Even with the filters off it looks better. The game is not just simply upscaled. The game is being rendered in HD and the art assets for the 2D objects has been upscaled and touched up. As for the colors being off, are you sure your TV is calibrated properly?
Do you still have the game and Saturn hooked up to an RGB Scart TV play it and It doesn't look as good, the title screen shimmer is missing and the trouble is with modern displays is they lack that raw crispness you got (mainly because the HDTV is producing the better display) . It the old days on the old Arcade screens and our old TV when a game was using Hardware scaling and rotation you got that shimmer effect on the sprit when the sprit was being scaled or rotated and the lines around the sprite began to get more jagged . On modern displays or PC screen those old effects lose a bit of that rawness and crispnes,s really down because the TV display and in built scaler is just so much better . Nothing quite like seeing a sprite or bitmap getting scaled on a old system on CRT imoQuote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Most people wouldn't give a shit or careless but some do . I mean I really happy with MOTW on my DC, Metal Slug on my Saturn but the Neo Geo fanboys will point out the various differences to them and most Neo Geo games being played on emu and the DC fanboys will point out the tiny differences to games running on the DC to them running on PSN or XBox Live
My Saturn is still hooked up to a CRT, yes. I do not have a physical copy of Radiant Silvergun at the moment, but I have played it in SSF and I do own the XBLA release. What your TV is doing to the image here is irrelevant. What SSF gives us here is a pure clean image of exactly what the Saturn is drawing in RAM. The title screen is just a static bitmap on the CD. You can pull it out and look at it if you want. It's at a fixed resolution. The 360 version is the same exact image, only it's in a higher resolution so it looks even more crisp and detailed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Here are two screenshot comparisons for comparing the ship sprite:
Saturn:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/7...vergun2zj8.jpg
360:
http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/M..._Microsoft.jpg
As you can see, the 360 sprite is not just a simple upscale. It's been completely redrawn for HD and is crisper with more detail.
You do realize that the scaling and rotation effects are handled by the console, not the TV right? All the TV is doing is changing the color of each pixel on your screen. Nothing more, nothing less. And what you are saying here is completely different from the argument you are trying to make. The argument you are trying to make is that the image quality on the Saturn is better than the 360 port. In actuality you are saying you simply like the Saturn image more, even with all it's jaggies and low res pixels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
That's fine if that's your opinion and personal preference. But this is where you get into trouble all the time in these discussions TA. You try to pass off your opinion and personal preferences as absolute technical facts.
And it starts to look like a Flash game .Quote:
As you can see, the 360 sprite is not just a simple upscale. It's been completely redrawn for HD and is crisper with more detail.
The Saturn was never meant to be played on a monitor , the moment you try to play a Saturn on a PC Screen or a HDTV screen is the moment the Saturn display takes a hit .Quote:
What your TV is doing to the image here is irrelevant. What SSF gives us here is a pure clean image of exactly what the Saturn is drawing in RAM. The title screen is just a static bitmap on the CD
Yes but the effect losses out . I guess its one of the reasons why Yu Suzuki game works doesn't support VGA . Scailing effects just look better on the old displaysQuote:
You do realize that the scaling and rotation effects are handled by the console, not the TV right?
STV games like Radiant Silvergun were designed from the ground up to be played on an RGB arcade monitors. The moment you try to play Radiant Silvergun on any TV screen, the display takes a hit.Quote:
The Saturn was never meant to be played on a monitor , the moment you try to play a Saturn on a PC Screen or a HDTV screen is the moment the Saturn display takes a hit .
Yep unless of course you were happing to play ones Saturn on a lovely low Res monitor 15.7 Khz . So all Saturn games were always meant to be played on low Res screens, even in the ArcadesQuote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
It does not look like a flash game, it looks like an HD 2D game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Does DoDonPachi Resurrection look like a flash game to you too?:
http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/x3...702952-017.jpg
What if I play it in SSF on a CRT Monitor? Or if I hook my computer up to my CRT TV and play it in SSF and the image looks just as pixelated and low res? What then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
All SSF is giving us is an extremely pure RGB image of exactly what the Saturn is drawing. If it's low res in SSF, it's still low res on your CRT. I really don't care if you feel that RS looks better and is more crisp on your CRT in 240p, it doesn't change the fact that on the 360 it's rendering in full HD with redone art to make it look as crisp and clean as possible.
Or perhaps it was that they were budget releases and it was just cheaper and easier to keep them at 240p? A scaling effect will look just the same on a an HD TV as it does on a CRT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
RSG looks more of a flash game that DoDonPachi. Even worse is Guardian Hero's on XBLA with its ugly next gen fillterQuote:
Does DoDonPachi Resurrection look like a flash game to you too
Through S-Video yeah you're getting closer to the effect. But like playing Mega Drive or Snes games on Eum on the XBox hooked up through the XBox Scart. The effect isn't quite the same has having an actual Mega Drive hooked up through RGB scart . And I've yet to see PC Card with RBG output (most prob there's some).Quote:
What if I play it in SSF on a CRT Monitor
Well your wrong.Yu Suzuki Games Works wasn't a budget title at all but 5,800 yen at the time of its releaseQuote:
Or perhaps it was that they were budget releases and it was just cheaper and easier to keep them at 240p
I see no difference in clarity between either games. Neither look like a flash game. They are just HD 2D games with HD art assets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
As for Guardian Heroes, it's a toss up because they didn't redraw every asset, only the main characters and some of the larger enemies. If it really bothers you though, turn all that stuff off and play with the original Saturn art.
What about VGA? Component? I can hook my computer up to a CRT through either of those connections. But I guess those still aren't nearly as good as the amazing cable of the gods, RGB SCART.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
It may not have sold as a budget title, but I bet internally it was developed as one. Again, it probably has nothing to do with how the games would look when upscaled but more to do with the fact it would be cheaper and easier to just keep them at 240p.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Play SD consoles on SD equipment and HD consoles on HD equipment. Is it that hard? My Saturn is on my SD 25 Inch to Via S-video, it looks amazing, hooking it up to my Plasma it looks way off with a lot of artifacts. My Dreamcast via VGA however looks incredible.
Any serious classic gamer should have an older SD CRT, they are basically free now, go get one especially if it has Component input and just get a scart converter, you will be in RGB Sprite heaven.
I'll play my Saturn on my HDTV with RGB upscaled to 720p HDMI no problem, I don't have the option of playing it with S-Video on the HDTV unfortunately. PS1 games I play generally on the PS2 with Component output on the HDTV. The only way I can "view" S-Video on my HDTV is to down convert it to Composite, which is far from ideal. That is just the way I have to view SNES, Jaguar and 3DO unless I want to use the 27 inch SD set.
Genesis and Master System look great with RGB upscaled as well, and they never had the option for S-Video to begin with. I would not compare RGB output to emulation directly, emulation is way too sharp.
The Japanese Mega Drive had the XMD-3, which is what I usually use for s-video output.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Japanese Mega Drive also had Santa S-Video Unit:Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-Video-Unit...-/300946564880
Motor Toon characters and cars were designed by Susumu Matsushita, so it's no surprise they looked so great. I actually find it quite innovative for the time, especially considering stuff we have today like Pixar's Cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by saturndual32
It's a shame that dumb assholes over Sony in US didn't care to bring the game to the western audiences... Despite the improvements on the second game, the first one still has its own charm IMO and the racing mechanics were more straightforward... The 2P mode looked quite poor though, with some extremely simplified graphics (it might have been a reason to not being it to the US, who knows...).
A third game could have been awesome. I really wished they would have used the stock car-looking concept of the bonus game (Motor Toon Grand Prix R) and tried to pull off something running at 60 fps, it would have been awesome:
And yes, they use lots of gouraud shading with some textures here and there, it's an interesting concept IMO. If you like games using shaded polygons, I'd recommend you Tobal games:
Look @6:12
I'd like to know what, exactly, makes you think it looks "extremely detailed"... 'Cause I think the stages, for an example, look awful for the most part and the floor textures are pretty bland and have more texture warping than other PS1 fighting games released around 1997-1998.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
The lighting effects are also FAR from being any impressive compared to other PS1 games; but, of course, if you're comparing only to the Saturn games then you might find them anything good looking....
I agree that DOA is the best looking 3D fighter on the Saturn and it's a fair comparison to the later PS1 titles, since VF2 was released in 1995 and, by the time, the PS1 offering in the genre were quite awful in comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
However, I don't know why you say that "Playstation port had the characters turned into lifeless dolls"... The animation seems to be the same of the Saturn version, with some extra moves included IIRC and far better lighting (inferior background details though).
Agreed. Other than Tekken 3 been released worlwide and with some big advertising campaign in US - plus the general ignorance about the PS1 JP library, I really don't see any good reason to find it all that visually impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
Tekken 3 uses the resolution of 368x480, which is surpassed by other fighting games like DOA and Bloody Roar 2 which use the 512x480 resolution.
Tekken 3 uses some pretty basic lighting effects which aren't on par with DOA, Bloody Roar 2, Tobal 2 or Fighter's Impact; just to name some of them...
Tekken 3, as well as the whole series on the PS1, has some very poor presentation standards. Seriously, It's nowhere near on par with games like Star Glaadiator, Critical Blow, DOA, Bloody Roar 1 and 2... However, it does look decent though, unlike the first 2 games which have some very low budget looking presentation, surely not on par with VF2 on the Saturn released earlier than both. I always find Critical Blow quite impressive in such aspect:
Tekken 3 backgrounds are quite awful for the time, just plain static images and very uninspired ones to be honest... Tobal games, Fighter's Impact, Critical Blow, Bloody Roar games and, especially, Ehrgeiz deliver true 3D backgrounds at the same 60 fps of TK 3; some with stuff like cars running around (Tobal No. 1, Fighter's Impact) others with some animated 3D objects (Ehrgeiz, Bloody Roar).
Tekken 3 characters' animation is good at best IMO for the time of the release, and most of the movements look quite unrealistic; especially regarding the way the characters walk and connect the moves or when you realize how static feet and hands are for most of the time, unlike real martial arts.
Compare the Tekken 3 combos with this, release almost a full year earlier (this is the "training" mode of the PS1 version, that's why there's no floors or backgrounds):
I have to agree here. Compare it to the PS1 offerings released around the same time, they don't even come close. Tekken and Tekken 2 look AWFUL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Talk about pixelated floor and some lazy ass presentation:
Savaki does look nice for a Saturn fighter but, by the time, the PS1 had more impressive fighting games for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Zero Divide 2 uses low res characters on Saturn while hi res on the PS1; both running at 60 fps.
Thanks for answering my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Duke Nukem 3D on the Saturn looks good and runs very smoothly BUT it does have several lighting issues when compared to the original game or the PS1 version, as well as dozens of simplifications and cuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by saturndual32
You can see some minded comparison of the differences here:
On the shadows/lighting discussion:
Saturn games/ports usually lacked proper lighting and transparent shadows, though I don't think it hurts all games; VF2 actually looks less blockier due to that, hehe.
But, in some occasions, it gave me the feel of "bare bones" 3D to me, like in NFS. If you compare the 3DO, PS1 and Saturn ports, the Saturn one got the short end of the stick in such aspect; the sliding "smoke" effect is also far worse on the Saturn:
@2:04
@7:59
-Saturn version doesn't have transparent shadow for the car neither shadows/lighting over the car; see any sliding for some bad looking smoke effects.
-3DO's doesn't shadows/lighting over the car but does have transparent shadow for the car.
-PS1 version also has some "fading" effect to try to smooth out the drawing distance limitation.
I know this is slightly off topic, but folks were discussing it earlier in this thread so:
Do we really know for sure how many PC Engine consoles (all models, including PC Engine Express) NEC actually sold in Japan? IIRC, the commonly cited figure is 6-7 million, but that seems a bit too low for the obvious popularity of that console in that region.
Yep they look like shit .Quote:
it looks amazing, hooking it up to my Plasma it looks way off with a lot of artifacts.
Its a shame that only the WonderMega supported S-Video straight off . That said why the Japanese or the Americans were so happy with the shit that was RCA AV Cables or even S-Video is beyond me when RGB Scart was so much better .Quote:
The Japanese Mega Drive had the XMD-3,
I like Last Brox more myself - The characters look almost as good and Last Bronx 4 layer Parallax scrolling backgrounds and the amazing VDP 2 floor & ceilings just win it for me .Quote:
I agree that DOA is the best looking 3D fighter on the Saturn and it's a fair comparison to the later PS1 titles
Yep always said it was the Saturn lighting and complete lack of 3D support for Hardware transparent 3D effects that made Saturn games look worse than PS games, more so than lack of polygons imo . Though with regards to NSF the Saturn version runs at 30 fps which isn't reflected in that video sadlyQuote:
Saturn games/ports usually lacked proper lighting and transparent shadows, though I don't think it hurts all games; VF2 actually looks less blockier due to that, hehe.
But, in some occasions, it gave me the feel of "bare bones" 3D to me, like in NFS. If you compare the 3DO, PS1 and Saturn ports, the Saturn one got the short end of the stick in such aspect; the sliding "smoke" effect is also far worse on the Saturn:
That sadly isn't a great feature . Sure there's things cut out of the Saturn, but its not just the mirrors added inthe Saturn version , it also had glass windows that were missing in the PS version . So he's quick enough to pick about the Saturn, but not so the PS version . Also noting really said about the better lightings effects or the fact that the Saturn version supported Multi Player on-line PS Version sound way better though, but to me the Saturn version kicked the PS for GFX and is the better versionQuote:
as well as dozens of simplifications and cuts.
You can see some minded comparison of the differences here: