Game Sack

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamevet

Come'on now. STI worked with AM1 on Die Hard Arcade. They were also responsible for Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Comix Zone and Sonic Spinball. The Sonic X-Treme debacle was beyond STI's control.

---

All the game desgin and programming was done by AM#1 . STi helped out with the artwork and that's it. My issues wasn't they weren't a fab team in 16-days. It was how hopless they were in the 32Bit age and how usless SEGA America was at getting that team ready for 32bit production and getting their piple lines up to 32bit standards and the less said about the Multi-Media studio the better . Its embrassing to think then a tiny little team like CORE were better and more ready for the 32Bit development than a elite In-House team at SOA.

Core didn't get yanked around like STI did. Let's not pretend like those assholes over in Japan (Naka included) didn't have a hand in the demise of Sonic X-Treme. You don't have 2 key team members near the brink of death in a good working environment. Sonic X-Treme started out as a 32X project and the expectations for that project to be completed a year after it being scrapped on 32X was unrealistic.

So what if AM1 programmed it? They weren't responsible for the level layouts and design philosophy behind the Die Hard Arcade game. Even the music was composed by STI. All AM1 was responsible for was making it work on the ST-V hardware, converting STI's model layouts and tuning the play mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamevet

You don't have 2 key team members near the brink of death in a good working environment. Sonic X-Treme started out as a 32X project and the expectations for that project to be completed a year after it being scrapped on 32X was unrealistic.

---

Don't make me laugh. STi was an America studio and one would hope been run under American rules for employment, not work like Japanese studios and their insane hard hours and it's not like SOJ didn't have issues of their own, like the death of members of the Team Andromeda team and so on .
To have a so-called elite Studio needing to use someone else tech and game engine, speaks volumes of the mess STi was in, never mind that anyone who knew a thing or two about SEGA Japan would know that not even the In-House teams share their own code between the themselves,never mind with an outside team.
And all because the great TOM simply called it wrong and backed the lame 32X, rather that getting his teams and their piple lines all ready for Saturn production
Looking over all that, even with the setbacks of making Soul Star for the Jaguar having 4 finished 32X titles ready go, but not released. The tiny studio that was CORE could still make a far better fight and job of getting up to 32 Bit production and multi-format production at that

STi were in a mess and badly run at the time of the 32bit battle and the blame lies with SEGA America for that.

Core could make whatever the fuck they wanted. STI did not have that luxury and were at the mercy of the higher ups. Core even had the luxury of sharing their games on other consoles and it's not like they were asked to complete Tomb Raider in less than 2 years.

And let's not act like Sonic Team didn't take the easy path with their 2D designed Knuckles Chaotix for the 32X.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamevet

Core could make whatever the fuck they wanted. STI did not have that luxury and were at the mercy of the higher ups. Core even had the luxury of sharing their games on other consoles and it's not like they were asked to complete Tomb Raider in less than 2 years.
And let's not act like Sonic Team didn't take the easy path with their 2D designed Sonic Chaotix for the 32X.

---

No Core had like a year to make the Tomb Raider games and thanks to deal with SEGA Europe had to ship the very 1st TR months earlier than the team wanted or expected and so the team had to work insane hours their self's. You work for the likes of SEGA then you're going to be expected to work on SEGA IP and on a SEGA console, its silly to make outwise . The blame lies with SEGA America and their handling of the 32bit era . But SEGA Japan can cock up when it comes to Sonic too, SEGA Japan are to blame for the mess that was Sonic 06 an another example of how not to run a team or get their piple lines up to next gen standards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamevet

You don't have 2 key team members near the brink of death in a good working environment.

---

You know, I never bought that story. The only source is Senn, and the whole thing seems very...Chris Senn-like.

It seems like anything that guy touches fails through no fault of his own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Lol. Like I told you SEGA made In-House more stuff for the Mega Drive after the Saturn to what Nintendo did with the Snes, after the N64; you seem not to know that Intelligent systems aren't an In-House NCL team but never mind, you also seem not to know there was a 6 year gap between the MD and Saturn, much that beween the Snes and N64, but never mind

---

Yet Intelligent Systems has only made games for Nintendo Consoles and has always been headquartered at one of Nintendo's Facilities. But yep, they're totally not an In house Nintendo team. :roll:

That's like saying STI wasn't an In-House Sega team because they weren't headquartered in Japan. Oh, and the Super Famicom released in 1990 in Japan, the N64 was 1996. So it was still a 6 year gap. Learn to math.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

You still seem not to know that the Saturn couldn't handle 3D transparent effects in Hardware and even point to videos on youtube that back up what I said for added irony, but never mind

---

But it can. It's in the hardware spec and quite a few games do it. Probably the most in-depth youtube video on the subject backs that up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg

It has support for it, it's just more limited and glitchy than the PS1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

seem not to know Model 2 didn't have the Transparent hardware for 3D effects either, but never mind

---

Except some revisions did have basic transparency support and Sonic the Fighters uses it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

still to this day refuse to accept that the MD only had one channel for Sample sound playback

---

And you still don't understand the concept of software mixing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

make out that Model 1 desgined by GE/MM/Lockheed Martin when it wasn't, but never mind

---

I never said it was designed by them, I said they were involved. Sega reached out to them for assistance, and then for Model 2 and Model 3 it was a joint project.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

And if all that that wasn't enough, I never ever said or made out that the Mega CD could handle a 'perfect port' of GF II; Only that it could handle a better port than the Mega Drive did, which it simply could have with its ASIC chip and far better sound hardware, but never mind

---

My bad, you weren't claiming perfect, but you were making a BS claim that it could handle it at 30fps even though under ideal conditions the best it could hope for is 20fps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

But hey, keep on dreaming that the Saturn could have handled Mario 64

---

I didn't say this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

and looking to tech demo's or youtube vids to back your laughable claims up

---

If it runs on real hardware, it counts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

and its nice to see you're still enjoying that chip on your shoulder even after all these years :p.

---

Nice to see I can still trigger you with one sentence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

I'll just stick to 'FACTS' myself.

---

Oh good, you put Facts in quotes so I didn't have to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blades

You know, I never bought that story. The only source is Senn, and the whole thing seems very...Chris Senn-like.

---

I buy the story, because it happens not just in videogame development, but in lots of jobs and professions people work too much for too long and burn out (I've seen it happen in my own)
But with STi you have to blame the Producers and also the Studio manager, who's jobs it would have been, to relay all this back to the very top brass at SOA .
But it's clear not only was the studio in a mess, but the Sonic X project was too. 2 lines of the same team working on different versions of the same game on 2 different platforms, that's just sheer madness

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

No Core had like a year to make the Tomb Raider games and thanks to deal with SEGA Europe had to ship the very 1st TR months earlier than the team wanted or expected and so the team had to work insane hours their self's. You work for the likes of SEGA then you're going to be expected to work on SEGA IP and on a SEGA console, its silly to make outwise . The blame lies with SEGA America and their handling of the 32bit era . But SEGA Japan can cock up when it comes to Sonic too, SEGA Japan are to blame for the mess that was Sonic 06 an another example of how not to run a team or get their piple lines up to next gen standards

---

sega of japan can be blamed for completely misjudging the 16 bit market in the west and therefore completely fucking up the megadrive and saturn in the west from 1994-1997

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

No Core had like a year to make the Tomb Raider games and thanks to deal with SEGA Europe had to ship the very 1st TR months earlier than the team wanted or expected and so the team had to work insane hours their self's. You work for the likes of SEGA then you're going to be expected to work on SEGA IP and on a SEGA console, its silly to make outwise . The blame lies with SEGA America and their handling of the 32bit era . But SEGA Japan can cock up when it comes to Sonic too, SEGA Japan are to blame for the mess that was Sonic 06 an another example of how not to run a team or get their piple lines up to next gen standards

---

Development for Tomb Raider started in 1993, as a matter of fact, I'd seen screen shots of the game back in 1994. Where did you pull that BS story from?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamevet

Development for Tomb Raider started in 1993, as a matter of fact, I'd seen screen shots of the game back in 1994. Where did you pull that BS story from?

---

Probably some old magazine that had questionable sources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamevet

Development for Tomb Raider started in 1993, as a matter of fact, I'd seen screen shots of the game back in 1994. Where did you pull that BS story from?

---

It's not bullshit at all,the bullshit is that development started in 1993, much less a screen shot back in 1994

For the likes of Tomb Raider 2 the team had like 8 months to get the Job done, the 1st game little over a year.

Quote:

---

In 1994, Core was a relatively small developer of around 25 people who were all squeezed into a converted Victorian house on the Ashbourne Road in Derby. At the time, the developer focused on making 2D games for the 32X Sega Mega Drive add-on and the Atari Jaguar. The leap to 3D had yet to happen.

During the company-wide meeting, Heath-Smith declared the PlayStation "the future". "This is what we need to work on," he said.

Heath-Smith called for ideas for 3D games that would sit well on the PS1, and Toby Gard piped up with his idea for a third-person game in which the player would raid mysterious tombs deep under pyramids. 3D gaming was established on PC at the time with the likes of Doom, but these games were first-person. Toby Gard's game would let the player see the character running about.

"Everybody loved the idea of what mysteries can be found under the tombs of a pyramid," Heath-Smith says.

Enthused, Heath-Smith gave Gard the greenlight to begin work on Tomb Raider - but only after his work on BC Racers came to an end. Six months later, Tomb Raider development began.

---

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...who-were-there

Yet again , just the facts !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

It's not bullshit at all,the bullshit is that development started in 1993. For the likes of Tomb Raider 2 the team had like 8 months to get the Job done, the 1st game little over a year. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...who-were-there

Yet again , I'll just deal in facts !

---

Your own article says development began in 1994, that's definitely more than a year if the game released in late 1996. That's pushing to at least 2 years if we go late 1994, early 1994 would be pushing 3 years. Also, numerous other sources all cite that preliminary design work began in 1993.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bultje112

sega of japan can be blamed for completely misjudging the 16 bit market in the west and therefore completely fucking up the megadrive and saturn in the west from 1994-1997

---

They can be blamed for not seeing 3D jump sooner, the lack of Hardware for 3D and transparent effects, poor tools, no Sonic ready early in and all that. Completely calling the 32Bit battle wrong totally backing the 32X wrong horse, the mess that was STi and the Multi Media Studio for the 32bit battle we can blame SOA and the likes of TOM .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Yet Intelligent Systems has only made games for Nintendo Consoles

---

They're not a In-House team.

Quote:

---

That's like saying STI wasn't an In-House Sega team because they weren't headquartered in Japan

---

No they're still a In-House team.

Quote:

---

And you still don't understand the concept of software mixing.

---

I do, but I know and can usually see and hear the difference Built in Hardware support makes

Quote:

---

But it can. It's in the hardware spec and quite a few games do it

---

No it can't via Hardware for 3D effects that are needed to be warped/wrapped around a 3D polygon.

Quote:

---

Probably the most in-depth youtube video on the subject backs that up

---

That's the Vid I'm about and it doesn't back up your claims with regards to BR.

Quote:

---

Except some revisions did have basic transparency support and Sonic the Fighters uses it

---

So we're on to revisions now. Well even revisions the effects weren't that great and nothing to what the 3DO (never mind the PS could offer) Play Sega Rally and see issues, Play Manx TT and not only see mesh effects used onthe speedometer, but a Saturn like for like Mesh effect used on the wind mirros on the bikes.

Quote:

---

My bad, you weren't claiming perfect

---

No I wasn't claming perfect at all !. Just a far better version than the base MD version.

Quote:

---

but you were making a BS claim that it could handle it at 30fps even though under ideal conditions the best it could hope for is 20fps

---

Never said that at all, so take it back and please stop lying .
Looking over that I said that while it would have to run in a widow and around 21 fps it would still be a hell of lot better than the MD version, if the Hardware was used like in Soul Star and Batman

Quote:

---

Yeah spot on . Sure it would have had to run in a window and the frame would have taken a hit to 22 fps or so . But I would take that any day for full use of the ASIC chip . If OutRun , Super Hang-on , Space Harrier, Afterburner II, Galaxy Force II had come to the Mega CD ussing the ASIC chipset inthe way Batman Returns/Cliffhanger and Soul Star did with Arcade perfect music tracks being played directly off the CD and the PCM chip used for Arcade quality sound effects . Then it would have helped the Mega CD image no end and would have pleased so many SEGA fans

---

That's what I said FACT of the matter !

Quote:

---

I didn't say this.

---

You seem to be implying it, even the PS would find it mega hard to handle.

Quote:

---

If it runs on real hardware, it counts

---

Not when it made decades latter with none of the issues that developers had to wrestle with back in the day or the tools much less the PC and modeling software around in early 90's.

Quote:

---

I never said it was designed by them, I said they were involved.

---

They weren't

Quote:

---

Nice to see I can still trigger you with one sentence

---

I know its fab and like old times :) .