Most visually pleasing 2d rpgs

Ok heres the deal. Post pictures of what you'd consider some of the best looking 2d rpgs for any system you want and then explain why so. Im sure we'll get some mixed thing here.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5...lagoonjten.jpghttp://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4...lagoonjten.jpg

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6706/1736537sad.png

The mode 7 effects and heavy use of transparencies put anything the genesis could do to shame. Hell to be honest this games so pretty it put some neogeo games to shame.

I always thought that "Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean" was an impressive 2d RPG. However, it probably could have been even more impressive, seeing that it was released on the 32-bit Sega Saturn.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/...castlebatt.jpg

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/...rgastabatt.jpg

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/...uce/aotown.jpg

Couldn't find a pic but I am still really impressive by the effects of secret of mana 2, skip to 1:58 to show you what I mean, It looks so real.

Bahamut Lagoon goes overboard with effects, sometimes they just look out of place and gimmicky.

I'd say the best looking 16-bit RPGs are (Yes I know golden sun isn't 16-bit):
http://i.imgur.com/XZF3F.png
http://i.imgur.com/SxD71.png
http://i.imgur.com/5IRxZ.gif
http://i.imgur.com/bV6kR.png
http://i.imgur.com/XuOq3.png
http://i.imgur.com/QS8fv.gif

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

Bahamut Lagoon goes overboard with effects, sometimes they just look out of place and gimmicky.

I'd say the best looking 16-bit RPGs are:
http://i.imgur.com/XZF3F.png
http://i.imgur.com/SxD71.png
http://i.imgur.com/5IRxZ.gif

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I dont know what the first one is but Star Ocean is insanely impressive. Thats thinks to the special chip that allowed it to have 96mb on a 32mb cart. Its the largest 16bit game made. I dont care if Pier Solar is on a 64mb cart its still only 64mb of data where as Star Ocean is 96mb compressed. Plus it had voice actiing in it too which just blew my mind. I only own 4 snes carts. Bahamut Lagoon, Far East of Eden Zero, Tales of Phantasia and, Star Ocean.

The first game is Legend of Xanadu 2 for the PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16.

EDIT: There's also nothing preventing Pier Solar from using compressed data too. Just look at blast processing, there's a bunch of algorithms there. You don't need no shitty extra chips when you have an M68k blast processor ;)

I see you added sam sho rpg to the list. That games so lovely but the neogeos lack of advance effects some what hender it. Its a lot hardest to make a rpg that outshines snes games without effects and the huge amount of data acess doesnt really help on rpgs much.

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Originally Posted by Clessy

I see you added sam sho rpg to the list. That games so lovely but the neogeos lack of advance effects some what hender it. Its a lot hardest to make a rpg that outshines snes games without effects and the huge amount of data acess doesnt really help on rpgs much.

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It doesn't really use the power of the Neo Geo at all, no crazy scaling effects, and no abuse of the massive amount of colors available. (Still looks damn good though)

I would say Muramasa: The Demon Blade. Sure it is a current gen action RPG but I'd say it still counts. Too bad a lot of the scenes are repeated and get a little redundant.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/FCKEdit...emon-blade.jpg

Legend of Mana on PS1:
http://www.snesclassics.com/history/...densetsu10.jpg

SaGa frontier 2
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7...frontier21.jpg

Magic Knight Rayearth
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3732/rayearth1.jpg

Where the fuck is Baldur's Gate?

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Originally Posted by Bastardcat

Where the fuck is Baldur's Gate?

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Eh pro tip. Instead of bitching why dont you post some pictures. Or where the instructions to hard to follow?

^That just happens to be my biggest online pet-peeve. I can't stand the douchebaggery (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=forgot). How about, fucking contribute or get out. :?

Odin Sphere and GrimmGrimmoire would also come to mind, but Muramasa has already been mentioned. So props.

Some I'd point out that don't seem to have been mentioned:

Chrono Trigger - Nice use of transparencies and color without feeling gimmicky.
Final Fantasy VI - Again nice use of colors and transparency without feeling gimmicky.
Phantasy Star IV - Yeah it might not have as many colors on screen, but it makes good use of what it does have, especially in the cutscenes.
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete and Lunar 2 Eternal Blue - Gorgeous remakes on the Saturn and PS1

And if they count
Sakura Taisen 1 and 2 on the Saturn and Dreamcast. These make excellent use of 2D sprites. If it weren't for compression artifacts I'd have a hard time figuring out what's being rendered and what's FMV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clessy

Eh pro tip. Instead of bitching why dont you post some pictures. Or where the instructions to hard to follow?

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I'm just in shock that no one else mentioned it. Then again, people tend to be utterly ignorant that RPGs do in fact exist outside of Japan.
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...-cloakwood.png
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...re-outside.png
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...-outskirts.png

I don't think thats the reason it wasnt mentioned. I don't think a lot of us find pre rendered graphical appealing and they're like of the grey area between 2d/3d. Also Diablo 2 looks so much better :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clessy

I don't think thats the reason it wasnt mentioned. I don't think a lot of us find pre rendered graphical appealing and they're like of the grey area between 2d/3d. Also Diablo 2 looks so much better :P

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I don't know - I think a pre-rendered background RPG for the CD32X in thousands mode would have kicked some serious butt! :D

I'll second the lunar 1 & 2 remakes. I'll also mention NIS games like Disgaea, Makai Kingdom, and Disgaea 2.

http://www.retrogamer.net/users/2186...tasy_star3.jpg

Attachment 3631

I know it's not a very big shot, but... :/

Just look how LUSH everything looks. The light spilling in looks so realistic, like it's from an actual source. Ever since Dragon Quest VI on the Super Famicom, Enix has always given these games great graphics, whether it be battle scenes are story scenes.

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Originally Posted by QuickSciFi

Odin Sphere and GrimmGrimmoire would also come to mind, but Muramasa has already been mentioned. So props.

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I thought about mentioning them, but since I've never played either of them I left them out. They are indeed great looking games though. Here is another one I just thought of. Ogre Battle 64. A friend and I used to play it non-stop at his his house. We did the thing where you take a one player RPG and make it two player.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.c...battle1228.jpg

Many games should really use the mix of 2D with 3D more often. I always end up liking a game that does that, just look at strider 2 for the ps1.

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Originally Posted by Curryman123

http://www.retrogamer.net/users/2186...tasy_star3.jpg

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Take your joke out of this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterfaller

Attachment 3631

I know it's not a very big shot, but... :/

Just look how LUSH everything looks. The light spilling in looks so realistic, like it's from an actual source. Ever since Dragon Quest VI on the Super Famicom, Enix has always given these games great graphics, whether it be battle scenes are story scenes.

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The first thing I thought when I saw that shot, is that the BG is mirrored horizontally. Which version/port is that shot from?

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

The first thing I thought when I saw that shot, is that the BG is mirrored horizontally. Which version/port is that shot from?

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It's not dragon question 6. Its a screenshot of DragonQuest III remake on SuperFamicom. That game is breath taking in its art direction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clessy

I dont care if Pier Solar is on a 64mb cart its still only 64mb of data where as Star Ocean is 96mb compressed.

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Pier Solar´s data is compressed too of course. I don´t know the actual uncompressed size, but it may be more than Star Ocean. Also Star Ocean is on a 48 Mbit cart, not a 32 Mbit one.

The thing why SO still looks better is that PS graphics were drawn by complete amateurs like myself. I never did graphics before and had no experience. Even in mid-development I was very unhappy already with the Reja forest and cave graphics (the first ones I did) as I got more experienced, and wanted to redo them. But alas, had I done that this would eternally delay the game as you always get better and feel you can improve your old work.

I hope to get the chance to do better graphics in the future.

That said I agree on Star Ocean being the most beautiful RPG on 16-bit systems. :)
Saga Frontier 2 would be the peak in 32-bit-2D-RPGs visually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterfaller

Attachment 3631

I know it's not a very big shot, but... :/

Just look how LUSH everything looks. The light spilling in looks so realistic, like it's from an actual source. Ever since Dragon Quest VI on the Super Famicom, Enix has always given these games great graphics, whether it be battle scenes are story scenes.

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That screen is from the single most beautiful scene of any SNES Dragon Quest though. Generally the DQ games were never impressive visually. DQ V is bad ugly, and DQ VI and III are good, but with average sprites and generally not as detailed as, say FF VI and CT.

I always loved Terranigmas 'inside the planet earth' style warped underworld map where you started out. I'm sure its probably not that amazing from a coding stand point to do but always impressed me.

Attachment 3634


Such a great title, can't believe I used to own the PAL release of this, I really wished as a kid I'd have taken better care of it, its gone now, though I found the manual not long back

My Nanna by pure luck with absoloutly no knowledge of video games at all picked this one out of nowehere as a special present after a trip to Scotland to see my Uncle. She could have picked anything, a turd like Clayfighter but somehow she managed to get me that diamond. You can imagine how pissed I was 10 or 15 years later when I realised how rare the bloody thing was.

She also bought me a Sega Saturn in 96' from Doncaster, probably seeing the Sega logo on it and the Megadrive I had, after I'd been desperatly been pining after a Playstation which my mum adamantly refused to buy me due to its cost. At the age of 8 I'd never even heard of the Saturn in my neck of the woods. Man, looking back I love my Nan!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 108 Stars

Pier Solar´s data is compressed too of course. I don´t know the actual uncompressed size, but it may be more than Star Ocean. Also Star Ocean is on a 48 Mbit cart, not a 32 Mbit one.

The thing why SO still looks better is that PS graphics were drawn by complete amateurs like myself. I never did graphics before and had no experience. Even in mid-development I was very unhappy already with the Reja forest and cave graphics (the first ones I did) as I got more experienced, and wanted to redo them. But alas, had I done that this would eternally delay the game as you always get better and feel you can improve your old work.

I hope to get the chance to do better graphics in the future.

That said I agree on Star Ocean being the most beautiful RPG on 16-bit systems. :)
Saga Frontier 2 would be the peak in 32-bit-2D-RPGs visually.



That screen is from the single most beautiful scene of any SNES Dragon Quest though. Generally the DQ games were never impressive visually. DQ V is bad ugly, and DQ VI and III are good, but with average sprites and generally not as detailed as, say FF VI and CT.

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Yeah the begining of DQ3 remake is great.

http://ui17.gamefaqs.com/2096/gfs_4542_2_18.jpg

There is a much better shot to judge by.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clessy

Yeah the begining of DQ3 remake is great.

http://ui17.gamefaqs.com/2096/gfs_4542_2_18.jpg

There is a much better shot to judge by.

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Another mirrored horizontal BG shot. Doesn't honestly look impressive. Not that it looks bad, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Another mirrored horizontal BG shot. Doesn't honestly look impressive. Not that it looks bad, though.

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If that doesnt look impressive to you you might not like snes graphics. Download the rom and see for yourself its amazing.

Well, I think he means "impressive" on a technical level.
Because while it looks very nice, it is not hard to do. You basically just have to a tileset for one scene only.
Usually you do tilesets so that the single tiles can be used in versatile ways in various combinations. That´s why RPG graphics tend to look a bit blocky; so that you can put the table-tile next to the grass tile, or the wood floor tile, or whatever you want; all fits together.
For a pic like this, you basically draw one big detailed picture; the upper left tiles of the clouds can only be used there, and so do all details. Each tile can hold very specific details only usable in one place of the background.
The problem with that is that you can only use it in one place; it only fits together to look exactly like this, the tileset is useless for any other scenes.
The less detailed, more blocky tilesets used in other parts of the game, like towns, dungeons etc can never look that great, but can be combined to many different maps. You can use one tileset for multiple places. That´s why in most RPGs many towns´ houses look exactly alike; 10 towns can use the same tileset with the tiles arranged differently.

I don´t know if you understand what I mean, Clessy, it is hard to explain since it´s not my native language...
So it is pretty to look at, but technically as basic as it can be.

Anyway, it all comes down to screens like this being possible on the Master System as well, they just take up memory for one scene that could be used for a versatile tileset that I could use in 10 places


One good proof: the very same screens are also in the Game Boy version, with lower res and fewer colors, but also detailed.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1...323dragonw.gif http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1...323dragonw.gif

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Originally Posted by Zebbe

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Phantasy Star 4 is a great game but "most visually pleasing" isn't something I'd use to describe it. Even in that video only a few of the effects shown look good (and yes, I realize there are recording issues cutting out frames of animation, I'm talking about the real deal).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clessy

Take your joke out of this thread.

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Well, the town graphics on PSIII do actually look pretty decent. :cool:


For something that hasn't been mentioned yet, I really dig how nice the PS2 remakes of Phantasy Star I and II look.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/571...cheater0va.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 108 Stars

Well, I think he means "impressive" on a technical level.
Because while it looks very nice, it is not hard to do. You basically just have to a tileset for one scene only.
Usually you do tilesets so that the single tiles can be used in versatile ways in various combinations. That´s why RPG graphics tend to look a bit blocky; so that you can put the table-tile next to the grass tile, or the wood floor tile, or whatever you want; all fits together.
For a pic like this, you basically draw one big detailed picture; the upper left tiles of the clouds can only be used there, and so do all details. Each tile can hold very specific details only usable in one place of the background.
The problem with that is that you can only use it in one place; it only fits together to look exactly like this, the tileset is useless for any other scenes.
The less detailed, more blocky tilesets used in other parts of the game, like towns, dungeons etc can never look that great, but can be combined to many different maps. You can use one tileset for multiple places. That´s why in most RPGs many towns´ houses look exactly alike; 10 towns can use the same tileset with the tiles arranged differently.

I don´t know if you understand what I mean, Clessy, it is hard to explain since it´s not my native language...
So it is pretty to look at, but technically as basic as it can be.

Anyway, it all comes down to screens like this being possible on the Master System as well, they just take up memory for one scene that could be used for a versatile tileset that I could use in 10 places


One good proof: the very same screens are also in the Game Boy version, with lower res and fewer colors, but also detailed.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1...323dragonw.gif http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1...323dragonw.gif

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Yeah I excatly what you're saying. Its really a shame that hardware excelled differently. I wish we still had the same type of hardware just with more ram and much larger storage space.

http://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/u...thor-final.jpg

I never liked the whole concept of role-playing, with a few notable exceptions (Mass Effect, Chrono Trigger) but I do believe Story of Thor looked rather nice, despite the Megadrive's limited colour palette. It's not a standard JRPG I know.

Yeah, I would put it very close to the top of the games with the top-down perspective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clessy

If that doesnt look impressive to you you might not like snes graphics. Download the rom and see for yourself its amazing.

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Oh please, I bought a SNES the day it came out and was there for its run of the 16bit generation. There are much better snes graphics than that shot (RPG or not). But that's beside the point. Maybe the game is impressive looking over all, I dunno. I haven't played it. I've played DQ 1,2,4, and 8. Not the third one on any system. And that particular shot doesn't look impressive. It's really apparent that all the layers are just horizontal mirrors/folds of it, with the exception of the middle peak with the character. The sky, or more importantly the sun and lens flare, are obvious offenders. It's not that the technique can't look good (it can and does in other SNES shots/games I've played). It's just they didn't even bother to hide the effect. So yes, it's not impressive to look at.

You know what's impressive? Hand drawn art that's not mirrored. And tiles arranged in such a way that don't look reused. Or maybe a heavy mix between them. Regardless of the color count. It gives the illusion that there's a ton of unique detail. And SNES RPGs of the 16bit era were the most predominant in this fashion (not that it was limited to RPGs, mind you).

I didn't play a lot of Jrpgs back in the day outside of Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior. I stuck mainly to Interplay and SSI stuff.