:cool: Who think Genesis is the king of 16-bit music
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:cool: Who think Genesis is the king of 16-bit music
:cool:
Although I'll admit that the SNES had a better sound chip, I'd argue that the Genesis had a greater quantity of cool memorable tunes. Sega also had Howard Drossin.
LOL. Here we go AGAIN!!!
yea, these "who thinks the genesis rules!?" or "genesis is the best console eva!" are true
but it just feels like spam threads after made SO MANY TIMES.
I mean, why are you asking such a question to a site that is DEDICATED to the console ffs
True weve had this before come to think ov it, i revoke my post!
I agree. Sega Genesis music rules all:
Seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro21xx
yes, but whatever, here's more music,Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSciFi
Yeah, King...except that a lot of the music sounds like adlib midi, and not in a good way.
I was thinking the same. I enjoy Genesis music as much as the next person here, but I don't think some of these samples used so far are setting a good example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardcat
Gotta love the music in the genesis version of Ys III.
Genesis has lots of fun games, but I find the audio of most of them to be just flat.
There are a few shining examples of where the developers really did something special with the hardware, Castlevania Bloodlines comes to mind as one of the Genesis's best sounding games. Its very atmopsheric and full of Oomph! And Capcom did a very good job of coming extremely close to getting the music in SFIICE sounding very arcade faithful. Tommy Tallarico's tunes in Robocop vs the Terminator are also excellent. The Genesis does great techno music, which that game is full of, but if you want a rich, orchestral sound(as orchestral as early 1990s audio hardware can get), the SNES wins hands down.
I have to agree with you there.
There are several genesis soundtracks that kick ass, But majority of em are average to below average quality.
Best sounding games? Castlevania's music is great because of the composition, but technically is far below what the Genesis can do. Heck, it doesn't even have any PCM percussion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardcat
Tommy Tallarico is a great artist and his productions on Genesis are really excellent. Don't forget Chris Huelsback (Turrican 3), that makes the Yamaha chip sing even better than the SNES one.Quote:
And Capcom did a very good job of coming extremely close to getting the music in SFIICE sounding very arcade faithful. Tommy Tallarico's tunes in Robocop vs the Terminator are also excellent. The Genesis does great techno music, which that game is full of, but if you want a rich, orchestral sound(as orchestral as early 1990s audio hardware can get), the SNES wins hands down.
I think that Contra's music is one of the best examples of what you can do with Genesis, and probably can't on SNES.
On the other hand, orchestral music is top on SNES, I love Knights of the Round OST.
Yeah, Castlevania Bloodlines doesn't even use PSG iirc.
MD games have lot of good compositions but also a lot of crappy and tinny sounds. But there are games with great compositions and also with great sound.
I can't believe you guys post GEMS based tracks as examples of what the Genny is capable of... :o
- It's like posting Capcom's Final Fight 1 music as an example of what the SNES is capable of.
PS: A list of sound drivers used in various games can be found here: http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index....nd_Engine_List
^Good point. I'd rep you for that, but I must spread some first. Bio Hazard Battle sure does have excellent music. And I'll raise you:
P.S.> You did mean "known gems" as oposed to "hidden gems", right? ;)
I was referring to the GEMS sound driver. I really dislike the sound it produces (annoyingly tinny MIDI-style FM). Practically all the other sound drivers sound excellent, just not the regular ones used in the West (Gems, Accolade, EA - with EA's being the best of the bunch I guess).
Yes, yes, a million times YESQuote:
Originally Posted by eddiespruce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KFGt...03035&index=10
On that YouTube channel you can click to compare it with the SNES and PCE (Turbo CD) versions, IMO the Genesis wins hands down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igykicNTDbE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63RFBGxg_oo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEnYrJynuSc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgdpfeM8evU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxQAfSsFBDc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIf46GaI7Qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTjh0mVzbRk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT6pYvAkJcA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b85-fJ2SqF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-TbwzXONEU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv-J3eKTAm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUN0Vtx35-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWsbLSFuMi0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61NxLQeoBw0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Pp88yQwpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XESY03cs04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGHoP_iIMfw
Shit there's just too many...
It's still really interesting to find the really good examples of GEMS music though. ;) The Earthworm Jim games and Comix Zone are probably the best (at least of commercially released stuff), though both also used custom instrument patches (one of the biggest problems was the limited default instrument set). Though Lava Powerhouse was pretty good (probably the best track in the game), and a few other "normal" GEMS games had some good music . . . Vectorman tended to stylize the music to the default instruments and Toy Story either did that or used custom instruments. (sounds more like the defaults, not sure)Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
Oh, and here's a better example of Vapor Trail (your post was a bit muffled and had distorted PCM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IDvmCibcuA
Hey, it's fun to compare :) They also remixed the staff roll for Skull Fang, but sadly it's not on YT.
Being MIDI has nothing to do with it . . . it's more up to the features/technique/instrument patches used (and, aside from cases where composers knew how to program custom patches, the instrument set was pretty limited). I'm not sure about some things though . . . like adding more "depth" to music with paired channel echo effects (which, if not supported directly, should have been possible via sequencing for 2 channels correspondingly). Use of Echo was something sorely lacking in many GEMS tunes and PC MIDI stuff too. (and one of the reasons Wacky Wheels' soundtrack is even more contrasting to other PC OPL2 MIDI tracks . . . on top of excellent composition/arrangement catering to the hardware ;))Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
Some pretty good tracks were managed with the definitely GEMS instruments, and some really nice (possibly truly great) ones were managed with custom patches.
Matt Furniss used a midi/midi-like sequencer/tracker with the Krysalis engine (using an Atari ST, interestingly enough) and was among the very best sound set-ups ever for the MD. I believe Tiido's driver also has sequencer support.
It's, admittedly, a shame that GEMS wasn't made more flexible/feature rich for the non-programmer (or total FM ignorant composers for that matter -reliant on default instruments only), or that Sega couldn't/didn't license the Krysalis engine (or made licensable in general).
Oh, and the one other good quality vapor trail recording of the MD version on YT (in addition to the 2 above).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSssZMGDozU
A big part of it is the sound programmer and composer too . . . not in terms of designing the engine/driver, but manipulating it to get good results (be it high level or low level) . . . or working well with FM synth (and limited PCM) in general.Quote:
Practically all the other sound drivers sound excellent, just not the regular ones used in the West (Gems, Accolade, EA - with EA's being the best of the bunch I guess).
Some of the techniques used in electronic music in Japan and Europe took longer to take hold in the US it seems (iirc, gecko brought that up in my PC music/sound thread). Tommy Tallarico was certainly among the best US video game composers of the time though. (interesting to note that he explicitly commented on how MIDI support was a huge boon to his composition)
You also seem to have totally left out Europe in your "west" comments . . . no mention of NovaTrade's engine, and (perhaps most critically) none of the Krysalis engine Furniss used. (one of Tiido's personal favorites and definitely responsible for some of the very best compositions on the MD)
Alien 3 is often mentioned among a few others (like Micky Mania and Mortal Kombat I/II), but a couple of my favorites come from F-15 II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsfs4TAWApA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QDym_m5nNc
(this one especially . . . though you've got to wait a minute for the really nice part to start ;) -really nice FM, including some stylized PSGish sounds done in FM)
And back to Tallarico, you've gotta love EWJ2's tracks (really nice on SNES too, better than the MD at times even -unlike some previous examples that ended up more mediocre on the SNES compared to his MD renditions) and some nice tracks in Madden 96 come to mind in particular.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtUf3lzxHF8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPvpgzJzNE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bP8epF40MY
(nice rendition of moonlight sonata ;))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9AYz6CIq2E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCVkjLx9LPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIRU6FMTcgU
Oh, and (in the west list) how could I have left out Chris Huelsbeck's work with the Audios Wave Slave engine!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdY4EKAcW4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYHNvYSgEAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omuVBg0G8Yw
(this one is better in 50 Hz though . . . I think the whole soundtrack was composed in 50 Hz and uncorrected, but some are fine in 60 Hz or even improved at the faster tempo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Br4w8KkMPw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb1d3M3iOCc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59TfMJfS5XY
Gynoug was one of my favourite games back in the day and I loved listening to these two tracks again and again.
I can't believe no one has mentioned this:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofyMf3mzKjo
I feel that Genesis music has aged a lot better than most SNES music. All that cheesy fake choir stuff may have been impressive in the 90s, but it sounds silly now. The synth electronic sound of the Genesis sounds a lot better to me. I used to be all for the SPC700 but listening to it now, I just don't hear it like I used to. It just sounds like a bunch of pieced together samples being played from under a pillow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardcat
What do you mean by sequencer support ? There's no sequencers anywhere, but a tracker you run on PC in which you make music and which output files you use on MD that TMSE can play.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
NovoTrade used GEMS, and I personally don't think anything special about most tunes... its all mostly sounds one gets when one touches FM for the first time, with very few lovely tunes here 'n' thereQuote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
what engine is used by Gynoug and Hellfire? Awesome music all around.
Also Jesper Kyd and ABR kicks ass.
The SNES definitely does the orchestral stuff better than the Genesis/MD. There is no question of that. But what is such music really good for? RPGs, mainly. It was also put to good use in ActRaiser. But by and large, orchestral sounds just aren't very appropriate in most games, I feel.
Yours sounds a bit artificial, like someone cranked the treble way up. The Vapor Trail in his post was played back on a Model 1 non-TMSS Genesis. Mine, in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Gawd, I love me some Vapor Trail music. So I'm reposting the video link...
Hmm, I thought Novotrade used their own engine (which is what the SMSPower sound engine page listed), though it does sound pretty similar to GEMS. (if so, Ecco would probably be the earliest game to use GEMS)Quote:
Originally Posted by TmEE
If it is GEMS, then they did a fairly good job at catering to the style of the default instrument set. (a bit subdued sounding, but not overly flat or cheesy/generic sounding like a lot of other GEMS/EA/etc stuff)
I thought Lost World might be a better example of the sound engine, but looking again, it sounds more bland/generic than the Ecco games.
Other than the limited default instrument set, one of the biggest issues/differences in most GEMS (and similar) music and some of the better MD compositions is lack of any echo/reverb effects (ie with channel pairing). That's probably one of the most lacking areas in PC game FM compositions of the time too (and one of the things that stands out in Wacky Wheels). I think Gecko Yamori made a point about this issue in the PC sound/music thread I started.
There's some pretty nice sounding orchestral compositions done in FM, though mostly using stylized instruments not trying to stick to conventional orchestral instruments alone (though including a fair amount of synthesized orchestral instruments).Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
Most of such examples I can think of are in RPGs (including several PC88/98 games), though there are probably some others too. (less so if you lump action/adventure games in with RPGs as well -since those genres are some of the next most likely to use that style)
Likewise there's some games using orchestral instruments on the SNES for not so orchestral music styles. (some of Star Fox's stuff is a mix between, though some is largely orchestral in composition too)
Hmm, you're right . . . it sounds much like that on my model 1s as well. I'm not sure what was done with that other recording (this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IDvmCibcuA ), but it doesn't just sound like Fusion with no filter (or CCAM or CD-X), but seems like it may have had additional filtering of some sort. (the percussion samples sound less distorted -namely the cymbal crash- and I'm not sure what would be used to achieve that)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
Some of the Megadrive music is awesome. I love the Streets Of Rage series music and Thunder Force 4 too. fair play there were some very talented people dealing with the sound side for the megadrive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
EXACTLY.
yes! i can die happy now!! i just looked at that game list, and sure enough, every Genny game i have ever heard
that has that certain, distinctive "grungy" character about it's soundtrack all use this "GEMS" driver!!
i've wondered for YEARS about those certain games whose soundtracks drive me bat-shit crazy every time i hear them,
and now i finally have the suspect's number!! thank you!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OqMvZOAE9tE
this is da bomb
Some of My favorite music!
Yeah its all from my youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8oDfAGo9P8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afu8_6zYTi4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOPZZ6Wq_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=904aGdEof-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t63nJqol_10
Another company that i love the most when it comes to games music is Natsume, their NES releases are da bomb. Games like Kage (Shadows of ninja) and Final Mission (SCAT). I always think these titles will really rock on Genesis but they never release it on Genesis, I hope someone remake these games on Genesis :)
Some NES Music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWcZuPk6sw8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8gVx6EBT3o
Repost because awesome and everybody needs to hear it at least THREE TIMES:
This makes you want to jump into a fighter jet and bomb some terrorists.
Vapor trail, sure its great, here's the arcade version for comparison :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT7Lnn6lIFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miU3baQxJ_I
And here's the other uber awesome tune from the game, the only part that's worse than the arcade is that badass riff after the intro, they should have used a sample just for that.