A wild Nintendo Fanboy Appears!

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Originally Posted by Crackdown

Sales yes, but sales do not equal innovation.

I have often seen people say (in fact Retro Gamer magazine themselves said it who are known for their Nintendo bias) that the Lynx has the best good to bad games ratio of any console. This might be opinion but its certainly one that A LOT of people share.

I don't think they apply because I don't believe that Nintendo really innovated very much. The only reason they did so well in the NES years was because of their unfair business practices, nothing to do with any kind of innovation. The SNES did nothing to innovate the industry and for that matter neither did the N64 or Gamecube.

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No, but they are often a result of succesful innovation. Unfair business practices as you like to call them is ALSO innovation. It doesn't have to be something that's visible on the product you're buying as a consumer.
Some reasons why the Gameboy did so well:
- Long battery life (innovative)
- Efficient marketing (innovative)
- Lots of addons; some worked, some didn't (innovative)
And last but not least, the huge game library.

Was the Lynx innovative? Sure it was. A color screen on a handheld back then was pretty innovative, but it carried several drawbacks that backfired on them:
- Size
- Short battery life
- Bad screen visibility
Somehow its game library was also much smaller, but I'm sure someone else can explain why.

So which handheld had the most succesful innovation? Innovation is not just about slapping the most expensive and "best" features onto a product, but is also about carefully weighing the pros against the cons. Atari clearly failed at doing this and would be making the same mistake again (see jaguar).
Sometimes, innovation is taking one step backwards to go two steps forward. A good example of this is the Wii. It took a step back on hardware specs, but it still conquered the market because it reinvented (one of the key features of innovation) the way games are played.

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

The lynx was inferior to the gameboy since it was less portable, the most important feature in a portable.
It does indeed have the best good to bad ratio of any console, but it doesn't have any really great games.

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It fitted in my blazer pocket which was all that mattered to me when I was at school! :D

I think it does have some really great games but again thats just opinion.

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Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners

I like to see how much ignorance a Nintendo fanboy can show using just a couple of words...

Also, they all share the same set of "opinions":

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You forgot to mention the most common of them all: "The SNES won the 16-bit war...that will tell you which was the better system" .....wich I find it funny because I believe it was just the opposite;

Worlwide, Nintendo could have sold more consoles officially, but in terms of popularity I think the Megadrive won by a wide margin if we take into account the pirate console market,

at least that's what happened in Asia (China, Taiwan, etc) and here in South America (Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil etc.) where the Megadrive was a lot more popular than the SNES, back then, all of the kids who had no money to pay the high prices of a SNES ended up buying the cheapest console on the market, which in those days was one of the many Sega MD clones: Songa, Aito Turbo, Sega Electrolab etc. (same happens now with the ps3/360 wich retails at $800 USD, that's why the PC is the most popular system around here nowadays) ...

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Originally Posted by Crackdown

It fitted in my blazer pocket which was all that mattered to me when I was at school! :D

I think it does have some really great games but again thats just opinion.

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Nobody said its games were bad.

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Originally Posted by chinitosoccer

You forgot to mention the most common of them all: "The SNES won the 16-bit war...that will tell you which was the better system" .....wich I find it funny because I believe it was just the opposite;

Nintendo could have sold more consoles officially, but in terms of popularity I think the Megadrive won by a wide margin if we take into account the pirate console market,

at least that's what happened in Asia (China, Taiwan, etc) and here in South America (Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil etc.) where the Megadrive was a lot more popular than the SNES, back then, all of the kids who had no money to pay the high prices of a SNES ended up opting to buy the cheapest console on the market, which in those days was one of the many Sega MD clones: Songa, Aito Turbo, Sega Electrolab etc. (same happens now with the ps3/360 wich retails at $800 USD, that's why the PC is the most popular system around here nowadays) ...

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So they were effectively forced to play Sega.
That's not fair.

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Originally Posted by Olls

I think we can safely agree on the fact that the Gameboy is by far the superior handheld when it comes to sales. Whether you think the Lynx had a better game library or not is your opinion and is debatable, but is obviously not shared by the vast majority of the population that used to own handhelds in the early 90s.

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Gameboy had greater sales because it had Tetris; Tetris, and Tetris alone, put that piece of shit under every luckless boy's Christmas tree.
Ownership does not equate to enjoyment: the vast majority of handheld gamers owned a Gameboy, but that doesn't mean they enjoyed it. The vast majority of us owned SF2CE on Genesis compared to those who owned SF2CE on an arcade cabinet, but that doesn't mean the Genesis version's better. Or for comparison of different software you can put Altered Beast beside Metal Slug: not very equal is that? For a more practical analogy ask yourself how many forum members owned a Playstation in its day and now rag on it whenever it's brought up.

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

The lynx was inferior to the gameboy since it was less portable, the most important feature in a portable.
It does indeed have the best good to bad ratio of any console, but it doesn't have any really great games.

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Portability is not the most important feature, game quality is. A lipstick tube is more portable than either, but is less fun for gaming than, say, at least half of either's library. Outside Tetris the Gameboy has no great games. It wins for mobile timekilling, but that's a shabby victory. Oh, and it has that printer.

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Originally Posted by Olls

No, but they are often a result of succesful innovation. Unfair business practices as you like to call them is ALSO innovation. It doesn't have to be something that's visible on the product you're buying as a consumer.
Some reasons why the Gameboy did so well:
- Long battery life (innovative)
- Efficient marketing (innovative)
- Lots of addons; some worked, some didn't (innovative)
And last but not least, the huge game library.

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To quote the Oxford dictionary:

Innovative - adjective
(of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original.

Those things listed there are advantageous not innovative. There is nothing advanced or original about longer battery life, a big game library or marketing (which is more to do with having loads of money to throw at it)

Advantageous - adjective
involving or creating favourable circumstances that increase the chances of success or effectiveness; beneficial:
the scheme is advantageous to your company

I didn't say a large game library is innovative, but a long battery life surely is. The Gameboy was the first handheld to offer this, contrary to its competitors.
If you don't think marketing can be innovative, I suggest you do more research into the subject matter before quoting a dictionary with stuff you don't fully understand.

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Originally Posted by StarMist

Gameboy had greater sales because it had Tetris; Tetris, and Tetris alone, put that piece of shit under every luckless boy's Christmas tree.
Ownership does not equate to enjoyment: the vast majority of handheld gamers owned a Gameboy, but that doesn't mean they enjoyed it. The vast majority of us owned SF2CE on Genesis compared to those who owned SF2CE on an arcade cabinet, but that doesn't mean the Genesis version's better. Or for comparison of different software you can put Altered Beast beside Metal Slug: not very equal is that? For a more practical analogy ask yourself how many forum members owned a Playstation in its day and now rag on it whenever it's brought up.

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Surely, other handhelds at the time were more available than an SF2 arcade cabinet for the common household user. Nonsensical comparison.
I'd like to see some sources that back up that Tetris was the sole reason for the Gameboy outselling every other handheld. Even if that was the case, that's great innovation right there (good packin games were not a norm) and something that should be encouraged.

I don't think so, the most popular games of the time around here were available for the 2 consoles, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, FIFA, ISSD, Disney games and movie licensed titles, and the vast majority of kids didn't care about system brands, if they could play their favorite games, and the Sega clones were the best option, SNES simply didn't offered any "extras" to justify its high price, besides ... did you know that Mario has always been considered a game for the girls around here?

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Originally Posted by Olls

- Long battery life (innovative)
- Efficient marketing (innovative)

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:daze:

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Originally Posted by chinitosoccer

You forgot to mention the most common of them all: "The SNES won the 16-bit war...that will tell you which was the better system" .....wich I find it funny because I believe it was just the opposite;

Worlwide, Nintendo could have sold more consoles officially, but in terms of popularity I think the Megadrive won by a wide margin if we take into account the pirate console market

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I really don't care about the "chosen by the majority" argument. It's almost laughable when used to "prove" the unarguably superiority of option A over B.
The most popular books, songs, movies or games are not necessarily the best ones.

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Originally Posted by chinitosoccer

I don't think so, the most popular games of the time around here were available for the 2 consoles, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, FIFA, ISSD, Disney games and movie licensed titles, and the vast majority of kids didn't care about system brands, if they could play their favorite games, and the Sega clones were the best option, SNES simply didn't offered any "extras" to justify its high price, besides ... did you know that Mario has always been considered a game for the girls around here?

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A fair point.

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Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners

:daze:

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What's the matter?

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Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners

:daze:



I really don't care about the "chosen by the majority" argument. It's almost laughable when used to "prove" the unarguably superiority of option A over B.
The most popular books, songs, movies or games are not necessarily the best ones.

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You know its a lost cause when people even deny dictionary definations :?

I didn't deny anything, I explained why you are wrong.
You just quoted a dictionary with a quote that actually proves my point. Not very smart.

Any freshman of economics or business would laugh in your face if you told them that innovative marketing doesn't exist.
This is 101 stuff and I don't know what to add if you don't understand this.

I have a degree thankyou very much and run my own business. You keep missing the point.

Marketing CAN BE innovative but Nintendo's wasn't and was more to do with chucking money at it as I said. If you want innovative marketing then look at Sega.

You still havn't addressed how longer battery life is innovative or how a large game library is innovative. As I said they are not, they are advantagous (read the dictionary descriptions).

Let's look at this once again:

Innovative - adjective
(of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original.

The Atari Lynx innovations:

Hardware scaling - Check
Full colour screen - Check
Network play - Check
Blitter - Check
Left handed play - Check
Backlight switch (Lynx 2) - Check
Infinate sprites of any size - Check

I get annoyed by any portable gaming system that requires more than 4 Double A batteries and yesterday, I found out that the Turbo Express requires 6!!!

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Originally Posted by Crackdown

I have a degree thankyou very much and run my own business. You keep missing the point.

Marketing CAN BE innovative but Nintendo's wasn't and was more to do with chucking money at it as I said. If you want innovative marketing then look at Sega.

You still havn't addressed how longer battery life is innovative or how a large game library is innovative. As I said they are not, they are advantagous (read the dictionary descriptions).

Let's look at this once again:

Innovative - adjective
(of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original.

The Atari Lynx innovations:

Hardware scaling - Check
Full colour screen - Check
Network play - Check
Blitter - Check
Left handed play - Check
Backlight switch (Lynx 2) - Check
Infinate sprites of any size - Check

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Actually, I did. Read my post. I also said that the Lynx was innovative, so there is no need to confirm this (it looks like you don't even read my posts, merely skim over them).
You can stop quoting dictionary definitions if you don't have the ability to put them into context. So much for that degree.
Let's just agree to disagree about whether or not Nintendo was innovative. We both know better.