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Wanted to solve a little debate im having.
I say that the Snes without a doubt has better rpgs. In fact its debated that snes or ps1 have the best rpgs ever.
Also realistically how many good rpgs would people say are on the genesis? Less than 5 right? Shining Force 1 2 phantasy 2 & 4 and langrisser 2. Hand ful of other but nothing sticks out as even remotely comparable to say Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Star Ocean and, Tales of Phantasia.
What about Langrisser 1 (Warsong)? Or Shining in the Darkness? Those are both great games as well.
Anyway, If you include the Sega CD, I'd say they're about on even footing as far as triple A titles go. Otherwise, Super Nintendo wins. Phantasy Star IV is probably my favorite 16-bit RPG ever, and I absolutely love all of the Shining games, but Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy VI are some of the best RPGs ever imo and there are a lot of other good titles available on the SNES. JRPGs just had a really strong showing on that particular platform.
Even including strategy RPGs the SNES still wins by a large margin. Even if the Genesis wins in top quality (SF 2 and Langrisser 2 are better than anything on the SNES) it loses in quantity of good titles.
I'm not a big RPG fan, but I say SNES hands down. If I were an RPG fan, I'd own an SNES for sure...
The SNES with ease, eventhough this has been debated a gazillion times already.
I would not support the "less than 5 good RPGs" statement though. There is more "good" RPGs, just not many that are awesome classics.
Thereīs stuff like Shining in the Darkness, Shadowrun, AD&D: Warriors of the Eernal Sun, M&M II, Uncharted Waters, Buck Rogers etc that are not great, but good and well-received in their time.
Iīd also count Pier Solar and Beggar Prince as good RPGs, although I am naturally biased.
AND since you include Langrisser 2, we can also include the games that are promising but as of yet untranslated, like Surging Aura (reviewed by Melf), Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes 1 & 2 (better than SNES versions), Madou Monogatari I, Maten no Soumetsu or Vixen 357.
Snes has at least 5 times as many RPGs. At least it wins on quantity.
SNES wins with ease, both quantity and quality wise, SNES vs PS1 would be interesting though.
I'd say thats the fairs of comparisons. Honestly I think the psx is better because its was just such a huge push for the jrpg market. More games came out over here than snes era. Plus some of the best Square rpgs got ports. Chrono Trigger ff4 5 6 all got ports. Also at the time PSX was the only system you could play ff 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 and 9 on. That was pretty amazing and the remakes of 1 and 2 that where ported over from the wonderswan where fantastic editions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggo
Definitely, although I might include PS2 as well. All three I would recommend to any fan of RPGs. Personally, I think PSX wins but yeah. You can't really lose with any of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggo
Ps2 is the jrpg waste land. So much unoriginal rehashed styles of game. PSX it was all still fresh. I honestly cant think of many ps2 games that werent "more of the same"Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry coeurl
How about SNES vs. DS. There seems to be a ton of RPGs on the DS (some admittedly ports or rehashes of SNES games).
PS2 had a great RPG library with some original games too. I think that both the SNES and PS1 libraries were two steps ahead though. But in the end, as jerry said, you can't really lose with any of them.
For the ones interested, a count on the number of Mega Drive and SNES rpgs: http://pastebin.com/9kLBNSHD
That list doesnt look complete for the snes and it already kills the genesis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olls
It always seemed to me that the action/rpg genre was especially under-represented on the Genesis...
Yep, I had a hard time digging up some of the less popular SNES Jrpgs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clessy
Landstalker still doesnīt belong on any RPG list, neither does Zelda.
I know, but half of the sega-16 population thinks even wonder boy is an RPG so I had to find a middle ground.
Beyond Oasis, LandStalker, Crusader of Centy and Wonder Boy in Monster World are all Action/Adventure games.
I know, and so is Ys III, Arcus Odyssey, etc., but it doesn't really matter, because if we count only pure RPGs, the odds would be even more overwhelming. The SNES has way more classic JRPGs.
Including every game with overwhelming RPG elements still wasn't enough. :(
You can gain levels in Ys III, so technically it qualifies as an RPG, or at least an Action/RPG.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Olls
Itīs only natural for the SNES to have more RPGs.
Japanese are RPG nuts, and the SNES was overwhelmingly more popular in Japan than the Mega Drive. So many companies tried their luck with RPGs on the sytem. Also RPGs take a longer time to develop than action games for example, so companies chose to bring RPGs to the system with the largest user-base (=biggest revenue).
Not to mention that the biggest japanese RPG devs, Square and Enix got big doing Famicom-games, so they were close to Nintendo.
When you look at the best MD RPGs, the Phantasy-Star- and Shining-series, both were done by Sega themselves. But Sega could not do even more RPGs themselves.
Had the 16-bit-market not declined so much in 1993/1994, there might have been more ports. Lufia comes to mind, which was announced but cancelled. Had the market been stronger I can very well imagine Capcom bringing Breath of Fire II to MD as well.
No it wouldn't. The PSX kills the SFam in quantity and quality. However to help the latter out I'll contribute a few titles off the top of my head. >>Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggo
"Monstania" is Moonstania. Obitus is a puzzle/dungeon point-and-click piece of tedium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clessy
You're missing Elfaria 1 and 2, the Saint Sekiyas, Tactics Ogre 2 (same as on 32bit systems--it and the first of course being Strategy games), a cyberworld one I can't name just now, and Treasure Hunter (Square or Enix; total shit).
add = Dragon's Earth, Chaos Seed, Fire Emblem.
Add to MD = Bahamut Senki (tactical, like Dragon Force).
http://theinfosphere.org/images/thum.../225px-Sal.jpg
According to several of yous peoples' comments, there's "no such thing as action RPGses."
I like to think otherwise.
No, there are action-RPGs. But there is also action-adventures. Zelda, Crusader of Centy and Landstalker fall in the latter category.
I think that if I add Bahamut, I'd also have to add GemFire, Master of Monsters, and all the KOEI strategy games. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
Thanks for the additions.
Yeah, the difference between action adventures and action rpgs is that the former does not include leveling mechanics while the latter does. So Ys III would be an action rpg. Action meaning real-time combat, instead of turn-based.
I've always been fond of Lagoon, which was a blatant Ys clone.
What confuses me is why only Romancing Saga 3 is there and not 1 and 2.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Olls
Also missing Dragon Quest 3.... oddly but have the others. Dragon 1 and 2 are mentioned as if they're separate games however they're only on 1 cart as a combo.
I whole heartedly agree. As much as I love, LOVE Phantasy Star IV, and with Shining Force winning me over, these few titles alone just cannot compete against Final Fantasy IV AND VI AND Chrono Trigger AND Earthbound AND Super Mario RPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggo
As for SNES vs. PS1... my feelings are that at that point, when Sony saw how well Final Fantasy VII did over here, they'd just about release ANYTHING that was an RPG. Lemme tell ya, not all of them were exactly masterpieces.
Arcus Odyssey is on SNES as Arcus Spirits (JP), and I believe Wonder Project is point & click? Isn't it kind of like that Pac-Man Adventure game?
Uh-oh. This thread is heading off the rails into a "define RPG" thread:)
Looking to Japan, I can tell you: They did NOT release everything.^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterfaller
Seriously though, many SNES RPGs and action-RPGs are also not exactly competition to Chrono Trigger. Look at the first Breath of Fire, Robotrek, 7th Saga, Brandish, Paladin's Quest... not that they all suck, but they are no better than the not-so-awesome RPGs on the PS1.
See issue I have with this is, you point out games that are less than steller however. BOF1 and 7th Saga are better than like 85% of genesis rpgs and yet they're considered bottom tier for snes. Get the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by 108 Stars
I can't vote, because the SNES obviously has more "good" RPGs, but the thread can't seem to agree what a RPG is much less what the "Best RPGs" were. I have spent more time playing Genesis RPGs than any other platform, but I still considered that genre a casual jaunt in between Action games. The stories of any RPG ever made are less sophisticated than the average novel. Let's face it, novels don't even have much to brag about story wise.
Well, ask the developers. If the Genesis was a good machine for RPGs, more of them would have considered making RPGs for the Genesis, right?
As for the best console for RPGs ever, well, a lot of people say PS1. But I think the PS2 is highly, highly underrated by the snobby hardcore geeks. I can also make a case
that the PS2-- not only in quantity, but innovation--may even surpass PS1 RPGs. But that's another topic altogether.
I also want to say that I've played 7th Saga and I consider it below many Genesis RPGs as well. But other than that I agree with Clessy's notion that tier 3 SNES RPGs tend to be better than some tier 2 Genesis RPGs.
I don't think it matters how you define RPG, as long as you are consistent when making lists for both the Genesis and SNES. I think no matter how you slice the RPG definition, SNES is always going to come out on top in this area. It's one of the few areas that seems to have a consensus on this board when it comes to the Genesis vs. SNES discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Make a topic about this. I wanna argue you to death. Seriously ps2 was the absolute crap fest era of jrpg ness.Quote:
Originally Posted by llj
I think PS1 RPGS ride on nostalgia and charm, but the large majority of them are staid, turn-based affairs with little real progress from the 16 bit era RPGs other than cut-scenes. I enjoy PS1 RPGs, but when I play, say, Lunar 1+2, FF VII + 8 +9, or Breath of Fire 3 + 4, there's a certain been there, done that to them. Grandia is kinda-sorta innovative in its battle system, but mostly rides on irresistible charm. Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile, Suikoden 2 and Xenogears are probably the more innovative PS1 examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clessy
The PS2 has a lot of RPGs that tried to do something different but weren't always liked. Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter doesn't feel like any other JRPG out there, with its application of a "time" limit, and survival horror elements. Odin Sphere is, at the very least, very different from what most people are used to in an RPG. Radiata Stories had a complicated scripting program that documented the actions of every NPC in town throughout the day, and not only that, you could recruit all of them. If you've ever played around with RPG making programs, you'll appreciate the complexity of what the programmers did in Radiata Stories in basically programming the day-to-day activities of over 150 people. And I don't mean cheaply warping them from location to location after a certain time has passed, you actually see them DOING their activities and walking to their schedules throughout the day--only the Ultima games have done that previously. And there are more examples of innovation on the PS2.
I'm not saying there's not a large segment of absolutely uninspired PS2 RPGs...but a lot of their better ones were simply ignored or victim of fanbase pile-on. And I argue their better ones were more experimental than the best PS1 RPGs.
a lot of the innovation felt like shit. Radiata Stories is one of the worst un fun playing games in my life. Dragon Quarter is easily excepted as the worst Breath Of Fire games(Ionno wtf I was on a minute ago when I said Dragon Quest, it was on the mind) ever. Innovation for the point of just saying you did something new is pointless. If its not broke dont fix it. PS1 brought better graphics, high quality cinematic videos and the huge advantage of vast disk space.Quote:
Originally Posted by llj
First of all...Dragon Quarter is a Breath of Fire game. I know you probably just typo'd, but it's best to remain sharp if you're going to argue against it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clessy
That said, just because it's "generally accepted" as the worst doesn't mean I can't argue for it. It's actually very fun, I think. Somewhat hard, but beatable. There are no elements in it that make the game unplayable. Also, its stature has risen in the critical community in recent years: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...e_.php?page=19
Radiata Stories unfun? Well, okay, but you have to be more specific, get into the mechanics and all of why.
I don't agree with the if it's not broke, don't fix it philosophy. Artists should always look to try new things. Plus, there's staleness. You can only do charming-but-straightforward turn-based RPGs so many times before it becomes stale. I'm not saying there isn't a place for familiar comfort food, but it shouldn't be the whole selection.
OK, but that's my last post on this topic here. It's derailing the thread.:cool: