Doom DOS vs Doom PS1

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

If he was John Carmack then fair enough, but even John Carmack doesn't come across as a Big headed tw*t.; John Carmack doesn't need to say he is the best, that only his voice opinion is the authority.
Nothing worse in life than a Big headed know it all that likes to shout about it . At the end of the day , none of here are Yuji Naka, Carmack, Geoff Crammond or the like (otherwise we wouldn't be posting here ) There's a million and one hobbyist programmers onthe web.

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Carmack WROTE Doom - but I'd bet he probably still has people (who cannot program themselves) try to tell him how things work. ;)

Certain programmers have become celebrities in the computer world - the rest of us with skills nearly as good (and in some fields, better) have to put up with yahoos who think they know everything telling us stuff they know nothing about and then insulting US, saying we're "big-headed" or worse when we point out realities from our position of knowledge. I've posted enough code on enough platforms here and a few other sites people here frequent that I've proven my abilities, so anything I say on the subject that is NOT opinion should be accepted unless you can back it up yourself with verifiable evidence. Instead, they insult me in an effort to discredit my authority since they have NONE of their own.

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I'm not a fan of Doom at all (it's one of the most overrated games of all time imo) but I've played/owned the PS, Jag, 32X, Dos, Saturn version of the game . And what it lacks in colours and piss poor sound, the Dos version makes up for it with slightly better GFX and framerate imo

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DOS Doom DOESN'T have better graphics, it has MORE variety of worse graphics. If you consider that "better", you're welcome to it, but most people won't consider MORE dog crap to be BETTER than fewer donuts. ;) :D

That last analogy is a little over the top, but it makes the point people keep ignoring. If you like more textures in DOS Doom, say "I like that DOS Doom has more variety of textures" instead of the completely inaccurate "DOS Doom has better graphics."

You can't remove huge chunks of what made the original what it was, and call it superior. Smaller textures, scaled back animations, missing enemies and levels, and they did a terrible disservice with the soundtrack! 24-bit color with some fancy lighting does not make up for what was lost in translation. Even their "replacement" levels are lame with the exception of "Club Doom", which is not a proper substitute for "Wolfenstein" or "Grosse".

They even cut the final boss from Doom II, for crying out loud.
PSX Doom is George Lucas'd Doom. "We're changing a bunch of stuff you loved from the originals, adding superfluous fluff, and hope you'll think its better, because it's being presented on 'superior' technology!"

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Carmack WROTE Doom - but I'd bet he probably still has people (who cannot program themselves) try to tell him how things work

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I would imagine so. Carmack may be one of the best programmers in our generation, but I've yet to see him come out and say I'm the expert don't question me.
He'll just states his view and leaves it for other to judge , that and of course he has more than enough games on retail for people to judge how good his actual programming is. Rather than shout his mouth on the web or to his mates (not a dig at you) . Carmack went out there, made it and let his code do the talking

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saying we're "big-headed" or worse when we point out realities from our position of knowledge.

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I'm not calling you a Big head for lack any of knowledge, more for the fact you had to come out say you're an Expert - rather than just leaving you detailed posts do the talking , you had to come and say it . That to me is a Big Head and very cocky one at that.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

I would imagine so. Carmack may be one of the best programmers in our generation, but I've yet to see him come out and say I'm the expert don't question me.

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Instead he deletes the posts. He doesn't get onto forums like this where he isn't allowed to delete posts. Also, given his reputation, I'd bet that the mods would instantly ban anyone trying to pick a fight with him, which would mean he wouldn't need to go to such lengths.

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I'm not calling you a Big head for lack any of knowledge, more for the fact you had to come out say you're an Expert - rather than just leaving you detailed posts do the talking , you had to come and say it . That to me is a Big Head and very cocky one at that.

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I was dealing with a VERY persistent troll who ignored all facts and yet still kept yammering about my qualifications... and the mods let him despite everything I've posted here at SEGA-16 to date. The mods need to be a bit more proactive on the trolls. He didn't even get a warning for insulting, rude, fighting behavior.

Maybe because they think you're a big boy who can fend for himself? Man up. You're coming off as "He hurt my feelings! Do something about it Mods, you're my personal army!"
IMHO, it might have been your "I'm the expert! I know all! You're wrong despite being factually correct, because I'm the expert!" spiel.

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He doesn't get onto forums like this where he isn't allowed to delete posts. Also, given his reputation, I'd bet that the mods would instantly ban anyone trying to pick a fight with him, which would mean he wouldn't need to go to such lengths

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No he just gives interviews to the print and video media, where it's all but impossible to change what's been said when it goes LIVE... But what ever.

Mind you I'm sure Carmack said Quake was impossible on consoles at 1 stage, what does he know eh ?

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I was dealing with a VERY persistent troll who ignored all facts and yet still kept yammering about my qualifications.

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And that makes it ok, to have to lower your self to the posts of 'I'm the Expert' ECT. Posts like that , just make you come across as an arrogant big headed tw8t , who doesn't like ever being questioned; Now it's quite clear you know your stuff, do you really have to resort to calling in the Mod's or making out that only you know your stuff, only you are the expert on Doom ?. You may not have meant it way, but its the way it came across to me and to me you're far better than that

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

And that makes it ok, to have to lower your self to the posts of 'I'm the Expert' ECT. Posts like that , just make you come across as an arrogant big headed tw8t , who doesn't like ever being questioned; Now it's quite clear you know your stuff, do you really have to resort to calling in the Mod's or making out that only you know your stuff, only you are the expert on Doom ?. You may not have meant it way, but its the way it came across to me and to me you're far better than that

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If you argue with your doctor, he's eventually going to ask you "Who's the doctor here?" This was the same thing... I was pointing out that he's a gamer while I'm the programmer. He might not like my diagnosis, but that just means he's ignoring our relative qualifications. Yelling at your doctor won't make you any less sick.

Guys, stay on topic pleae :(

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

If you argue with your doctor, he's eventually going to ask you "Who's the doctor here?" This was the same thing... I was pointing out that he's a gamer while I'm the programmer. He might not like my diagnosis, but that just means he's ignoring our relative qualifications. Yelling at your doctor won't make you any less sick.

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The trouble with Doctor's is 'some' of them think they're GOD's and their views are beyond Question. Now you're not the only programmer and you don't have to be a programmer to cast judgement on which version of Doom one think is the best, It's all subjective.Or what next mate, we have to be Film director's, Producers before we can cast judgement on which film is best ? .

When it comes to Doom, I think the PC version looks the best (out of the Jag,PS, 32X, Saturn ports) . But like I've always said, I think it's very unfair to compare a grands worth of PC gaming to a £300 console.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Or what next mate, we have to be Film director's, Producers before we can cast judgement on which film is best ?.

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Two words why that is a terrible idea! Uwe Boll. :D

I think I will use this to rest my case on the matter of Dos Doom's superiority.

DOS
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...ll-started.jpg
PSX
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...mate-dooms.jpg
All of the colored lighting and 24 bit niceties can't explain this away!

some pics i found while goooooogling "dos psx doom"

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/27454241

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7546/doompc.png
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2281/doompsx.png

Missing details aside, note how the color banding and desaturation gives the DOS version a creepy, ambiguous look. The artifacting inadvertently lends interesting color changes in dim light levels (walls to the left vs walls to the right). The PSX version looks flat.

Thats even more telling than the pair of shots I found, and the altered level geometry is rearing its ugly head in those shots too!

We need to lighten it up a bit in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f7gW...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMdVCIdbXb4&feature=related

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Originally Posted by Bastardcat

Two words why that is a terrible idea! Uwe Boll. :D

I think I will use this to rest my case on the matter of Dos Doom's superiority.

DOS
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...ll-started.jpg
PSX
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...mate-dooms.jpg
All of the colored lighting and 24 bit niceties can't explain this away!

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You just proved my point - you used a screenshot from an updated source port for "DOS" Doom. That "DOS" Doom is 640x480 with hires rendering... which DOS Doom is incapable of. As I've said before, quite a few people here are thinking of UPDATED SOURCE PORTS when they think of DOS Doom instead of actual DOS Doom.
:shame:

Perhaps you might be slightly excused for the confusion since it's Moby that posted the image, but it doesn't make it any more correct.

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Originally Posted by blobolonia

some pics i found while goooooogling "dos psx doom"

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/27454241

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7546/doompc.png
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2281/doompsx.png

Missing details aside, note how the color banding and desaturation gives the DOS version a creepy, ambiguous look. The artifacting inadvertently lends interesting color changes in dim light levels (walls to the left vs walls to the right). The PSX version looks flat.

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Again, notice that the "DOS" Doom is 640x400 with hires rendering. This is NOT DOS Doom, it's an updated source port. Look at the edge of the ceiling above you... if it were DOS Doom with the screen expanded to twice the size (320x200 -> 640x400) it would show a much more noticeable stair step on the edge of the ceiling... 2x2 pixels from the zoom. The fact that it's 1x1 proves it's a source port.