I highly doubt some statements in this last review. But let me grab my stuff and see what I can do.
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I highly doubt some statements in this last review. But let me grab my stuff and see what I can do.
Sorry if it wasn't the best, I'm afraid I'm not very good at this, I would definitely welcome any help/feedback. It was suggested I posted my thoughts here, sorry if I screwed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
Anyway I did post more information here
Nah, you did alright. We'll see what happens when Barone gets to it. The emulators, and the settings used within, might make a difference too, so it can be tough to tell that way.
It's interesting, aside from Parallax, usually the SNES could do more with backgrounds than the Genesis. On the flip, the Genesis usually did more with sprites(hence the extra enemies).
Yeah I noticed the SNES re-used the same backgrounds and they were generally very staticQuote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
For example here's the entrance to the warehouse level.
The SNES re-uses the same background from level 1
The Genesis uses a whole new background
Here's another case of different backgrounds:
SNES
Genesis
Though in this case I feel the Genesis background is a bit cluttered
Unfortunately attachments don't work in this forum, or at least I haven't figured out what the pics need to be for them to work.
Yeah, I probably phrased my last post poorly (sorry for that), I didn't mean to trash your review, just to check some stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by stika
You brought some new info that I've never seen before, good job!
I'll try to check some other stuff and just make some appointments if necessary. No intention to criticize you or anything, quite the opposite. For a first comparison (this is what I understood from what you said), you did a fantastic job in terms of details.
Edited the post, it should work nowQuote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Ah no worries, I definitely welcome the help :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
To upload pics, attach them, and include them inline, do the following. It's a pain, but works well enough once you get used to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
1) Click "Go Advanced" below the message window.
2) Highlight/click the spot in your post where you want the image to go, then click "Manage Attachments" (scroll down).
3) Click "Add files".
4) Click "Choose file", then "Upload".
5) Click "Insert inline", then "Done".
6) Repeat steps 1-5 for each image you want to attach (up to five). Right now the images will only display as thumbnails. If that doesn't matter to you, stop here.
7) Otherwise click "Preview post" below the message window.
8) Left-click on each image to expand/preview it, and right-click to copy the image URL. (You can just copy it from the thumbnail, but then you'll need to trim the URL to remove the "&thumb=1" bit at the end.)
9) In your post, where the code says something like {ATTACH}1394{/ATTACH}, change it to {IMG}http://sega-16.com/etc.{/IMG}, where the URL of your image is between the tags.
10) Repeat steps 7-9 for each image you're including.
If you're using pics on an external website, you can just click the Insert Image button above the post and go to "From URL" (or just cut and paste the URL between {IMG} tags). But if you do that, consider having it "Retrieve remote file and reference locally", since that'll mean the picture won't get lost when Tinypic et al. decides to clean house. Night Driver mentioned that Tinypic may even recycle URLs, so if you link remotely, who knows what that picture might become some months hence. I just replaced all my Tinypic links from this thread; before that, there were 7-8 dead image links, and others that no doubt would expire soon.
You'll have to go through Steps 7-10 above to get the pic to display full-size, but it's not too bad.
Spider-Man/X-Men: Arcade's Revenge
Case: B (one of the platforms has vastly superior version)
Genre: Action-platformer
Verdict: overwhelming victory for the SNES
SNES screenshots:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...7&d=1392176918
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...9&d=1392177470
Genesis screenshots:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...8&d=1392176944
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...0&d=1392177500
Pros and cons:
Since the SNES game is so comprehensively superior to the Genesis version, the main thing to do is detail the Genesis port's shortcomings!
Graphics - These show the typical problems for a game that was conceived on the SNES and ported to the Genesis. Color palettes are reduced and muted, and there aren't any improvements in the animation or resolution to make up for it. The SNES HUD is also better in some stages, e.g. the Gambit stages.
Music - This is the biggest demerit by far. The original SNES soundtrack by Tim & Geoff Follin is an absolute masterpiece for the system, with looooong compositions that push the SNES hardware to the limit and pack the buffers full of incredibly effective sampled instruments straight out of the 1970s: wah-wah guitars, horn sections, the whole nine yards. It's easily in the top 10 soundtracks for the system IMHO, maybe top 5. Here are some excerpts:
Title screen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Q0s95SRXM
Spider-Man stage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqgCsdFaJlU
Cyclops stage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ncQGuNqUis
Gambit stage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we6Hg-fFc5A
If you listen to only one of these, choose the Gambit stage. Mind-blowing stuff!
The Genesis soundtrack starts out OK, but before long ends up sounding pretty lame by comparison. Here are some samples:
Title screen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Vlbk5lgn0
Spider-Man stage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex8Asdd4AuE
Cyclops stage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBphuD_i3Rg
Gambit stage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp1TrfzGHKo
Again, this is a classic example of how adapting SNES music to Genesis can come out poorly for the latter system; it would've been better to write a new score from the ground up, geared for the Genesis FM hardware. As it stands, it just seems like a huge downgrade.
Making matters worse, two of the stage tunes are inexplicably cut in the Genesis version! Wolverine's levels recycle the Gambit music, and Storm's levels reuse the Cyclops tune. This is pretty inexcusable. There are actually Youtube soundtrack videos that claim to have the Wolverine and Storm tunes, so I guess they were disabled in the final version.
Sound effects - These take a hit across the board in the Genesis version. Some are missing completely (the spiked ball in the Gambit stage, Spider-Man's "spidey sense" sound), while others have been downgraded or changed. In some cases the difference is a matter of taste: do you prefer the character damage and death SFX to sound like a confused surfer saying "Whoah!" (SNES), or like someone barfing up one too many beers (Genesis)?
Controls - Though the Genesis has fewer controller inputs, only Cyclops and Wolverine use all four face buttons in the SNES version. On the Genesis, Wolverine now retracts his claws by pressing Up + A instead of having a dedicated button, and Cyclops loses an insignificant standing punch attack. Otherwise, the controls are similar in both versions.
Gameplay - This is mostly similar, but there's a significant flaw that hits the first Gambit stage especially hard. Unlike the SNES version, the Genesis version frequently gives enemies a short window of invincibility after the initial hit. This completely ruins the flow of the stage! Since you're running from a giant spiked ball throughout the level, survival depends on fluid platforming and getting as far ahead of the ball as possible. In the SNES version you can flick a few cards at an enemy, keep going, and never stop moving -- but in the Genesis version you constantly have to stop and wait for a split second.
In addition, there are some small flaws and bugs evident in the Genesis version. The biggest one is that you can actually jump over the spiked ball in Gambit's first stage, only to find it patiently waiting for you at the end. On the other hand, the well-known 1UP trick in that stage is still enabled in the Genesis version, which basically rescues the game -- without it, the whole thing would be nearly unplayable.
Genesis pros? - I've read a claim that the second boss fight in the Gambit stage is easier in the Genesis version. I don't remember having any major trouble with it myself in either version, but this poster swore that the SNES boss fight was much more unbalanced and inappropriately difficult. YMMV.
Also, one weird note -- in the Genesis version, after you beat the opening Spider-Man security level, you get the option to skip it on all subsequent playthroughs (as long as you keep the power on), whether you beat the game or just get a GAME OVER. I don't know if you get that option after beating the SNES version, since the Genesis version has the script in plaintext in the ROM and the SNES version doesn't, but you certainly don't get it after a simple GAME OVER.
Final verdict:
Well, it's not like the Genesis version is horrible or unplayable, but it's hard not to see it as a very poor relation of the superior SNES version. While the core gameplay is mostly intact in the Genesis port, and having the option to skip the opening stage is nice, this is otherwise a very, very clear win for the SNES.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to goldenband again.
I like this thread. Only thing I disagree with is the Rock N' Roll Racing comparison. That, and I find Capcom's Aladdin to be a better game than Sega's.
Capcom's game is, from an objective standpoint, a better designed game. The mechanics fit aladdin a lot better and the level design is far superior... but it's not as fun. Watching those disney quality animations while swinging a sword and beating people to death with apples is a lot more fun than slow platforming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
EDIT: Another example is Batman and Robin. Genesis game has barely anything to do with the animated series while the SNES one is as faithful as can be... but the SNES one is a boring piece of crap.
YMMV. I found Sega's Aladdin to be cheap and frustrating more than anything, and had a lot more fun with Capcom's platforming. Capcom's controls were tighter too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Also, I dunno Kamahl, I had a lot of fun with the SNES Batman and Robin. I think it's a great Batman game with a lot of substance. It's as close as anything got to being Batman before Arkham Asylum arrived. But I also had a lot of fun with the Genesis game and managed to beat it without using a single continue. Both played and looked brilliantly.
I completely agree. The SNES version of Batman & Robin had a lot going for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
Requesting Mickey Mania, here! Would like to see the main differences between versions. I believe the Genesis version is high-res, for one.
Different tastes I suppose, I dislike SNES aladdin for the exact same reason I dislike SNES AoBaR and the SNES version of Lion King and UMK3. They all feel much slower than their genesis counterparts. It's like you're constantly moving in water and I can't stand it. Spoiled by blast processing I suppose :p.
I'll bite it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5233
Have you noticed how sparse the enemies are in SNES Aladdin when you are in a stage with well animated backgrounds, like that one which seems to be inside a cave and with lava in the background? Heck the level is almost empty, the "challenge" is to not miss the next platform when jumping; more than anything else. I found it pretty boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
That's just silly. Not everything needs to move at breakneck speed to be a good game. Slow down once in a while, take in the sights, smell the roses, enjoy the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I do agree that Genesis Lion King is better than SNES. UMK3, I hate the game anyway so it doesn't matter which version.
I consider both Aladdin games to be fairly average really. Like Kamahl though I feel the Genesis game is faster and more actiony as well as better in the graphics and animation department.
On the other hand the SNES game is a solid platformer that's better designed and more fair though it's not really as exciting. The original music tracks in the SNES game are also kind of lousy and circus-like.
I don't think either are absolutely stellar examples of their genre, though they are above average for licensed games of that period. The main thing that makes the Genesis version more relevant is its animation.
And the sword, don't forget the sword :p. And it's not about breakneck speed Cornelius, SNES aladdin feels slow (like too many SNES games) and is rather boring, though not as bad as AoBaR... that one is just... the avatar of boredom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously
And the sword. :lol:
I had promised to do it a while ago; well, here is it:
5) Is not exactly true. Destructible barrels also blink on the Genesis, the difference is that they blink when you hit them.Quote:
Originally Posted by stika
Here:
http://youtu.be/g74YENClOCo?t=4m56s
7) IDK, the SNES sfx are deeply, deeply muffled for the most part; though some sound better... It's a mixed bag IMO; SNES have more sounds but worse quality (Genesis is the opposite, of course). Here are two real hardware videos to give us a better idea:
SNES:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM2e8aE7nBI
Genesis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g74YENClOCo
I'd add:
8) The boss of the "Train Station" is articulated on the SNES, unlike in the Genesis version.
SNES version not only recycles backgrounds as it also recycles some animation details and have segments with black empty background where the Genesis had a proper one.Quote:
Originally Posted by stika
Maybe I'd add one or more of the following:
5) It doesn't have in game pause for loading like in the SNES.
6) Genesis version runs at higher res and so your view of the level/enemies/platforms is wider.
7) Aside from blinking, stages are better animated; some examples:
a)http://youtu.be/D0kZIqdB-0Q?t=6m22s vs http://youtu.be/860MJhTcUGo?t=3s
b) http://youtu.be/Bb7pjZQqnBw?t=3m10s vs http://youtu.be/vNWbAdQzqL4?t=4m4s (Faster scrolling on the Genesis, with the sides looking static on the SNES)
8) Less slowdown.
9) More enemies (Iknow you've already mentioned it as "extra details" but I think it's one of the pros here) in situations like this:
SNES: http://youtu.be/lihn7uX0AGs?t=4m20s
Genesis: http://youtu.be/RUS8DAJydTY?t=3m58s
Also, just as a comment, I don't think the color difference is so huge in this case as you suggested; the foreground of some stages are actually better colored on the Genesis IMO and it's actually one of the games who make a very good use of its palette IMO. Of course, the color counts are higher and the shading is overall better on the SNES, yes.
And I'd probably have gone with the Genesis version instead of the SNES; the former is more polished all around IMO.
I think you should give them another chance. They really are good games. God knows I'm glad I gave a few Sega games another chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
About the Phantom 2040 stuff, I'd like to add that Sean One's particle beam cannon is reportedly harder to disarm in the Genesis version than in the SNES.
I probably should do so for AoBaR, I only played it till like the end of the second stage till I got so bored I turned it off. Aladdin I've already played to the end multiple times. I like the game, it's better designed than the genesis game can't deny that, but it's just not very fun for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
My gaming tastes are a bit weird at times. I can't get into Earthworm Jim at all for example.
The thing about AoBaR SNES is that it's as much about using your tools and platforming as it is about action, and it doles out all three more or less equally until the last stage, which is all action. It's the first Batman game where I really felt like I was Batman, maneuvering my way around traps and solving puzzles and punching out goons who don't stand a chance.
In Act 2, you really get to love your grappling hook, batarang, and spray gun. Notice how they fixed the level so you can't hit women. Things don't start to get hairy until you have to grapple across the trees. Then in the greenhouse, get ready to grapple some more, then watch out for collapsing floors in the next screen. Next comes Poison Ivy and her Mutant Plant. Quite an exciting boss fight.
Things are relatively easy until the second half of the game. Then things get a lot harder. Scarecrow's blimp is a doozy.
Mickey ManiaPros:
Genre: 2D Platformer | Platforms: MD/GEN, SNES/SFC, MCD/SCD, PS1 | Case: B
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...290121&thumb=1
Super Nintendo (Traveller's Tales) (1994) (16 Mbit)
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...4&d=1463291365 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...5&d=1463291366 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...6&d=1463291366
- More colors on screen, with a bit improved shading.
- Extra background or foreground layer in a few levels.
- Less pixelated floor in the special Moose Hunters segment.
Cons:
- Lacks the film effect in the beginning of the first level.
- Background water still has parallax but lacks animation in the first level.
- Lacks torch's fire animation in The Mad Doctor level, as well as the fireballs and fire animation in several spots or uses a simplified version instead.
- Lacks several layers of vertical parallax scrolling in the The Mad Doctor level during the elevator segment.
- The foreground parallax at the top isn't significantly faster than the bottom one as on the Genesis during the trolley segment of The Mad Doctor.
- Doesn't have the staircase sequence right after the trolley segment of The Mad Doctor.
- Lacks the line scrolling effect in the water that inundates the furniture room in The Lonesome Ghosts level. It's recycling the water animation.
- Lacks underwater little bubbles animation in most of the spots as well as the little dust/friction effect when dragging objects.
- Lacks the animated "paintings" on the walls of the upper level of The Lonesome Ghosts stage.
- The Band Concert bonus level is missing.
- It's lacking two of the three pots/vases which were supposed to fall when you pass by them before meeting the prince in The Prince and The Pauper stage.
- Still in The Prince and The Pauper stage, when you meet the prince you can't see the continuation of the scenario (with the armors) on the left; it isn't just due to the lower res, it was cut.
- Lacks the window with snow animation and line scrolling effect in the final boss room.
- When you throw marbles and hit your enemy they were supposed to fragment and fly/fall until hit the floor, using a little animation for the collision between the marble fragment and the floor. In this version, the fragments just quickly disappear after the marble hit your enemy, so they will not be falling/flying until hit the floor and there's no graphical effect for their collision.
- Several sound samples lacking.
- Noticeably slower animation.
- Loads prior levels during an awful period of time for a cartridge game.
- Some Pluto's appearances and level-ending sequences are lacking.
- Some noticeable slowdown at times.
- Runs at lower resolution, usually cropped on sides compared to the other versions.
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...291633&thumb=1
Genesis (Traveller's Tales) (1994) (16 Mbit)
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...8&d=1463292150 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...9&d=1463292151 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...0&d=1463292151
Pros:
- Instant loading.
Verdict: Genesis version is far superior and I wouldn't even touch the SNES one if I were you.
Additional notes:
1) There's an European-only release for the PS1 with improved graphics but it uses some polygon-based effects in spots which don't fit the source material IMO. Sound quality is far superior to all other versions, however, it uses a new soundtrack which most of people consider average-at-best.
2) The PS1 version doesn't have any of the cuts and simplifications of the SNES version, it seems to have been built upon the Sega CD version.
3) The Sega CD version is the definitive one IMO, with several extra animation sequences and voice samples added over the Genesis version and also features an extra level segment (also on the PS1). Loading times are shorter than on the SNES.
Related videos:
"Suicide secret": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V-q9_WpRpw
"How to find Mad Doctor and Band Leader Mickeys": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOfzkOu209U
PS1 version playthrough (recorded from real hardware AFAIK): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6UDOhebk1M
Great comparison!
The SNES port of MM holds the dubious honor of being one of the few titles on the console with LOADING TIMES (others include Fatal Fury and Batman Forever, neither of which have load times on the Genesis). Every time you respawn or enter a new level segment, there stands Mickey looking at his watch as the game loads.
Agreed, very informative indeed! I've added it to the main list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarzak
Out of This World is another one with loading times on the SNES, but that port is still my preferred version, though I haven't really played the Genesis one yet. I didn't like the Sega CD port at all, but the 3DO version was quite a bit better than I expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarzak
Pitfall: The Mayan AdventurePros:
Genre: 2D Platformer | Platforms: MD/GEN, SNES/SFC, MCD/SCD, 32X, JAG, PC | Case: C
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...258549&thumb=1
Super Nintendo (Redline Games) (1994) (16 Mbit)
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...1&d=1478258820 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...2&d=1478258864 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...3&d=1478258898
- More colors on screen, with a much better shading in several spots.
- Very nice looking waterfall animation.
- Extra background parallax in Tazamul Mines stage.
- Extra animated torches for the corridors in the backgrounds of Copan Temple and Temple of Tikal.
- Sound effects have much better quality.
Cons:
- The intro sequence doesn't have scrolling.
- The title screen sequence lacks some graphical details.
- The character animation is a bit odd when you run in short bursts, like in the switch puzzle screens. When you run from a switch to another the character seems to be sliding his feet on the ground rather than walking on it.
- Lacks the animated water in the first stage.
- Lacks the health percentage for bosses.
- Lacks the HUD animations for Pitfall Harry Jr's.
- The plant used for bungee jumps has no animation when you're not holding it.
- The game doesn't keep track of some objects you move and enemies you have killed after going to another room and getting back. The other versions of the game are more consistent in this aspect.
- Some of the minor enemies on the ground can now be killed from the regular standing position of your character, which makes the game easier but also results in a shallower gameplay.
- The time freeze item doesn't freeze the waterfalls like it does in all other versions.
- The minecar in Tazamul Mines lacks its lever, which means that you can't control its speed and its breaking animation effect is missing.
- Both minecar types have static wheels instead of animated ones like in the other versions.
- The switch puzzle screens have less tile variety than in the Genesis version. The HUD doesn't disappear in such screens as it should.
- Doesn't have the scrolling clouds with parallax on the background layer in Lost City of Copan, Tikal Ruins, Warrior Spirit (Final Level) and in the ending sequence like the other versions; it's static the whole level, including the boss battles when it was supposed to scroll a lot faster.
- There's a pushable part of a wall missing in Lost City of Copan (along with the unique character animation sprites for that situation), which makes it impossible to access one of the secret 1up items.
- In Copan Temple and Temple of Tikal there's an enemy who throws fireballs and which was supposed to flash/swap to his skeleton form when you hit him. It doesn't happen in this version.
- The lagoon of Yaxchilan Lagoon is static here, instead of using a line scrolling animation effect.
- There seems to be just one type of metallic spikes sprites while the other versions have two.
- In the Balankanche Mine (Runaway Minecar) stage it cycles the Pitfall Harry Jr's animation using less frames than in the other versions.
- Tikal Ruins recycles some platform tiles from Lost City of Copan instead of using unique ones like in the Genesis version.
- In Tikal Ruins, the boss battle was somewhat changed and simplified. The boss doesn't morph back and forth like in the other versions, and it was nice to have the morph animation occurring during the battle.
- The final boss animates sluggish when compared to the Genesis version and the slowdown is heavy during the battle.
- Some noticeable slowdown at times.
- Runs at lower resolution.
- The voice samples are less used than in the other versions, making it a quieter game.
- Some tiles seem to have been redrawn for the worse.
- Lacks the waterfall sound effect in Xibalba Falls and Yaxchilan Lagoon stages.
- Some other sfx are missing/using recycled effects; example: a whip sfx is reused when you collect an item.
- There are definitely less enemies in several spots; sometimes half the original quantity.
- Controls have some lag at times, which makes it very difficult to reach certain secret areas/hidden items.
- The bungee jumps don't scroll vertically as much as in the other version, which hurts the original feel of these occasions.
- Some enemies seem to be using cheaper AI.
- The moving platforms at Lost City of Copan have unforgiving timing now.
- Collision detection seems to be iffy at times.
- The ending sequence was a bit simplified: Pitfall Harry Jr doesn't come from the stairs and he walks always in a straight line.
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...259137&thumb=1Cons:
Genesis (Activision) (1994) (16 Mbit)
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...6&d=1478260074 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...7&d=1478260684 http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...8&d=1478260740
- Dithering.
- The use of color is not optimal and the palette is unnecessarily very dark in several occasions.
- Voice samples are scratchy.
- The text messages are presented in a confusing way during the ending sequence.
- The scrolling clouds slowdown a bit during boss fights and the final boss causes some noticeable slowdown.
- The Xibalba Falls and Yaxchilan Lagoon stages run with the rendering area of the game moved to the right and reduced by 16 pixels on the left in order to avoid the vertical scrolling bug of the hardware (which only occurs in the first column, thus why the 16 pixels offset) since these stages are using this feature to animate their waterfalls.
Verdict: Genesis version is better, mainly due to the controls. Visually it's not one-sided for the SNES as people usually think and the music is OK in both versions IMO. There are several minor issues (cited above) which also hurt the gameplay of the SNES version.
Additional notes:
1) The 32X version have scrolling and slowdown problems which really hurt the gameplay. The Jaguar version has slowdown in some areas but it isn't a major issue.
2) 32X version has the extra levels from the Sega CD and PC versions. Jaguar's doesn't.
3) Jaguar version has better coloring than the SNES one in some stages and also has an extra sound effect which is not present both in the Genesis and Sega CD versions during the boss fight in Tikal Ruins.
4) Jaguar version has saves.
5) Sega CD version (aside from the extra levels, far superior sfx quality and CDDA music) seems to be identical to the Genesis one, but it actually lacks the level ruining animation (little stones falling from the roof) in the mine stages and also lacks one roar/moan sample during the morphing of the Tikal Ruins' boss. The ending sequence also has a blatant tile repetition in the last stretch of the ground (when Harry Jr finds his father) which doesn't occur in the Genesis version.
6) Sega CD version eliminates the slowdown occurrences of the Genesis version and improves the text messages' placement.
7) Sega CD version is the definitive one for consoles IMO. The PC (Windows 95) version is sort of identical to it but with better coloring (no dithering too), some extra voice samples and worse control scheme.
8) The tile work of the Genesis/Sega CD version is more consistent than in all other versions. Despite the superior coloring, the other versions have more noticeable tile rough cuts (not so much in the SNES version as in the 32X/Jaguar/PC ones), some occurrences of solid colored borders around a set of tiles (Jaguar and PC versions have noticeable issues in the switch puzzle rooms, for an example) and more tile mirroring/recycling than on the Genesis/Sega CD version.
Related videos:
Atari Jaguar version playthrough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afJy8JhiMEM
Genesis vs SNES Dual Longplay (with additional footage of other versions): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7k2u7b2jXo
PC version Longplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp2BmMl6tfw
I just finished updating my older comparisons to the new layout while adding some new bits of info.
The only issue I have is listing dithering as a con, as under the conditions of T.V.'s at the time(RF or composite) it wasn't noticeable, and would have appeared as new colors or transparency.
Fixed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
Requesting Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures. Alot of people chide it, but I always found it enjoyable.
Others games which could be compared : Aero The Acrobat 1 & 2, Street Fighter 2'SCE/Street Fighter 2 Turbo,
Disney's ones like The Lion King and so on, Cool Spot, Bubsy, MR Nutz, Mortal Kombat trilogy, TMNT Tournament Fighters,
Doom Troopers, The Smurfs games, Zool, Asterix's games, Tintin's games, Double Dragon V, Addams Family, Street Racer, etc.
Attachment 8585Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I'm just saying ^that's closer to how people would have seen it on a CRT back then(and that sling shot swing motion is not easy to grab). Otherwise even the leaves were dithered.
Btw, thanks for doing this Barone. I actually would have stuck it out with the SNES version, if I ever went through the game. I think partly because I spent too much time with the internet, and the whole "better multi-plats on the SNES" thing stuck in there, and partly because I have so much more I want to play on the Genesis, that I feel like giving the SNES the multi-plats just to not be so far behind.
As for the RnR Racing thing, however you want to look at it, I still say the Genesis version has a major advantage in that 1 more song to keep the rotation a little more fresh.
Agreed dithering is awesome in quite a few Genesis games.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
Well, let me expose my reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
1) I try to be as fair as I can when describing/reviewing games. Unlike some Sega-16 reviewers, I'm all against nostalgia as a valid factor during my evaluation of a game, for an example.
2) I try to analyze the games without letting my personal preferences and experiences play a major role, so, to me, it doesn't matter if I always played those games using RF output back in the days.
3) As much as I like to provide an analysis which doesn't fault the game for stuff like "heck, it looks like crap on my 4K Ultra HD TV" I'm also aware that composite cables were already quite common in 1994 (Pitfall's release year) and they make the dithering apparent in several segments of the game. Furthermore, in countries like France, the SCART cable came with the console, mind you. And in Japan you had both WonderMega and Mega Drive-specific S-VHS boxes in order to play the games using S-Video.
On top of that, the final boss, for an example, looks dithered even when using RF output, setting the sharpness of the CRT TV image to ZERO and throwing oil all over the screen TWO TIMES (:p).
4) I don't write these comparisons only targeting Sega fans. I try to write my stuff in a way that it will not neglect the Sega versions' cons by any means; as much as I don't like when I read Nintendo-targeted stuff which dismisses all Genesis games due to "not as much colors as on the SNES", I can't deny the fact that the Genesis versions usually have dithering to appear "colorful".
5) I have three different CRT TV models and I hate LCD, Plasma, OLED and HD stuff; I have setups for RF, composite, S-Video and Component output just to take the most out of the Mega Drive games; so you're not hearing this from a guy which loves scalers or stretched and overly filtered image.
6) Finally: How is dithering not a con if, to hide its side effect, it forces me to use a video output mode which kills the sharpness of the graphics and contributes to oversaturation?
Dithering is part of pixel art and is used in high color games. It is also used in color-challenged games to blend shades and colors.
Just like other aspects of pixel art, it can be used effectively and poorly. It isn't itself a good or bad thing, only how it is pulled off can be.
If we limit ourselves to what an average North American kid experienced back in the day, all kinds of games and hardware would be disqualified. Many Genesis games were designed around composite display and many were designed around RGB display. Separate from that, Genesis hardware has inconsistent video output. Not all models look the same.
The graphics in game comparisons should be judged for exactly what they are. Otherwise the entire process is flawed.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I just can't see it the same way, not because of nostalgia, or favoritism, but because of the intent. Yeah it's an art form, but one that was meant to utilize the technology of the era, which were blurry T.V.'s that would bring the colors together. 2600 developers made similar use of CRT blurriness, and I don't think it'd be fair to judge how it's games look on sharper T.V.'s.
They did? The 2600 has pixels so big you couldn't dither them even if you wanted to. Not following the comparison here.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider