Fighter's Megamix uses more polygons? Where did they put these polygons?
VF2 Saturn:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...tourne_017.bmp
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...tourne_012.bmp
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...tourne_014.bmp
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...tourne_015.bmp
Fighter's Megamix:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...tourne_003.bmp
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...tourne_004.bmp
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...tourne_005.bmp
It's kind of hard to do a proper polygon comparison when you're not looking at the same characters/outfits at similar angles. So those pictures aren't really helpful.
Though just a wild guess, I'd imagine the walls for the arenas added on top of the fighters makes the amount of polygons used higher.
Look on the ground :P
This is because those games support lighting and VF2 and DoA do not. What you are seeing is a flat shaded lighting effect being applied to each polygon individually, so each polygon being at a different angle gets a different intensity of lighting applied to it. This makes each polygon appear more distinctly so you see the edges of each polygon more easily. Those rectangle-like lines are the edges of each polygon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Virtua Fighter 2 has no lighting on the Saturn, so there's no effect being applied to each polygon so they don't stick out. If you play the PC version and use the Saturn Models (Low Poly mode), and turn lighting on and off you will see those same kind of rectangular lines around each polygon.
? by 1995 the Mega Drive was 7 years old . Thats long enough for any console, people need to remember the Mega Drive came out in Japan in 1988Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
Yes looking over the added polygons needed for the 3D backrounds and the Fighting Vipers armour , AM#2 were also able to add more detail to the VF 2 characters like with Akria hair scarf/band coming and small little details like that that upped the polygon count over VF 2Quote:
Fighter's Megamix uses more polygons? Where did they put these polygons
not quite as they're in Saturn Last Brox which it's self has no lighting .Quote:
This is because those games support lighting and VF2 and DoA do not
The polycount on the Akira model seems identical to me.
Fighters Megamix probably had less space for textures due to the walls and the more detail-crazy Vipers models, but instead it had gouraud shading and lightning.
Although it's hard to tell with those wire frame screen shots, Akira's model is different between the two games and looks like it has a lower polygon count in Fighters Megamix. It appears to have been simplified a bit, most noticeably in the limbs. But perhaps extra sides were added in other areas?
Please provide a screen shot of where you see this in Last Bronx on the Saturn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
While I was watching FMM run in wireframe it looked like exactly the same model to me. I was focusing mainly on the thighs, arms and torso though. From what I can tell, between Virtua Fighter, Virtua Fighter Remix, Virtua Fighter 2, and Fighter's Megamix the VF characters did not change much polygon count or even model wise. Each game just seems to use different rendering approaches to make them look different on screen. The gouraud shading in Fighter's Megamix seems to smooth over the polygons, but the number of polygons is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...evo/VF2005.jpg
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...ics/FMM004.jpg
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...evo/VF2022.jpg
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...ics/FMM011.jpg
Has confirmed in Japan Saturn Magazine . VF 2 on the Saturn is using a lot less polygons than that found in VF mainly because of the VDP2 floor by also confirmed by AM#2 that the characters were also using less polygons as they were able to increase the detail with texture mapping / In the same Saturn bile , AM#2 confirmed that there were able to up the polygon count over VF 2 with Mega Mix as well as improve the compression and add in VF3 moves , both things AM#2 were very proud ofQuote:
From what I can tell, between Virtua Fighter, Virtua Fighter Remix, Virtua Fighter 2, and Fighter's Megamix the VF characters did not change much polygon count or even model wise. Each game just seems to use different rendering approaches to make them look different on screen. The gouraud shading in Fighter's Megamix seems to smooth over the polygons, but the number of polygons is the same.
Why is always muggings here than needs to scan items in or post pics? , but if I must ....Quote:
Please provide a screen shot of where you see this in Last Bronx on the Saturn
Here's Saturn VF 2 and Last Broxn running on the real deal and on a CRT TV ... I'll post far better pics when I'm off work and got more time
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/1...da2488f2_h.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5486/1...2ec32f7a_b.jpg
See the Model 2 and Tekken like have rectangle like lines/blocks making up their Arms (also the likes of Jeff in Decathlete have this too) Something which both DOA and VF 2 don't had as much imo
I only have free time to make short posts from my phone, so I can't post drawings to illustrate some of the differences in the pics at the top of this page. I'm pretty sure that in Megamix, Akira's hands never animate/open and are just balls.
The rectangle lines are simply the edges of the polygons TA. Nothing more, nothing less. In games with flat lighting it's more visible because the lighting is applied differently to each individual polygon. That's all that's going on here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Dead or Alive and Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn have ZERO lighting effects. That's why it's not visible on those games. Those screenshots are rather crummy too. I can't tell if those are actually the edges of polygons being visible or ghosting artifacts from your camera not being in sync with your CRT TV.
While they might not open for the idle animation, they do open for certain moves I believe. Jacky's hands in that one shot are partially open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
Fighter's Megamix may have more polygons possible for the characters with the Fighting Viper's characters on screen. Their Armor is obviously a lot more geometry, especially since it is destructible. The arms, torsos and legs seem to be made up of the same amount of polygons though. The arms and legs, or at least upper arms and thighs, are roughly octagonal from what I can tell, but the back facing polygons are culled I think. The torsos seem to be a beveled hexagonal cube sitting on top of a beveled upside down hexagonal pyramid chopped off at the top.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...onal_prism.png
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4822841436210234&pid=1.7
Nothing comes out remotely cylinder like in the actual polygons.
http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/107533700.png
I think the hands are essentially boxing gloves in all of these games, the thumb is opposable and the other four digits can curl into a fist and that is it. If the VF characters had any more polygons in them they would have been wasted by the low resolution for one, and we would see a lot more sub divisions in the primitives posted at the links above for two. The Fighting Vipers characters actually do have a lot more going on though.
Can you stop with the lighting . Last Bronx and Decatlete have zero lighting the arms just don't look as smooth as those found in VF 2 and DOA on the Saturn. Yes the pictures are shit and yes the mobile cam is not in sync , but lets see who clever you are after a 13 hour night shift and the need to take pics of your Saturn games running on real hardware and on a CRT ,more of a pain in the ass that just going to youtube and just linking a video that's for sureQuote:
Dead or Alive and Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn have ZERO lighting effects. That's why it's not visible on those games. Those screenshots are rather crummy too. I can't tell if those are actually the edges of polygons being visible or ghosting artifacts from your camera not being in sync with your CRT TV.
Nope that's not the case . Akira hands open and close :)Quote:
Akira's hands never animate/open and are just balls.
Or you could just use SSF, it's more than adequate for this kind of comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I'm not going to stop with the lighting because the lighting is the issue here. It may not be the issue with Last Bronx but it IS the issue with Virtua Fighter 2 and Dead or Alive. In the arcades those games use simple flat shaded lighting, on the Saturn they have no lighting whatsoever. If you apply flat shaded lighting to the Saturn Models using the same textures you will see the exact same rectangular lines you are complaining about. If you don't believe me take a look at the PC version shots sheath posted earlier. In the PC Version you can use the Saturn models and the higher quality Arcade ones. You are also able to turn lighting on and off. If you turn lighting off all those rectangular lines go away. If you turn it on they show up, even on the Saturn models.
Saturn Models without lighting:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...omp/VF2PC1.JPG
Saturn Models with lighting:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...omp/VF2PC2.JPG
GASP! The rectangular lines have appeared!
Arcade Models with lighting:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...omp/VF2PC4.JPG
Arcade Models without lighting:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...omp/VF2PC3.JPG
GASP! The rectagnular lines disappeared!