and won EG's game of the year (I remember quite fondly), why didn't Sega do a neigh instant sequel instead of outsourcing it Europe. What was the reasoning behind that 'genius' move?
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and won EG's game of the year (I remember quite fondly), why didn't Sega do a neigh instant sequel instead of outsourcing it Europe. What was the reasoning behind that 'genius' move?
Strider was a Capcom license, Sega did not have anything to do with the decision on a sequel. All Sega did was a straight port from the Capcom-arcade-game because Capcom did not develop for Genesis at the time.
Strider II was the work of US Gold. Apparently they had licensed Strider and got a good contract allowing them to do a sequel without Capcom's involvement. So they just went ahead and did it for all systems popular in Europe at the time. The Sega-ports were actually the last ones to be released, years after the original versions of Strider II came out for C64, Amiga, Atari ST, CPC and Speccy.
It's probably really the result of how the games industry worked in the 80ies. Capcom was no giant and it was a standard procedure to sell the license to do ports to all systems to other publishers. They were not so strict about the intellectual property back then, and it was better to sell a license to US Gold than to have them just clone the game under a different name and Capcom getting nothing for it at all.
Strider II is not considered canon today though.
I have absolutely no idea, but Journey from Darkness: Strider Returns is complete garbage and sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiejame911
Sorry, I meant to say Capcom lol. I figured that Sega would have coaxed Capcom into directly making a sequel since that had to be the hottest new property atm. I am just surprised that Capcom had "better things to do" instead of working on a second installment for what could have been the beginning of a pristine franchise that was without a doubt the "hottest 8 mega game ever"... at least up unto that point in history. To put this game into the hands of a company that's claim to fame is ports and overall weak sports games just boggles my mind. Capcom should have been smarter.
They seriously dropped the ball, but if the contract was that good... then I can't blame them in hindsight. Actually... I do blame them. Money isn't everything and and little foresight would have went along way. We could have easily seen a Strider 2 during the SNES launch and then a part 3 in 94.
Sadly the real Strider 2 that was released in the arcades and on the PlayStation 1 remained largely unnoticed. It was a really good game though, mixing sprites with nice 3D backgrounds for the time. :)
But by 1999 Strider had already been mostly forgotten.
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4228/strideri.jpg
They sorta did. The director and I think other Capcom employees made it for Mitchell under the name Cannon Dancer/ Osman. I seem to recall them being angry at Capcom.
Cool, never knew this game. The disadvantage of living in an arcadeless country.^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lizard
This does indeed look very much like Strider. Of course 1996 wouldd have been too late for a Genesis port, but still... awesome stuff!
Yeah I love it. One of the main reasons to have Mame imho.
Yeah I just read the Osman stuff on the web. There has to be some hidden story here. The director seems to have been really pissed to go out of his way to make an arcade clone with a different company. If the director still had that much love for the game years later, imagine what could have been done if he and Capcom were getting along earlier in the relationship. I'm sure some of it stems from the outsourcing of Strider II to US West. These things lead me to believe that the demand for such a game existed, but the need wasn't filled.
Along with Osman, that Strider 2 does look nice ill have to try that some day.
Capcom licensed the original Strider to Sega because Nintendo's licensing agreement wouldn't let it release the game itself. The same thing happened with Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Forgotten Worlds, MERCS, Final Fight CD, and Chiki Chiki Boys.
Found this interview (http://www.lscmainframe.net/features/kyotsui.html)
and it has some interesting points:
-He doesn't think Strider had anything really innovative as it borrowed from a lot of current games and the Cold War theme of the 80's.
-He says all Strider material is Capcom's due to it being a morality issue (he didn't sign a non-disclosure agreement back then).
-He didn't play any of the Striders after the first arcade version.
-He jumped around and didn't say whether or not Osman is actually 'unofficially' Strider 2.
-Strider for the arcade wasn't really financially successful. He didn't mention the Sega port, but with his general attitude I don't think he ever cared to know and maybe never played it. I think we can assume the port was obviously super successful.
-Was never asked to continue on the Strider franchise at any point.
I don't get why Capcom didn't want him to be director for a sequel for the Genny, after it won GOTY for EGM, or even sooner when the sales numbers started growing.
Because these aren't American companies. These are Japanese companies with division across the world. The parent company, where all the decisions are made, is located in Japan and relative to Japan's society (relative to business).Quote:
I don't get why Capcom didn't want him to be director for a sequel for the Genny, after it won GOTY for EGM, or even sooner when the sales numbers started growing.
There are a number of factors you need to consider:
- Capcom and Sega were both direct competitors in the arcade business
- Japanese game companies had arrogant and ignorant perceptions of what the markets were outside their region.
- GOTY != million dollar seller. One magazine's award doesn't meant crap, really. And this magazine is not even in their own country of Japan.
- Capcom only licensed the game to Sega. Sega programmed the whole game. This means there's no relationship between the Megadrive, Sega, and Capcom outside a simple license deal.
- The Megadrive was seen as a poor performer in Japan at the time. Hardly expecting Capcom to invest into such a console. Even the PC-Engine, being much popular and even knocking the Famicom down from #1, did nothing to pursway Capcom to develop for that console as well.
- Japanese companies and business ethics were based around pride and loyalty. Consumers were much the same way. Capcom wasn't about to 'disrespect' it's primary money making partner - Nintendo.
- Strider was in development for both the Famicom and arcade at the same time. While the arcade director might not have been involved in the Famicom port, Capcom as a company was. So this was a joint Famicom and arcade designed game.
- Just because Sega was able to get a license to 'port' the arcade, doesn't mean they were automatically going to be given a license to create a non-existing sequel. It's about creative control, after all. Sega didn't have the type of relationship and power that Nintendo of Japan had.
The problem is, is that you're looking at all of this from a N/A or EU perspective, when the most influencing factors are actually Japanese based.
At the risk of being branded as a heretic, I agree with TheFinalHighlander regarding Strider Returns: Journey From Darkness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcddHfc5NXI
As long as I play the game on the "classic" sword setting ("Sweep" is so broken), I have a good time with it. It feels like more of a hack of the first game rather than a sequel, but seeing as how itfixedimproved much of the slowdown that plagued the original and gave experienced players a few new challenges, I enjoy it at the end of the day.
I am no history expert on these matters (as many of you are), but I see these flaws in your argumentQuote:
Originally Posted by tomaitheous
-I don't think the NES-Capcom "partnership" and neither the arcade competitors angle has really any bearing on whether or not they would have had Sega work on a new game from an existing license for them on the Genesis. Capcom got them to port Strider and Ghouls and Ghosts (both of whom became MEGA popular on the system), so I see nothing in the way of getting them to use the same programming team to make a new version for the Genesis (the groundwork was laid). Money is money and they obviously were not solely working with Nintendo in the home market and not at odds with working with Sega in allowing them to use Capcom arcade licenses for home games. Where does 'disrespect' end and savvy business sense begin? You are making me think Capcom was thinking: "You can port our games to the Genesis, but you can't make original games from our licenses cause that would upset Nintendo too much? You can make both Sega and Capcom money by porting our arcade games to the Genesis, but if they do well we don't want you to work on a sequel, cause again Nintendo would be even more mad than they are with us for allowing you to go this far? Not only that, but you did a fine job of bringing these games to the US market, but we want US Gold (a non-factor in the 16 bit market) make the next version of Strider". Many things are not adding up...
-Saying Capcom didn't know the sales numbers of the US versions of Ghouls and Ghosts and Strider and how those markets were good for the company as a whole, sounds a bit off... and yes EGM was THE US gaming mag besides Gamepro during that time so yes their awards meant ALOT of exposure and more than likely sales. I would go to the bookstore in 1990 and read through both of those mags to see what was the most talked about games and I usually bought them especially if they were as highly rated as the Capcom Genesis games were (both of which I got as they were released). Kids across America thought as I did and Sega made money.
-I can see how the original director might not be able to work with Sega to do a sequel due to his being a Capcom employee.
In the end,
I feel you on the creative control tip, but they let US Gold create the game for the MD, who had basically no successful history in creating ANYTHING action/adventure related and didn't have a MD game made yet. WHY would you let this contract go to them instead of having Sega do a sequel (Sega already laid the programming groundwork and had a verified success). I can only surmise that it had nothing to really do with politics or creative control or even the Sega/Nintendo thing. Obviously Capcom had no direct interest in making a Genesis game for Sega at this point. I really think Sega dropped the ball and didn't show interest in making the game and like it was said earlier; US Gold offered Capcom a deal to good to pass up. If Capcom had looked past the here and now they would have seen that US Gold had NO business making this game and the license would have been better suited to Sega or something else down the line. I hope the short term was worth it.
Pulled from Wiki: Ken Horowitz of Sega-16.com compared Strider Returns to "seeing a loved one revived as a mindless zombie"
Strider was cool back in the day, especially in arcades, but now I really can't stand to play it.