The Genesis wins! :ok:
Printable View
The Genesis wins! :ok:
Exactly, the Turbographx can't do Aladdin or Alien Soldier, the system needed upgrades its whole life, no other argument could hold up in court. The system was 8BIT and couldn't compare to the 16BIT generation. Just quit trying, your only making yourself look stupid.
Indeed, it certainly couldn't do sonic, unless we're talking master system sonic.
This thread needs more EvilEvoIX
The TG-16 can only do 8-bit fake parallax and even then only with bios and ram upgrades. Further proof that it is really only a 8-bit generation machine. Thats why there are zero card games using parallax. This is a fact. I dare any of you to show me just one game that does it. You cant. I know this because have a emulator and bookmarked all of the websites that have teh romz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Well there's at least Aero Blasters, Air Zonk and Magical Chase but you see, those games don't count, look at the library, I mean all the other games don't have it. The system needed all those upgrades to do it. The bios had new parallax stuff that made it all possible, those 3 games would never hold up in court. Just stop, you're contradicting yourself, I've played all the games, it could never do alien soldier although the FREAKING GAME GEAR pulled off Gunstar Heroes.
While I was in exile I found an interesting thread over at Magic Engine Forums about TG16 parallax.
Hmm, how to join in, how to ... oh it's too late isn't it?
:DYeah, Genesis wins this one...look at games like mega turrican, shadow of the beast(under ground section) or grand zort(third level) for the super grafx, levels that have two distinct background levels, where the foreground layer can move in any direction independent from the second layer, there isnt anything like that on the PCE, non super grafx pce of course.
Of course the Genesis wins, it has 2 backgrounds layers.
The SNES is still the best though, with 3.
Wait, does ninja spirit 2nd level do what i say cant be done, hell, i cant remember.
It can fake it pretty well:
Yep. Ninja Spirit 2nd level does the dynamic tile thang, branches and all, and and the two layers scroll independent from each other in any direction it seems, there are limitaions, like complexity of the tiles themselves.
Yup, 1. it must be a repeating pattern, and 2. they can only scroll in 1 direction.
Well, that is if you want a nice looking background like the one in Shubibinman 3 above (notice how the mountains and water repeat horizontally? Same for the buildings further in the back).
Parallax scrolling in 8 directions is possible IF the 2nd background is a simple repeating pattern (that repeats in 2 dimensions).
Well, if we're being serious, there are many PCE games that do that, it's just usually a tiled pattern like earlier Genesis games often use.Quote:
Originally Posted by awack
Like 4:40 and 7:40 in this video (OMG it's a HuCard! :shock:):
At 2:30 in this video, you can see two independent background layers scrolling in multiple directions, with a third independent multi-directionally scrolling transparent layer fading in and out, between the other two background layers. But if you look closely at the background layer furthest back, it actually has a fourth(!) layer scrolling behind it. So 1 layer bg hardware = 4 layers of overlapping bg scrolling.
Not bad for 8-bit, but it's obvious the bios doing it. ;)
But if we're comparing the theoretical potential of the 'hardware capabilities of the graphics chips' of the two consoles, when it comes to parallax, the Genesis can do more. Any/most tricks that the Turbo/PCE can do for layered backgrounds, the Genesis could also do and toss on another layer (although there might be too much slowdown in some cases).
The Turbo/PCE is certainly good enough at parallax for the time. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiLU3X3tiYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiLU3X3tiYA
This is a good example as well, start at 2:20, the BG layer is simple, but it scrolls right to left and up and down...ninja spirit is still the only example i can think of that has the completely independent two layers, im sure there are others, i just cant think of them off hand.
HA, i wasnt sure about taking this thread in a more serious direction, but i like talking about this stuff.
The first legend of xanadu has a ton of parallax in some of the boss areas:
Legend of Xanadu has much better sprite animation and scrolling than I am seeing in that video too.
Xanadu has beautiful layered scrolling(3)
It's a poor recording. The game is much smoother than that.
Also has some great parallax.
SNES has 4, though in that mode all layers are 2BPP =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Forgot that one, did any game use it?
Yoshi's Island uses it. Why do you think they went with that art style? 2BPP limitation =P Also Super Mario World.
you mean Megadrive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
Speaking of parallax, there's some crazy effect goin' on in this vid at 1:44.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpDwobzZW3s
S.o.S for Snes uses 4 background layers.Quote:
Forgot that one, did any game use it?
S.O.S. is an amazing game. Challenging as all hell though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryman123
Agreed, end thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellar Jetman
WOW, what a perfect argument!!! I couldn’t have said it better my self!!!
Glad to see you back evilevoIX.
But yeah, other than being a little tribute to that past thread, I really don't see the point in this.
Genesis wins by far.
True parallax vs dynamic tiles (which the genesis can do anyway, and better in realtime, although less if prerendered).
Not to mention it's the easiest system to do linescrolls. No HDMA or Interrupt bullshit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Thank you for having me back. I assume I was a casualty of these hackers and I simply joined this forum too late which I regret. This is a very addictive forum, very nice people; some dude just sent me a battery for free for my Sega Saturn! I need to find out who that was because I lost everything in the attack.
To avoid the massive shit storm we once had that the hackers mercifully destroyed by infiltrating our fine message board (almost forgive them for that) I will not participate in a massive point-by-point discussion between the TG16 and the MD. There were some neat tricks on the TG16/PCE that worked around the hardware limitations. That is one of my favorite things about classic gaming, having a system perform tasks and visuals that should not be possible.
Yes 2 months were gone from the forum, If you joined in those months then you lost your account.
Apparently there was a more recent backup but Melf's kid decided it would be a good idea to delete it :p
Ahaha oh man that's what kids do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I think he is trying to mock your argument on the subject of TG16 vs Genesis graphics.Quote:
Originally Posted by evilevoix
No I meant it, besides the TG-16 thread most of his posts were good.
The beginning of the thread was a bit of a laugh at his arguments though :p
I thought the Genesis did need to use interrupts, but interrupts for the VDP and not the CPU. (in the PCE's case, you've got a fast CPU with extremely fast interrupt handling, so that's not a real issue either -same reason interrupt driven sound is so efficient . . . a shame there weren't high-res interval timers to make that really flexible -without on-card add-ons)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Also, I think google's archives are still intact, so I could compile the posts from the TG-16 vs thread and post the htmls in a ZIP folder if anyone cares. ;)
You just set a bunch of values on a table, no interrupt related shenanigans to do linescrolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Yes there's barely any performance loss, but it's not as simple as just setting values on a table :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Nah, no need. Over 60% of that thread was just the same points being repeated over and over again with maybe 1 or 2 new bits of info (like Jorge Nuno's input on mid frame palette swaps).Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
If anything that info should be added to the wikipedia page.
Fixed the incorrect spelling of TurboGrafx in the thread title.... AGAIN!
That's something good about the 32x's super VDP too then. (use of line tables for per line scrolling, no tile/character support at all though, and only full-screen vertical scrolling in hardware)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
It ended up getting cut off just before the crazy troll-ish stuff anyway. (except blast processor was doing pretty close to the same thing since the first page of the thread -albeit with lower intensity)Quote:
Nah, no need. Over 60% of that thread was just the same points being repeated over and over again with maybe 1 or 2 new bits of info (like Jorge Nuno's input on mid frame palette swaps).
If anything that info should be added to the wikipedia page.
There were some interesting off-topic comments towards the end there though, maybe I should look for a few things to pick out. (amiga, planar graphics stuff, etc)
You guys are all nuts! The TurboGrafx-16 has 16 in the name, while everyone knows Genesis is the first book of the Bible, so it's a 1. That means the TG16 is sixteen times better! :p :D
So you're saying the 32X is two times better than the Turbo-Grafx-16? Ouch. ;)
Meh, such garbage, the atari 7800 is 7800 times better than the genesis!
or.. wait for it...
the Sharp X68000 :D.
MUHAHAHAHAHA
I win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Maybe I misread something, but isn't this method limited in terms or granularity (ie it only works for every 8 scanlines or something)?
EDIT: yeah, I think I misread something. I could've sworn somebody said something to that effect in this thread but I guess I'm mistaken.
I'd take the 7800 and definitely the X68000 over a 32x for real. In the past two years of reacquiring nes and genesis stuff, I still haven't been persuaded to put $25 into a 32x.