Sonic CD (preliminary feedback)

I played through the first two Acts and played about 5 mins of the 3rd one. I'm not sure where I stand at this point. Honestly, the game feels like what a Sonic game would be if the maps were made on Acid.

The 'Themes' of the first two acts just don't gel for me like the themes do for the first 2 Sonic Games. It's nice seeing things all over the place... along with an abundance of flashing icons/etc everywhere, but the whole theme/idea of the maps seems disjointed.

I instantly noticed that the artwork for Sonic was exactly like part 1 which was cool. I don't understand why the 'look up/down' mechanic was taken out. Never understood why that changed from the first one to the second/etc while I'm on the subject. I always thought the look up/down mechanic was done perfectly on the first game (it looked up or down almost instantly when the D-Pad was depressed unlike parts 2&3 which take around 2-3 seconds to kick in).


My MAJOR complaint is the issue of poor Framerates at times... wth happened here I wonder? Sonic 1-4 on the original hardware run like bats out of hell, I figured if anything this CD version would have more going on with even more amazing framerates (or at least zero loss of frames)... but instead there is LOTS of slow down... why?

i never really understood why everybody got a boner over sonic cd.

Looking up and down wasn't taken out of the game. If you just press the buttons once it's meant to work in conjunction with either a spindash or a super peel out once you press any of the trigger buttons. You have to tap the up button twice to look up and likewise with the down button.

I like Sonic CD but it isn't the be-all-end-all of Sonic games that a lot of folks make it out to be. If it was available in a more mainstream sort of way, no one would hold it in the regard that they do.

Is it good? Yes. Is it amazing? No, and for a lot of the reasons you list. Music is meh, level design is nonsensical, and the past/future mechanic is simply obnoxious and breaks up the flow of the game.

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Originally Posted by TheFace

Music is meh, level design is nonsensical, and the past/future mechanic is simply obnoxious and breaks up the flow of the game.

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The Jap soundtrack rocks (a select few in the US are good as well). I always thought that time travel and breaking the machines in the past (you won't even have to do this if you collect the times stones by the time you reach act 2 of Tidal Tempest) added a sense of exploration in the game rather than breezing through. I feel like Sonic 2 seems short now, unlike my days as a child when I was unfamiliar with the level layouts and the levels seemed long since I would explore and bothered to collecting rings. To me, SCD and S3K are neck and neck with S3K slightly ahead.

At this point, I'm simply trying to figure out why the Frame Rates are so bad when the games running on standard Genny Tech (minus the "power" of the CD addon) run MUCH, MUCH better....









:?:

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Originally Posted by TheFace

Is it good? Yes. Is it amazing? No, and for a lot of the reasons you list. Music is meh, level design is nonsensical, and the past/future mechanic is simply obnoxious and breaks up the flow of the game.

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The past/future mechanic is the point of the game. If you know how to utilize it with any kind of skill it certainly does not break the flow of the game.
The level design is based around exploring the past, present, and futures. It is meant to confound those who can not grasp this. Those who grasp the concept of the game and have explored and learned the levels understand how amazing of a game it is.

How do loading screens in the middle of a level not break the flow of a game? Or when you hit a post by mistake and have to watch it so that you don't snap forward or back in time? Switching time periods forces the game to a screeching halt.

But thanks for the holier than thou perspective you pretentious jerk.

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Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty

The past/future mechanic is the point of the game. If you know how to utilize it with any kind of skill it certainly does not break the flow of the game.
The level design is based around exploring the past, present, and futures. It is meant to confound those who can not grasp this. Those who grasp the concept of the game and have explored and learned the levels understand how amazing of a game it is.

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Exactly. I guess it just doesn't gel with some people.

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Originally Posted by OldSchool

At this point, I'm simply trying to figure out why the Frame Rates are so bad when the games running on standard Genny Tech (minus the "power" of the CD addon) run MUCH, MUCH better....









:?:

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repeat

As for music, play the Japanese version.

As for framerate issues I've never noticed them.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

As for music, play the Japanese version.

As for framerate issues I've never noticed them.

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lol... what?



You're serious?
:daze:

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Originally Posted by TheFace

How do loading screens in the middle of a level not break the flow of a game? Or when you hit a post by mistake and have to watch it so that you don't snap forward or back in time? Switching time periods forces the game to a screeching halt.

But thanks for the holier than thou perspective you pretentious jerk.

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Sorry I hurt your feelings. There is nothing pretentious about it. I understand how to play the game, you do not.

Maybe you should reserve your judgements until you get some skill.
Yes, the game is punishing for sloppy players. Sign posts are strategically placed to send you to the wrong time zone if you are blindly blazing through a level. When you learn when, where, and how to strategically warp then the flow is just fine.

Yes I'm serious, I've never noticed any Frame Rate issues in Sonic CD. No more than the other Sonic Games on the Genesis that is. Unless of course you are referring to the FMVs in which case I will have to laugh.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Yes I'm serious, I've never noticed any Frame Rate issues in Sonic CD. No more than the other Sonic Games on the Genesis that is. Unless of course you are referring to the FMVs in which case I will have to laugh.

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Wow, I'd say about 30-40% of my 30 minute session with the first two acts was littered with horrid slowdown. Not sure how you can miss that.


FMV = what?

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Originally Posted by OldSchool

Wow, I'd say about 30-40% of my 30 minute session with the first two acts was littered with horrid slowdown. Not sure how you can miss that.


FMV = what?

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This is an FMV:



And again, I've never noticed any more slowdown in Sonic CD than I noticed in other Sonic Games such as 2 Player in Sonic 2.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I've never noticed any more slowdown in Sonic CD than I noticed in other Sonic games

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likewise.

Tidal Tempest has some impressive slowdown, but that is to be expected from water levels in Sonic games.

and "FMV" = "Full Motion Video"

Thats weird I haven't played it in a minute but I don't remember any frame rate issues during the main game parts. Maybe in the bonus levels or in the water level. I have the jap and US versions.

EDIT: Damn ninjas up in here creeping up on my slow typing ass!

He's been banned.

Let us rejoice.

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Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty

Sorry I hurt your feelings. There is nothing pretentious about it. I understand how to play the game, you do not.

Maybe you should reserve your judgements until you get some skill.
Yes, the game is punishing for sloppy players. Sign posts are strategically placed to send you to the wrong time zone if you are blindly blazing through a level. When you learn when, where, and how to strategically warp then the flow is just fine.

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Forgive me for thinking that the point of a Sonic game was to ... go fast. I don't know where I went wrong. Considering the random bunches of springs all across the levels and the disjunct design of the platforms, chutes, walls, spikes, rocks, everything... it's a mess. I don't care how deftly you can navigate it, the game looks messy.

Even if you WANT to go to the future/past, it still interrupts the game.

You're either 1) giddy as a school girl because you had this game growing up when everyone else didn't or 2) keeping the game on a pedestal because you could only dream of it until it was released on Gems Collection.

Well if I remember correctly the original design was to have it be an instant warp kinda like Back to the Future. However due to the loading constraints of the Sega CD they had to put that loading screen in between.

what the hell did i miss? why did the OP get banned?

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Originally Posted by TheFace

Forgive me for thinking that the point of a Sonic game was to ... go fast. I don't know where I went wrong.

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Believe me, those of us who know how to play Sonic CD can move quite fast through the levels.

Sonic CD is the Sonic game which introduced the “Time Attack” mode. This is the training ground. To unlock the “DA Garden” and then the “Visual Mode” certain level clear times need to be met. The DA Garden is something like 37 minutes. The Visual Mode is ~25 minutes. By the point you achieve these times you’ll have learned the optimal paths through levels, and you should recognize how brilliant the obstacle placement really is. My best total time was just above 15 minutes. At that point you’re flying through the levels with no trip-ups and certainly no accidental time warps.

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bunches of springs all across the levels and the disjunct design of the platforms, chutes, walls, spikes, rocks, everything

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These are called obstacles. Your inability to step up your game and handle Sonic CD does not then validate your opinion of “... it's a mess.”

So what soundtrack do you guys prefer ?

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Originally Posted by Curryman123

So what soundtrack do you guys prefer ?

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:lol:
:horse:
both.

I haven't played this in a while, but I'm pretty sure you can hit start when the time travel animation starts, and it'll go back to the game. The load time is much shorter than the whole flying through the air animation thing. I can see how some people would say this brings the game to a screeching halt, but it's just part of the game to me. Can't have every game work the exact same way.

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Originally Posted by tempo

what the hell did i miss? why did the OP get banned?

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He's been on thin ice for a while now I think. He's been making threads like this asking for opinions then personally attacking other posters for not having the exact same opinion as him.

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Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty

Believe me, those of us who know how to play Sonic CD can move quite fast through the levels.

Sonic CD is the Sonic game which introduced the “Time Attack” mode. This is the training ground. To unlock the “DA Garden” and then the “Visual Mode” certain level clear times need to be met. The DA Garden is something like 37 minutes. The Visual Mode is ~25 minutes. By the point you achieve these times you’ll have learned the optimal paths through levels, and you should recognize how brilliant the obstacle placement really is. My best total time was just above 15 minutes. At that point you’re flying through the levels with no trip-ups and certainly no accidental time warps.


These are called obstacles. Your inability to step up your game and handle Sonic CD does not then validate your opinion of “... it's a mess.”

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So it was option 1 then, right? I'm glad you're such an "expert" and I'm sure it's taken you far in life, but compare SCD to any other Sonic game of the era and the messiness is apparent. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad game and I do enjoy playing it (I qualified everything I said earlier with that until you started acting like a jackass) but it isn't the most amazing game in the history of amazing, or in the Sonic series.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

He's been on thin ice for a while now I think. He's been making threads like this asking for opinions then personally attacking other posters for not having the exact same opinion as him.

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True. Oldschool was cool when he first came around, but after the first ban his attitude towards other users was unacceptable. Guys that start acting like he did really bring these forums down.

He left this visitor message on my profile once:

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Have a care my man... my days on this board are numbered. There's too many guys on this board that I'd love to drop kick.

I've learned what I needed about old systems from here and gaming in general. I'll be damned if I'm going to be trolled by a bunch of amateurs... especially a bunch of freakin UKers and eurofags.

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This is Real stupid shit. Take it somewhere else.
Good Ban if you ask me.




Back on topic:

I'm one of the few that thinks Sonic CD is criminally overrated. Mediocre at best.

My first impression of the game was that it was like a Sonic the Hedgehog for Snes.

I think it fits in well with the Sonic spinball, Sonic 3d blast crowd.

But thats just my opinion.

I really like the game, it's kind of a funky sonic.
The slow down is there, and does suck. But it doesn't make the game unplayable at all.
The final chase is kinda frustrating as it took me like 10 times to do lol.

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Originally Posted by TheFace

So it was option 1 then, right? I'm glad you're such an "expert" and I'm sure it's taken you far in life, but compare SCD to any other Sonic game of the era and the messiness is apparent. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad game and I do enjoy playing it (I qualified everything I said earlier with that until you started acting like a jackass) but it isn't the most amazing game in the history of amazing, or in the Sonic series.

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Perhaps your "option 1" reveals why you feel the need to disparage the game.
Do you have a chip on your shoulder because you didnt get to play it when you were a kid?

imo Sonic CD is the only 16-bit sonic which presents any sort of challenge.
What you dismiss as sloppy is in fact the conceptual basis for the game.
In your comment in the review thread you reference "rings stuck behind" the walls. What you fail to comprehend is that the levels are designed to reveal vestiges of the other time zones. These rings behind walls are to be sought out and collected in another time zone.

Clearly you're riled up over this game, and your failure to grasp it. Take is easy with the name calling, ok?

You assume ignorance where there is none. The concept of the game is clear enough. In my opinion, the implementation is sloppy. You could have the best reason in the world for a hippo to be in your living room, but the fact remains that there's a hippo in your living room and that isn't ok.

I also don't find the game particularly challenging. I just feel like a level designer threw up on his keyboard and decided that it was good enough.

And while it's neither here nor there, there's a key difference between calling someone a jackass and saying that they are acting like a jackass.

You don't find it challenging, yet you have problems with accidently warping and you have indicated that you are unable to navigate the levels with speed. Sure the game is easy to get to the basic ending credits, but from your comments it is clear you do not play the game with any proficiency.
Seems like you are challenged.

Yeah, I groan and grunt to an interpreter who transcribes my intent onto the computer. It's a rather incredible setup, actually.

I have no problems with moving too fast causing a penalty... the best example is Sonic 2, where moving too fast on the "high road" usually results in your falling to the less desirable low road.

The hit detection on the UFOs is bad. Have I figured out how to adapt to that? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it's awful. Is there a good reason for the rings to be placed as they are? Sure, but it still looks ridiculous. Can you avoid the time posts? Sure, but the load times are still unacceptable. Being able to navigate through something that is a jumbled mess doesn't change the fact that it is in fact a jumbled mess.

Being good at the game you're playing doesn't make the game good. Again, the implementation is terrible.

If you had anything to say, your argument would be more substantial than telling me how terrible I must be at playing a video game that was made nearly 20 years ago.

Yeah, you're right.

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the level designer threw up on his keyboard

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:fail:

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Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty

Yeah, you're right.

:fail:

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Just know you're not missing out and are able to enjoy it. Not everyone likes the same things. That's like trying to get a WoW whore to play something else. Don't worry Face, I'm not calling you a WoW whore. :D

I've played the game, I like the game, I have a hard time placing it in the top tier of platformers in general.

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If you had anything to say, your argument would be more substantial than telling me how terrible I must be at playing a video game that was made nearly 20 years ago.

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Restated for truth.

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Originally Posted by TheFace

You assume ignorance where there is none. The concept of the game is clear enough. In my opinion, the implementation is sloppy. You could have the best reason in the world for a hippo to be in your living room, but the fact remains that there's a hippo in your living room and that isn't ok.

I also don't find the game particularly challenging. I just feel like a level designer threw up on his keyboard and decided that it was good enough.

And while it's neither here nor there, there's a key difference between calling someone a jackass and saying that they are acting like a jackass.

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You previously made your ignorance clear:

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Originally Posted by TheFace

The time travel is annoying, pointless, and time-consuming. They never implemented the actual plan for that aspect of the game either. The level design is so sloppy it is disgusting; rings in the middle of solid rock, flat nondescript areas in the middle of otherwise foliage covered platforms... Nothing is memorable here. I enjoy it a little as it is Sonic, but no more than that.

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How did they "never never implemented the actual plan for that aspect of the game?"
How is it "pointless?"

"Rings in the middle of solid rock" how is that sloppy when it is used as an enticement and clue for the parallel levels?
(And I really suspect you meant sloppy as in an outright error. As in "dur, they're so dumb, rings are behind walls." After all, you regard the level design as "vomiting on a keyboard")

Now as for your assumption that I'm placing the game on a pedestal and that I'm "translating" your posts... I am just standing up for the game in light of someone hurling some pretty harshly disparaging opinions.

I've made myself clear. You've been calling names, you've been making erroneous analogies, and you've made your own dismissive assumptions all the while purporting that your opinion somehow overrides the 16 year history of players' appreciation for Sonic CD.

I acknowledge and understand that Sonic CD isn't for everyone. But please don't make stupid comments about it.

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Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty

I acknowledge and understand that Sonic CD isn't for everyone. But please don't make stupid comments about it.

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In short, have constructive criticism?

IIRC, the time travel was supposed to have a broader effect on the development of the game, including difficulty of each Act III and the later stages.

I don't care what the reason was for things like rings in solid walls- I own the game, I'm aware of how to make them accessible. I still think it looks cluttered. I'm glad you can overlook that, I can't.

The only reason you see what I'm posting as overtly negative about the game is because I've been forced to restate points when your only response was "herp derp you bad at an old game."

I like the game... but it's prestige is boosted by the fact that not everyone had a SCD and that it's one of the top two or three games for an add-on that didn't have enough quality games.