Zebbe and me where having a debate yesterday. He thought PS was better than the Lunar series and I wanted to see if most people agreed with that.
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Zebbe and me where having a debate yesterday. He thought PS was better than the Lunar series and I wanted to see if most people agreed with that.
I never said it was better than a series which has been remade almost as many times as Street Fighter II. I only meant the original Sega CD game, which I think has ugly colours, a broken magic system, too easy difficulty and a not as good soundtrack. How come your brought up Pier Solar when we talked about Lunar, anyway?
Cause Im currently playing Eternal Blue lol. Btw I only mean the Sega cd games vs PS anyways. Obviously can compare the Saturn and playstation versions to a genesis game.
You brought up Pier Solar because you are currently playing Eternal Blue? OK, makes sense. Also, it's kind of unfair to compare two games to one.
I haven't played Pier Solar so I can't make an assessment.
The first lunar is one of the most overrated games of all time (at least the Sega CD version).
Pier Solar has the advantage of not having terrible voice acting compared to Eternal Blue.
Subjective arguments, but I have to say that Lunar TSS has a better soundtrack than Pier Solar.
PS's graphics are definitely better, I'll give it that much. It's boring, poorly written, the menu is clunky and too sensitive when navigating, the battle system is tedious. Lunar has a lot of the same problems, but it's old.
Eternal Blue had some of the best voice acting for its time. VA wasnt taken seriously at all back then and Working designs efforts where much better than anyone else at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Lunar doesn't have ice bridges for the win.
What?! What?!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
I still have a copy of Lunar sitting in my car so I can rock out to the soundtrack whenever I want. I personally think Iwadare hit it out of the park with the SegaCD soundtrack, and all the remakes have only been getting worse. Granted, I only played Pier Solar for about an hour so far and nothing was surpassing Lunar:TSS, but I only have the reprint so I don't have the soundtrack CD to listen to the whole thing.
You can download and burn it via a link on our forum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm7d12UFxPo RuinsQuote:
Originally Posted by xelement5x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJME1...eature=related
Mountain Range
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXoLYGhV9t4 Dreaming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frnpR...eature=related Crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxi8Q...eature=related Final Battle
Pier Solar defanitly has some very kick ass music also. Lunar's still better but the Enhanced CD sound track is so good.
No back to back slippery tile mazes in either Lunar. A definite plus for me. :cool:
But seriously; Lunar TSS and Eternal Blue are games that I love and have played through multiple times. This makes it extremely difficult for me to give PS a fair shake when comparing these games.
I think I'll just enjoy PS on it's own merits without trying to force comparisons with games 15 years it's senior developed by a great developer at the top of it's game.
Thanks Watermelon!
Sorry not to jump in more on topic here, but EB's English language voice acting is uncommonly bearable for any generation game; Ruby's is particularly human (>>). In fact, it's better than any cartoon you'll find televised along with any US news program or television show that involves narration (US because that's the kind of English in EB). But I think The Silver Star was actually the one in comparison. So @ TSS vs Pier Solar = Pier Solar wins. I haven't played it, but I've seen it, and have played TSS, and that in combination with the particular moans I've found in every review (Gamefaqs, Joe Redifer, Melf) or post here make it unmistakable Pier Solar is the better game. TSS's dialogue, characters, and story are wholly repellent in an anime-for-the-West, Sailor Moon plush doll fashion. It's battle graphics and entire engine are 8 bit, tilting towards NES rather than the Master System's wide palette. Apart from the graphical poverty it really unites the failings of the early FF games with those of the late. Thankfully Pier Solar is the game that makes rpg nambies whine about not getting a new lv's worth of exp every combat, not getting infinite money to buy every good the first time they see it, not having an easy to automatic dispatch of every monster they encounter, not always knowing exactly what to do--because when you always know exactly what to do it's not an adventure, it's a grocery run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Sure, I oughtn't to defend a game I've never played, but it's hard to believe anyone who defends Lunar TSS has played it either.
Oh I agree StarMist. It's certainly better than most other games of the time. They ALL had terrible voice acting. The simple fact it HAS voice acting makes it worse. I can't stand Ruby (oh GOD I hate ruby), I can't stand Hiro (in the fight agains Ghaleon.. puke inducing), I can't stand Lucia... They are all annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarMist
The Pier Solar soundtrack isn't that great in parts, but it's also AMAZING in others, the final battle song in particular is great. Uplifting but urgent at the same time. Expertly composed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxi8Qj8nQS4
The FM version is equally good (How do I know? I stole the music player from the leaked CD, sorry :p).
PS looks good from a visual and sound aspect but what it lacks that lunar truly destroys it in ins lovable characters that develope through the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarMist
Spoiler about PS
At the end of PS instead of feeling an emotional revoke because of houstons choice instead you're left feeling the whole game was pointless. This is hugely due to the fact that the characters never build an emotions towards each other.
This defanitly cant be said about lunar which does a fantastic job of making you like characters and care about their stories.
I wouldn't describe Lunar's soundtrack as "rocking". It's more of a gentle synth. Much of it is elevator music.Quote:
Originally Posted by xelement5x
I havn't played Pier Solar but from what iv'e seen it looks crisp and i commend Zebbe and the team for producing this masterpiece.
Maybe one day i can afford to buy it lol:D
But can't judge the game until i play it through.
EDIT: and to all the haters out there,why don't you you make a entirely new Megadrive game from scratch then manufacture it and sell thousands of copies round the world, and then tell me Pier Solar sucks.
End Of:mad:
I'm one of the few who voted PS. I did because I think PS benefited from advances made in RPGs over the last 15/20 years. Not just in graphics or sound, but the way RPGs work in general. That and I like the writing for PS better. Lunar may have been a good translation, but it's still a translation of an odd Japanese story.
Shut up. You haven't even played the game you opinion is moot. Also I don't think anyones saying PS sucks. I of all people have supported this project forever. The point was Zebbe said it was better than Lunar. Lunar is and always will be the best rpg Segas has every gotten. Also Grandia too. Both not suprisingly from GameArts.Quote:
Originally Posted by turntablist1210
Eww, Grandia? That game was too boring for me to finish. Anyway, you saying Lunar is the best is a matter of opinion, nothing more. You cannot objectively say "Lunar is the best Sega will ever have".
Is Sega making new systems? If not Lunar is the best Sega will ever get rpg wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
Panzer Dragoon Saga blows Grandia and Lunar out of the water. That's not to say either of them are bad games, however. I would agree that Lunar is arguably the best 3rd party RPG on a Sega system. It's still not as good as Phantasy Star IV, though.
Thats a tough call. PS4 is great. However the CD quality music and cut scenes in Lunar make me side with it. Also the fact that it has voice acting is a plus to me even though most people see it as a negitive. Had ps4 came out on the mega cd as originally planned I think it would probably be the best Sega Rpg ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry coeurl
In your opinion. This is not a fact. I'm wondering if you even know the difference. How old are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clessy
Joe, you're forgetting "Fighting Through the Darkness"! I feel like the 80's is still alive every time I hear it in the beginning. There is a lot of mellow stuff, but there's a lot of variety overall, that's probably why I like the album so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
I actually didn't vote in the poll though since I didn't think it would be fair since (like I mentioned) I haven't heard the whole Pier Solar soundtrack. Though, I've got such nostalgia goggles for Lunar I doubt I could let myself vote for anything otherwise.
Clessy- Grandia is actually by the same composer who did the Lunar soudntracks, Noriyuki Iwadare. A lot of his stuff is pretty recognizable and almost always in GameArts games.
I voted for Pier Solar. While the Lunar games are definitely both very good, the storylines in them are a little uninspired. Typical ultimate good vs evil that you get with basically every JRPG, it's well done an all, but nothing special. Also, the characters in Lunar I always thought were pretty bland, with the exception of Nall, the rest of them have very little personality. Pier Solar on the other hand has an awesome storyline, with blurred lines of good and evil, which is a refreshing change to see in an rpg. The characters are also interesting, and while they do fit the typical rpg character cliches a little bit, they maintain enough personality to be interesting and memorable.
I love Lunar:TSS. Then I read this post. I voted Pier Solar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clessy
In what way have you supported PS forever?
I don't care for the English opening of Lunar. I haven't heard the Japanese version but it has got to be better. The singer just isn't very good. She was also in Cosmic Fantasy on the Turbo CD.
Here you go:Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
Also the extended Japanese version:
thisQuote:
Originally Posted by yuleeyahoo
I voted for Pier Solar. It's the only RPG ever I've really enjoyed.
;)
Come now StarMist, let's not exaaaaaaggerate. (/Emperor_Magus_mode off)Quote:
Originally Posted by StarMist
Honestly I've seen better looking NES games then Lunar the Silver Star.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaitheous
Weird and unfair comparison... But I'll take it.
I really like the PS's soundtrack and the use of Sega CD as a sound enhancer is a great plus IMO. I like its graphics style and GUI design (as a programmer, I know how much effort was put there to make the things look and work great)...
Lunar is kinda legendary series and it's always hard to stand against such games... There's a nostalgia component that PS will never be able to give you, of course... The awesome cutscenes that only CD-based games can provide... A lot of things.
But I think PS has more appeal to me in some ways... I think its storyline and gameplay are are easier to get into, and as a most-arcade-like gamer I prefer the things this way. The CD soundtrack is really great IMO and I like to be able to choose between FM and PCM during the game (it's like having two soundtracks for the same game...).
So you voted for a game that you didnt think was the better out of spite? Totally mature. Plus its not hurting my feelings either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breetai
Constantly on the forums supporting them. Was one of the first to order the game and bought a posterity edition. I also have told almost everyone I know about it. 5 of my friends bought the posterity version of the game based off of my opinion of it alone.
Its a great game its just no lunar.
It makes you the Pier Solar's #1 sucker! Congratulations!Quote:
Originally Posted by Clessy
It's funny you said that, my wife saw me posting that last comment with the original uber 80's opening and was like, "not that song again!", so I played here the MegaCD opening and she's agreed that it's much better. I guess my sarcasm in that comment didn't come through that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
In the translation notes for TSS (only on copies with foil embossed manuals) Vic Ireland even talks about how he completely changed the meaning of the words to make it fit with the tempo of the song better. I would debate the value of that, but I've got a love/hate relationship with a lot of the Working Designs translations.
I suppose I'm 'Hater Prime' when it comes to responses like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by turntablist1210
Moot points. The useless noise of a white knight. Commending them on their efforts, and acknowledging you can't judge the game until you've played it is one thing. Arguing that criticism needs to be justified by doing an equal or better job is just obtuse.
WM have done a great thing bringing out a new genesis game, but should that spare their product from criticism? No. Should their staff's behavior be tolerated if they constantly spew delusional self serving praise at the expense of ridiculing other efforts? No, it should be mocked in return or ignored.
Every post like this, where blind praise is built upon ignorance serves to cheapen the whole pool of positive feedback the game gets and may as well deserve. This point seems lost when it comes to Pier Solar. There's a circlejerk of homebrew white knights who ignore or shit on any opinion they don't agree with.
I stand by different principles when it comes to things like this, and I don't preach them to others:
If a mouthpiece for the developer takes to discussion and spews smarmy self serving praise at the expense of others, and then claims any backlash at their expense is trolling. Then that developer isn't worth supporting. White knights who defend them for being poor, or say we should be thankful at all, are idiots.
At the end of the day, it's only a game. It looks good, it sounds good, I wouldn't compare the musical compositions to an established classic such as Lunar TSS, since both are effective. I would compare either game's ability to tell a story. Pier Solar drops the ball. Those who criticize Lunar as being cliche JRPG anime tripe seem to forget that the game was a genre blueprint in it's own right, you can't count how many shitty RPGs follow the same simple formula these days, but you'd have a hard time finding many before it that were as good. To each his own.
To sum up my recent points in either thread,
In my opinion PS is not worth buying. It's overpriced because of scarcity, and disappointing because it's shallow despite the hype behind it.
The only Lunar I'd compare Pier Solar to is Dragon Song on the DS. They're both equal in my eyes, flawed when trying to be different, and constantly begging for a players patience when driving the plot along.
^very nice read
I have to say Pier Solar just because I cannot stand anime, and the Lunar games just scream Japanophile in the basement to me. No offence! :)