Game Sack

The thing that bothered me with the TG-16 version, was how over saturated everything became. The arcade game used more muted, "realistic" colors to depict the scenes, but the TG-16 game went Crayola on everyone. The graphics have nice detail, but it lost some of the bleakness when the color shift was done. It became a little more... cartoonish. It's still a good port (though some of the sound effects really get on my nerves after a while), but I like the Genesis version more.

And are people really that bugged by the big, beefy explosions in the Genesis version? I liked them. They give the larger enemies dying some extra oomph.

I had no idea that the Playstation had perfect ports of Raiden 1 and 2, I may have to hunt that down. Too bad it's not on PSN, although I do see that Raiden 1 alone is on Asian PSN.

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Originally Posted by GohanX

I had no idea that the Playstation had perfect ports of Raiden 1 and 2, I may have to hunt that down.

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There are minor bits here and there that some of the more nit picky people have pointed out over the years, that keep the games from being perfect ports. But they're about 95% arcade perfect... which is close enough for me.

Considering I've never actually played the arcade game, only the TG16 port, I think that would be okay by me as well.

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Originally Posted by sheath

It sounds oddly familiar though. I'm not sure what it is but I recognize that "style".

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It sounds a bit like the synth instrumentation used in Road Avenger's CD-DA tracks and a few other old JP CD based games. (including some other FM Towns games -maybe Afterburner, same soundtrack was also used in ABIII for the FM Towns and MCD . . . and yes, Strike Fighter was renamed ABIII on the FM Towns too)

I know there's something that sounds particularly close in arrangement/instrumentation, but I can't put my finger on it either.

It also sounds a bit like some MT32 arrangements, but it's not quite right for that. (not sure what synth hardware was used . . . quite likely a mix of several synth units and drum machines rather than a single synth/MIDI module or keyboard)

Edit: maybe an Ensoniq synthesizer was used for some of that?

Oh, there's also the DOS game soundtrack (note it's from the same developers as the Jag game)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1YC0Bg6FVg


Plus the rather mediocre soundblaster/Adlib soundtrack of the floppy version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kD6QMdmJVs


Also, for some reason, the DOS/Jag game has some of the music changed. (the track used for stage 2 in particular)

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I actually kinda like it, but then, I don't like Raiden at all.

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I've had a lot of fun with it in 2 player mode, at least the Jaguar version (the only version I've actually played for a long period of time -and beaten, though it loops after you beat it).
I like Vapor Trail more though, both as a 2 player and a game in general, and for the art, music (especially), and gameplay style. (I like the 3 hit mechanics especially)

Both games are much better played 2 player . . . though I think a lot of games would be more fun with multiplayer options. (Silpheed comes to mind on the topic of overhead shooters ;))


Also note that the DOS game runs at full screen AND the right aspect ratio. (well, it actually might have the graphics stretched vertically if used on a 70 Hz monitor, or in DOSBox with aspect correct enabled -since 320x200 will get stretched to 4:3 . . . the Genesis version itself has slightly vertically stretched graphics it seems, so they're all probably assuming square pixel graphics and the 256 width games are just further off than the MD's 320 width mode -which has narrower than square pixels, but closer to square than the SNES/PCE's 256 mode) Running in 60 Hz (or DOSBox without aspect correct) should leave square pixels. (or you could manually calibrate your PC monitor in any case ;))

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Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners

Yep, the FM Towns arranged music is so much better...
The PS1 (the "PSX" misuse also bugs me, Joe!) soundtrack uses chip tunes (like some other early titles - MKII comes to mind), right?

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PSX was a term used during the development of the original Playstation and I believe was/is the common term used by software developers (not sure if it's actually referred to as such in any of the official Sony documentation/manuals) . . . there's a reason Chilly Willy usually refers to it as the PSX too. (that other "PSX" came much later)
PS1 makes sense too, but I tend to use PSX from force of habbit.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

If that FM Towns video above is anything to go by, it is one of the worst-sounding renditions of Raiden music I've heard.

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That video doesn't sound that great, but maybe that version is too 80's for you.;)

But my comment was based on the Raiden Original Sound Track:
Raiden / Raiden II Original Sound Track
Catalog Number INCD-E0106~8
Release Date Jan 31, 2006
Release Type Official Release
Release Price 3990 JPY
Media Format 3 CD
Classification Original Soundtrack
Published by Insanity Naked Hunter / 株式会社アイエヌエイチ
Composed by Akira Sato / 佐藤亜希羅, Go Sato / 佐藤豪
Arranged by Go Sato / 佐藤豪, KID

I remember that some instruments sounded really bad in the PS1 version compared to the FM Towns version, mainly in "Go to Blazes!".

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

PSX was a term used during the development of the original Playstation and I believe was/is the common term used by software developers (not sure if it's actually referred to as such in any of the official Sony documentation/manuals) . . . there's a reason Chilly Willy usually refers to it as the PSX too. (that other "PSX" came much later)
PS1 makes sense too, but I tend to use PSX from force of habbit.

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I knew about that, but I think the orginal term that you're refering to is "PS-X" that turned into PSX thanks to some magazines and gamers.
"PSX" is all over the web, Snesorama always use PSX to refer to PS1 for an example...

However, since Sony released the PSX some people may misunderstand the term, so I think that is "better" to use PS1.

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Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners

That video doesn't sound good. IDK what happen there.

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It sounds a bit tinny (unfiltered), but otherwise it doesn't seem much different from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIjRaxefChk

(aside from the SFX volume being lower)

It's CD-DA, so emulation shouldn't affect it either.

I also like the PC version's CD soundtrack (though not as much as the FM Towns, it's certainly better than the Playstation or PCE CD renditions -aside from the actual modifications of tracks, as in the Jaguar)

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Originally Posted by The Coop

The thing that bothered me with the TG-16 version, was how over saturated everything became. The arcade game used more muted, "realistic" colors to depict the scenes, but the TG-16 game went Crayola on everyone. The graphics have nice detail, but it lost some of the bleakness when the color shift was done. It became a little more... cartoonish. It's still a good port (though some of the sound effects really get on my nerves after a while), but I like the Genesis version more.

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If I had to guess, it was a trade-off made due to the color limitations of the PCE (9-bit RGB). To get good detail (and make good use of the large number of sub-palettes), you'd need to modify cart to cater better to the limited palette . . . otherwise you'd just have to posterize (and/or dither) the graphics to within the 9-bit color limits and thus waste the subpalettes to some degree. (using dithering along with good subpalette use would probably give the most arcade-accurate color/shading at the expense of being somewhat grainy -though careful use of color and simple checkerboard dithering could avoid much of that; where as simply posterizing would reduce a lot more of the advantage over the MD palette -as there would tend to be many fewer colors on-screen anyway, where the added palettes could be more useful if dithering were used -to allow more optimal selection of colors/shades for dithering)

The MD version also could have taken the dithering option (with less potential than the PCE), but it seems to have taken the extreme low-color/posterized option. (at the expense of detail -albeit you'd lose some of that to the small ROM size in any case, and you don't have the RAM of the Jaguar to load highly compressed data from ;) -after all, the Jag game is still only 8 mega power)

Though they probably could have still optimized the color better than the MD without much dithering and been closer to the arcade. (but probably with more detail loss/trade-offs compared to the existing PCE game)

I didn't notice any instruments sounding bad in the arranged PS versions. But they are using a really crappy synth on that FM Towns 1. It just sounds awful. It has absolutely no right to exist. I've heard Soundblaster MIDIs that sound better than that. There's no accounting for taste, I suppose, but I'm glad they didn't go with that soundtrack. In fact the arranged soundtrack is one of the reasons I think so highly of Raiden Project.

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Originally Posted by The Coop

And are people really that bugged by the big, beefy explosions in the Genesis version? I liked them. They give the larger enemies dying some extra oomph.

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For the bosses they'd be great. But for EVERY SINGLE ENEMY? Gets fatiguing very quickly, especially if you have speakers capable of producing decent bass. They should have reserved those sounds for the boss explosions.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

I didn't notice any instruments sounding bad in the arranged PS versions.

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Well, I really don't like the boss theme and maybe for the 2nd and 7th stage I'd prefer the FM Towns version too. I have to agree that the 1st stage theme is "weak" in the FM Towns. But I like that 80's arranged style, so it might influence my opinion.
That arranged style used in the FM Towns version is similar to many PCE CD versions and I like that...

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

It sounds a bit like the synth instrumentation used in Road Avenger's CD-DA tracks and a few other old JP CD based games. (including some other FM Towns games -maybe Afterburner, same soundtrack was also used in ABIII for the FM Towns and MCD . . . and yes, Strike Fighter was renamed ABIII on the FM Towns too)

I know there's something that sounds particularly close in arrangement/instrumentation, but I can't put my finger on it either.

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It reminded me of Garbage Favorite Game, which sucks because I really hate Gran Turismo 2. It also reminds me of Space Harrier's Main Theme at 2:05, but not nearly as closely.

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

I've had a lot of fun with it in 2 player mode, at least the Jaguar version (the only version I've actually played for a long period of time -and beaten, though it loops after you beat it).
I like Vapor Trail more though, both as a 2 player and a game in general, and for the art, music (especially), and gameplay style. (I like the 3 hit mechanics especially)

Both games are much better played 2 player . . . though I think a lot of games would be more fun with multiplayer options. (Silpheed comes to mind on the topic of overhead shooters ;))

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Yeah, I've never played it 2-player, I imagine that would make it more action packed. I just always feel like it is too slow and when I get shot down I tend to not want to keep playing. I don't think I've ever played it past the first level in any version.

how come no one mentioned Super Raiden for the PCE-CD?
it is Raiden + 2 extra awesome stages.

And Joe, you got things mixed up....
the FM Towns music is awesome. That arrange BGM in the PS1 version is the awful one. ;)

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Originally Posted by sheath

It reminded me of Garbage Favorite Game, which sucks because I really hate Gran Turismo 2. It also reminds me of Space Harrier's Main Theme at 2:05, but not nearly as closely.

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Some of MCD Silpheed's tracks (especially the CD-DA arrangements) are a bit reminiscent too, but I don't think that's what I was thinking of either.

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Yeah, I've never played it 2-player, I imagine that would make it more action packed. I just always feel like it is too slow and when I get shot down I tend to not want to keep playing. I don't think I've ever played it past the first level in any version.

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That's one of the great things about 2P mode too (for Vapor Trail too). You respawn without the game stopping and you (sometimes) drop some weapon upgrades when you die. (albeit that's less of a problem in the arcade version and some of the other ports that don't have direct respawn in single player too)

Unfortunately, the MD game doesn't have a 2 player mode at all.

Edit:
note that the Jag version has 2 player and also does instant respawn in 1p mode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjnwsWLPX0 (like the arcade and Playstation versions)

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

I didn't notice any instruments sounding bad in the arranged PS versions. But they are using a really crappy synth on that FM Towns 1. It just sounds awful. It has absolutely no right to exist. I've heard Soundblaster MIDIs that sound better than that. There's no accounting for taste, I suppose, but I'm glad they didn't go with that soundtrack. In fact the arranged soundtrack is one of the reasons I think so highly of Raiden Project.

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Sound Blaster you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kD6QMdmJVs

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Originally Posted by Kollision

how come no one mentioned Super Raiden for the PCE-CD?
it is Raiden + 2 extra awesome stages.

And Joe, you got things mixed up....
the FM Towns music is awesome. That arrange BGM in the PS1 version is the awful one. ;)

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The DOS version's arranged tracks are pretty great too . . . PCE not to much. (I especially don't care for how they emphasized certain instruments and made the lead too soft)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLA5PhULgvM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1YC0Bg6FVg

The DOS version isn't bad at all.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

The DOS version isn't bad at all.

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Sound Blaster or CD-DA?

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Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners

I knew about that, but I think the orginal term that you're refering to is "PS-X" that turned into PSX thanks to some magazines and gamers.
"PSX" is all over the web, Snesorama always use PSX to refer to PS1 for an example...

However, since Sony released the PSX some people may misunderstand the term, so I think that is "better" to use PS1.

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Why not just call it Playstation? The smaller version of the Playstation was called the PSOne. ;)