonic Adventure 1 A LOT. I love the action stages, especially Emerald Coast (mainly because of the awesome chase with the orca).
So, what do you all think? Which Sonic Adventure is your favorite and why?
SA1. I liked the adventure fields as they gave the feeling of actually inhabiting a world rather than just isolated stages. It's true that some of the characters stages sucked (Big I'm looking at you) but overall I felt the game was better than SA2. The Sonic and Shadow stages in SA2 were great but the rest were pretty bad and in some respects worse than the filler stages from SA1. The stages for Knuckles and Rouge were particularly tedious if I recall, and worse than Knuckles' stages from SA1. Also, I seem to remember the camera being a step backwards in SA2 although I'll admit that I haven't played it in years so I could be wrong on that front.
Personally, I prefer SA1.
Knuckles/Rouge levels in SA2 are a lot bigger and more tedious than in SA1. And I think I prefer the Sonic stages in SA1 just a bit more than SA2 (City Escape and Metal Harbor from SA2 are great, but I found the others to be somewhat forgettable). Plus, you can choose to play just Sonic in SA1 rather than being forced to play all the other characters too (unless you want to see the real ending).
Not to say SA2 doesn't have its pros over SA1. Most of the secondary characters in SA1 were pointless, whereas in SA2 you get an even mix of running/shooting/exploring (I found the Tails and Robotnik levels in SA2 a bit of fun, if a little easy and linear). If you want multiplayer or any of the Chao stuff, SA2:Battle is the game to play. Both games have cool stories (though they are ridiculous), but the first builds up the final boss that wasn't really that exciting, whereas the second pulls the final boss out of its ass but has a better final fight.
Overall, I enjoyed both, but the Sonic stages in SA1 push it ahead.
SA2, better char, better camra angles, and I like the maps much more.
Sonic Adventure 1, of course
There's no such thing as Sonic Adventure 2...
while being a great game, especially a great Sonic game ("SA2"), the title was quite a let-down back in the day when I first bought it and played it. I was really expecting an "adventure." But the whole "Adventure" part was very much down-played. I really loved the whole RPG aspect of Sonic Adventure 1.
Sonic Adventure for sure. SA2 was when things started going sour, as far as I'm concerned. The nice thing about SA was that if you wanted to ignore the boring gametypes (Basically, anything that didn't involve Sonic or Tails), you could. In SA2, if you wanted to get to the next Sonic or Shadow level, you had to play through the slow, plodding "mech" levels or the insufferable "find the stupid gems" levels.
The Sonic and Shadow levels were still fun, but the game is definitely worse for being divided up the way it is. Also, the angst ridden storyline is just embarrassing. And how come the prototype for the ultimate life form is a giant lizard, but the actual ultimate life form is a hedgehog? Wtf, mate.
I'm really surprised. I thought it was pretty much blasphemy to like Sonic Adventure 1 more than 2. It seems everywhere I go people proclaim Sonic Adventure 2 as the greatest 3D Sonic though I never really knew why.
I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so I have no need to re-iterate it.
Yea same here, I'm shocked, this is the first time I ever saw more then like one person even claim they like SA1 more then SA2(and even then, I'm petty sure that X person in X thread was just Trolling).Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously
I hope everyone in this thread is joking.SA2 played better than 1 on every level,I can't even fathom how you guys say some of this stuff.
I don't know. It's hard to explain. I could just never get into Sonic Adventure 2. As I said in the past I felt forced to play levels I didn't feel like playing compared to just being able to play through the Sonic levels in the first Adventure.
I think the real issue with me personally is that I don't really care for either of them all that much but Sonic Adventure 1 left a bigger impression on me by being the first new real Sonic game since the 16-bit days and by the time 2 came out the honeymoon period had worn off and I didn't care about it.
Regardless I like Sonic Adventure 1 better. That's my unpopular opinion.
No joking here, man. I like Sonic Adventure's levels better, personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by kokujin
I agree with this 100%, particularly your second point. I was really impressed with SA seeing as it was such a huge leap since the last time we had seen Sonic proper, but none of the 3D games ever had the replayability of Sonic 1 - 3&K. By the time I played SA2 it wasn't enough just to be playing as Sonic in a 3D environment anymore. I played through it all the way but I've never felt the need to go back, and I don't know that I ever will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously
Well that's all fine and good, but SA2 is a better game.You guys need to take off your nostalgia goggles.
In what ways is it objectively better, if you don't mind my asking? It's been a long time since I've played either game.
I have both and barely played either, but from watching my little nephew play I think Sonic Adventure 2 looks more put together.
First and foremost is the level design, there different ways to do a level .The game is just more polished.I will say I hate the fact I can't just play Sonic levels, you have to play those other crap ones too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry coeurl
I like them both and think each one is superior to the other in different aspects. But I had to choose one to play until the end of time, I'm going with SA2 due to the Mission Ranking system and the incentive to unlock all the secret stuff like the 3D Green Hill Zone.
It's too bad the gaming reviewers "elite" seem to think both these games are garbage in retrospect and think they were all about flashy graphics. I hate those smug jokers at X-Play.
I see where you're coming from.I'm just waiting for G4 to get canceled, they don't even do games halfway right anymore.I miss Tech TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanwinters
I've never really understood why people say this. If you play just the Sonic levels in SA1, you've only played about a third of the game. You haven't beaten it. I can't imagine that people really play just the Sonic levels and then put the game down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I preferred the way SA2 alternated them. I liked playing one Sonic level, then one mech level, then one hunting level, and so on. I think if I had to play all the Sonic levels, then all the mech levels, then all the hunting levels, it would've been much more repetitive.
Although SA1 did try to mix it up a bit with things like the kart racing and the sky chase thing, but I thought those segments were pretty weak.
I will say that SA1 had a more charming plot.
SA1 is a buggy mess with horrific cutscenes and voice acting. First stages are awesome but it not too great as the game progresses. The camera gets annoying sometimes, not pointing to where you should go or gets stuck. Music is great for the most part though :)
SA2 on the other hand fixes everything wrong for the most part. There's slight camera problems but they're much more rarer than in SA1. Gameplay is much more smoother, cutscenes much nicer and voice acting is actually good now. Tails' stages just rule in that game and have the best music aswell, I'd happily play a game done like that :)
Last boss is a hugeass disappointment though, the one before it should have been last xD. Knuckles and Rouge stages aren't the greatest(especially Knuckles' ones because of the horrible "music") but when you've played them enough you can finish them quickly.
Therein lies the problem with Sonic Adventure 2. It's 1/3 Sonic levels, 2/3 crap. Okay, so maybe Robotnik/Tails levels aren't completely awful but the Knuckles/Rouge portions made me want to quit at times. I don't think the preference is due to nostalgia either.Quote:
Originally Posted by kokujin
I played SA1 about a year after it came out and I played SA2 around its release date. Sure, SA1 had the advantage of being the first 3D Sonic game (discluding the pseudo 3D of Blast and the little bonus game on Sonic Jam), but I was also really hyped up for SA2 and ultimately let down, whereas I was completely content with how SA1 went.
SA1 Tails' levels were better than the SA2 levels. Knuckles was bearable I guess, but in 2 the emerald hunting just started to really grind on my nerves. They should have left Tails out of the mech and kept the racing format of SA1. And with Rouge they should've given her a different game type altogether instead of a mirror version of Knuckles. That way we would've had 5 different game types as opposed to 3. That's the thing about SA1 that made it good, it was balanced better and it wasn't like the Big the Cat part took 1/3 of the game to play through, it was only a small section.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_factor
Also, I actually liked having the ability to freely run around the Adventure Field/Map or whatever they called the main hub in SA1. My ideal 3D Sonic game would have wide open levels that also offer the ability to slow down and explore. They would still have clear cut tracks/paths, but everything would seem a little more organic.
The exploration portion would be like in SA1 where when you play as Tails in some of the levels you've already beaten as Sonic(same for Knuckles). The difference would be character specific areas to be accessed, like in S3&K, as opposed to the characters just sort of being juxtaposed into a "Sonic" level. Seems like a no brainer to me but I guess with SA1 they wanted to showcase what the DC could do and tried to jam in as much variety as possible. SA1 was an ambitious game though, it didn't need to be retconned, just refined. Sega laid out the blueprint for a good 3D Sonic game, they just never went back to it(barring Sonic Colors which seems decent so far).
The emerald hunting is what really frustrated the hell out of me in SA2. For some reason I wasn't as bugged in SA1. I agree the SA1 Tails levels were more enjoyable as well.
Anyway I admit to not completely understanding my feelings myself, all I know is that I enjoyed Sonic Adventure more than Sonic Adventure 2 regardless of if it's a "better game" or not. Even if I take off the nostalgia goggles, I still don't like Sonic Adventure 2 so it doesn't matter.
And what I mean by the Sonic levels thing is the fact that I can go through them uninterrupted. I can play what I feel like playing instead of the game forcing me to play levels I'm not in the mood for. I'd literally hit a Knuckles level or something and turn off the console and not go back to it for days.
In SA1 when I wanted to play through the other levels I could do so at my own leisure instead of having to take breaks from the levels I wanted to play. I thought it was a better system though I wish neither game had all of the extraneous crap.
no kidding man, G4 is a pile of shit now. it was a good channel years ago, as was tech tv, before they merged and both died. also i agree oldmanwinters, fuck xplay and pretty much every review they've ever done lolQuote:
Originally Posted by kokujin
I used to hate on G4 when it came out,but know I'd take that over what they have now.I wish Tech TV never left.Quote:
Originally Posted by snotmaw
Sonic Adventure 1 hands down. Was I the only one who actually enjoyed Big's fishing stages? I've heard people don't care for them at all.
I'm also in the minority that prefers Sonic Adventure 1 to Sonic Adventure 2. The way SA2 was split up into "play a good level then play 3 terrible ones" and the crummy camera angles just didn't do it for me. I do not like Sonic Adventure 2 at all, personally I think it's when the franchise went straight downhill.
Sonic Adventure 1 at least you could play through the game as Sonic the entire time, and then move onto the more boring levels later on. It wasn't so stop and go, which sucked. And the whole HUB world made it more of an adventure. And the Tails levels were actually fun in SA1. And there were less Knuckles levels, which I hated the most in Sonic Adventure 1.
Overall, 1 beats 2. At least for me. Maybe I am wearing the nostalgia goggles, but whatever.
Nobody was watching G4 so my cable company actually dropped it. I don't miss it.
Back in the day I used to prefer, by far, the first Sonic Adventure. I actually enjoyed the first game a lot when it got released. I even liked the story for god’s sake. :daze:
That changed about 5 years ago though, when I sat down and played the games again. Nostalgia aside, Sonic Adventure 2, as a Sonic game at least, is light years ahead of the first one.
The first Sonic Adventure is a buggy mess with almost no gameplay direction. Its philosophy stands somewhere between the classic and the modern Sonic formula but it has neither the classic core mechanics nor the modern ones to back it up. Floaty physics, broken spin dash, no momentum approach, it actually has nothing.
Sonic Adventure feels like a very experimental title, like even Sega wasn’t sure about what to do. When I replayed the game I realized that it never was that good in the first place, we just couldn’t see it back then.
Sonic Adventure 2, on the other side, marks the official beginning of the modern Sonic formula and, even though I’m not its biggest fan, I have to admit that Sonic Adventure 2 plays very well, even today. The only bad aspect of it was that it forced you to play with all the filler characters. Thankfully, you only have to do it once, after that you can play only the Sonic stages as much as you want.
Yeah, SA2 really came alive for me once I had beaten the story mode and just concentrated on mastering each level. SA1 had me more riveted in story mode, but once it was beaten I didn't obsess over acquiring all the emblems like I did in SA2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggo
Also, I remember when "Tech TV" was "ZD TV"! Anybody else's memory go that far back?
That was a while ago, with gamespot tv.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanwinters
Yep! I also remember on The Sci-Fi Channel (Now SyFy) on Sunday mornings they ran a CNet show which showed off all the "latest and greatest" gadgets at the time. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanwinters
I do, I used to watch it all the time. Gamespot TV was even bearable because they just did reviews without the ridiculous attitude. I still remember watching PS1 and Dreamcast reviews on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanwinters
Ah, yes, the good ol' days when Adam Sessler didn't have to be edgy and snarky to be cool. They were very favorable to the Dreamcast back in 1999 and its launch titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously
I can remember Morgan Webb's debut episode too, she was terrible as it was probably her first time on camera. You could almost see Sessler cringe everytime she started to speak. Poor girl.
I didn't mind the show until maybe '05.I like kate botello and I liked Webb when she started, but the show got worse and worse.
I totally agree on almost all points there.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_factor
To play all the way through Sonic Adventure is to play through with every character. (you can't even fight the final boss otherwise, or see the entire story).
I like the Adventure Field aspect (sort of expanding on SM64's overworld -or Banjo Kazooie, but that was only slightly earlier- which itself was an expansion of some previous overworld examples), but overall I felt the formula for SA2 was generally better with more fluid progression of the story and game in general. (and avoided the repetition as you mention)
In fact, if it wasn't for my preference for adventure games in general, I may not have tolerated the roaming nature of adventure field at all. ;)
More charming perhaps, but I enjoyed SA2's plot more overall. It may have been simpler in some areas, but the stereotypical elements seemed to work well along with the nice plot twist with the "final" section. (and unlike the first game, you actually play as the villains as well as the heroes of the story, so to speak, up until the final plot twist -albeit somewhat predictable- where the 2 sides have to join forces)Quote:
I will say that SA1 had a more charming plot.
See, that's what I'm thinking. People keep saying DX is soo much more messed up than the DC game, but as far as I can see, it's not that much different in playability. (some have even mentioned DX -or even the 360 port- being MORE plyable with more responsive controls -CGR's review mentioned more of a delay in controls on the DC game when played back to back- though personally all I notice is a bit more uneven framerate in the GC version with a bit more detail in some models and textures but not much else -the PC version is apparently more problematic with the framerate, though with a powerful PC compared to 2000, that's probably a non-issue as well)Quote:
Originally Posted by TmEE
The cutscenes really are funky too, some are OK, but a lot are really odd: the lips are off even in Japanese and Sonic's expressions are really annoying. (the voices are pretty mediocre too)
SA2 really fixed the cutscenes and voice acting . . . I think things peaked there in that respect. (the voices at least: some later games have better quality voice acting in some cases, but I don't like any of the actors as much as in SA2)
I don't remember the camera being a huge issue in DX (I've had a lot more experience with the GC game than DC), but I do remember it being less annoyign than SM64. ;) (I also remember it being pretty annoying on the ice level)Quote:
First stages are awesome but it not too great as the game progresses. The camera gets annoying sometimes, not pointing to where you should go or gets stuck. Music is great for the most part though :)
Yep, the only thing missing is another 3D railshooter/SHMUP stage with Tails, but I think this has come up before. ;)Quote:
SA2 on the other hand fixes everything wrong for the most part. There's slight camera problems but they're much more rarer than in SA1. Gameplay is much more smoother, cutscenes much nicer and voice acting is actually good now. Tails' stages just rule in that game and have the best music aswell, I'd happily play a game done like that :)
The one in SA1 was a bit generic (and the really fixed on-rails sort with very limited control over the flight -not like Panzer Dragoon, Star Fox, etc) and brinign that up to the level of SA2 would have been awesome. (the fact that the mech obviously transforms into a plane -and even soem cutscenes show such- just taunts me though :p )
Some of the emerald collect stages were annoying or frustrating at first (especially the rouge stage in the GUN facility with the time limit), but I enjoyed most of them, much more so after I got a better idea of the environments. (those levels tend to be easy to get lost in -actually, I found the on-foot stages of Star Fox Assault similar to that, confusing but much more fun with repeat play -though the controls were more frustrating in that game)Quote:
Last boss is a hugeass disappointment though, the one before it should have been last xD. Knuckles and Rouge stages aren't the greatest(especially Knuckles' ones because of the horrible "music") but when you've played them enough you can finish them quickly.
And I liked the final boss battle in space in terms of atmosphere and such, but yeah it seemed to easy (either you get through it really easily or you screw up with a stupid mistake and star over). The first battle with the biolizard was definitely more challenging.
That's one thing that SA1 had in spade though: a pretty kick-ass final boss. :D
Actually, that's something Shadow the Hedgehog probably did a good bit better than SA2. (the final boss is tougher than any in either SA game for that matter, but in a fairly challenging way rather than just annoyingly repetitive/drawn-out cheap difficult -my brother played all the way though Secret Rings to find that sort of final boss, but he did beat it; he didn't like the game much either but he has an obsession about completing certain games like that ;) -I found Shadow genuinely enjoyable though, not nearly as polished as SA2, but quite possibly the closest to SA2 in overall gameplay of any other 3D Sonic game, though it mixes things up with the 3rdPS element and it feels a bit like SA2 crossed with MDK/MDK2 at times -the voice acting was pretty decent too, not as good as SA2 -at least in as far as sounding "right" though I think some acting was actually better- but pretty good overall and with a reasonably interesting plot)
I forget what heroes does for all the bosses, but I remember it being a bit hit and miss. (I also remember the voices bing a bit annoying -not necessarily bad acting but weird sounding for the characters, though some were the same as the 4kids Sonic X cast which are OK but not as good as SA2's IMO- )
Heroes didn't seem like a sequel to SA2 so much as a spin-off.
Shadow actually felt much more like a sequel to SA2 IMO. (definitely only play the GC versions of either game -maybe the Xbox version of Shadow is OK, but Heroes is a bit messed up iirc, and both PS2 games are pretty buggy or cut-down from what I understand)
Not totally on topic, but
I fond this interesting video on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU_vbu4_F1o
It seems to be a trial/demo version, or maybe a pre-release version, but the interesting thing is that the vocals are missing from the music, but unlike the special instrumental conversions available online (and in some soundtrack disks -maybe bonus tracks on the main games, not sure), there's guitar riffs in place of the vocals, so it's like a proper all-instrumental version of the music.
Also, going on this issue again: http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread....520#post338520
With Sonic Adventure 2 vs the GC SA2B, I noticed the comparison with the first level intro is a bit more obvious as far as the polygon counts on the models go (especially the much heavier facets around Sonic's eyes -the rounder ears too, but some people don't seem to like that -I notice the eyes first anyway).
But more interestingly, there seems to be some changes in the posing of the models and camera position at some parts as well. (especially when Sonic's handing off the side of the helicopter -that part of the scene also makes the more detailed hands of the GC version much more obvious -and the eyes again as well)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA-yILpGYro
And also, there ARE full lighting effects in SA2B as I noticed when I played it again, I'm not sure what's going on with the cutscene posted in the previous thread. (the one after the mech battle boss with sonic and shadow)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqlcsWK7EA8
The lighting (at least shadow effects) seem to be at least as good in-game for the GC version, so I'm not sure if there's something odd with the cutscene engine or what.
Maybe they removed some shadows for the night levels. (indeed, the DC's night shadows are a bit too high contrast at times, but you'd think they could have fixed that with lower contrast shading/lighting effects rather than disabling it entirely)
Also, a clip of the US DC version, though it seems to look the same as the first clip (just different music) and the quality is lower:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t80cI9IuHo
Hmm, Sonic Adventure 1 or 2? This is certainly an easy choice.
Sonic Adventure 2 (Battle) of course!
As with the other sensible users here (like TmEE and Kool Kitty), I have always found SA1 to be unusually crappy. It's horribly buggy, sloppy, at times poorly assembled, the cutscenes are awful and the voice acting is even worse. I never, EVER found this game to be noteworthy. Though mind you, I never played it at launch so perhaps that's why I see it for what SA1 really is. ;)
As for SA2, basically everyone else's thoughts, except I've only ever known the GC re-release. Much better game overall. The supposedly "crappy" filler stages never bothered me (well maybe except for Tails/Robotnik's at times frustrating mech stages). I always did like that game, but mostly for one reason...
Which leads me to the Chao Garden aspect of these two games. I haven't read a single mention of these add-ins in this entire thread. Did you guys purposely avoid this or something? Every single one of you's?! I always loved the SA2B's Chao Garden. Not buggy enough to make it unbearable, but juuust buggy enough to keep things interesting. At the time I had never played a pet simulator before, so I got hooked on it.
SA1's Chao Garden on the other hand, is too buggy to be of any fun. I'm sorry but it just feels broken at times. I could definitely understand this one being forgettable.
When it comes to Chao I wish those creatures never existed, hence why there's no mention of them from me :P
It turns out I was somewhat mistaken on the voices: the English voice cast was basically the same (sans Knuckles) for all characters used in SA1, all the way up to Shadow. (where they started using the 4kids cast)Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
So most differences from SA1 to SA2 to Heroes, etc would be in the performance of the actors and directing, not which actors were actually used. (except Knuckles who chanced from SA1 to SA2 -and various characters not cast in SA1 or missing from some later games -like Big)
I still like SA1 (even DX), but it's definitely rough around the edges. (I didn't play it until a couple years after we got SA2B on the GC -which I think we got some time in 2004 so we probably got DX some time in 2006 -maybe '05)
My brother and I had some fun with the Chao garden in SA2, though it helped that my little brother had a freind who was addicted to the GBA games and was willing to train several chaos for us. ;) (unfortunately, we lost all our data -along with the SA2B and DX save files and several other games- when out Nintendo 8MB high capacity memory card started failing)Quote:
Which leads me to the Chao Garden aspect of these two games. I haven't read a single mention of these add-ins in this entire thread. Did you guys purposely avoid this or something? Every single one of you's?! I always loved the SA2B's Chao Garden. Not buggy enough to make it unbearable, but juuust buggy enough to keep things interesting. At the time I had never played a pet simulator before, so I got hooked on it.
SA1's Chao Garden on the other hand, is too buggy to be of any fun. I'm sorry but it just feels broken at times. I could definitely understand this one being forgettable.
Once he made us a couple chaos chao, it was pretty easy to win most/all of the competition stuff and unlock some more extras.
I will admit that I did get a bit into it (it's a little addicting) around 4-5 years ago when we were first playing it, a decent bonus feature. (then again I enjoyed Hey You Picachu a lot more, but that's not really the same thing -and we owned it before SA2B ;), maybe my old pokemon picachu tomagachi-ish thing is more comparable -though that had the battery die after I got it super good too and I never bothered to go through it again ;))
The cart racing minigame is decent too, but the main multiplayer stuff is better. (a shame it's only 2 player and not 4 -that's one of the things Shadow actually added -I don't think any other 3D sonic game has a 4 player competitive mode -unless you include the spinoffs like Shuffle, Drift, Superstars Racing, etc)
I personally enjoyed sonic adventure 1 alot more then 2. I liked being able to choose which character I wanted to use in the game from the start and I just really enjoyed the level design. the level design still had the classic sonic look without taking itself too seriously.
I wasn't much of a fan of sonic adventure 2 mainly because of being forced to play as all of the characters in the game instead of being able to choose your character from the start. it's not a bad game, I just really hated those emerald collecting stages that you had no choice but to play. I could tolerate most of the other levels but those emerald levels ruined it for me. although I did really enjoy the kart racing mini game that was unlockable and the 3d green hill zone that was also unlockable.
I bought both games during the time period that the dreamcast was still in production so I played both alot and enjoyed both for years, but my preference is still sonic adventure 1 I find myself going back to play that alot more then number 2. but I have to admit the sonic adventure 2 demo with the intro city level was pretty epic for the time.
Yea, omg I hate those things(although throwing them was pretty fun, I wish they never existed to beginwith).Quote:
Originally Posted by TmEE