Nitpickers thread

How many times have you read a review with the words "arcade perfect" and been sorely disappointed with the game once you've played it? For me, far too many. There's always been a tendency in the media to gloss over minor and major differences between versions of games, whether arcade translations or ports from another platform. In that same vein there's also been a history of simplification as to what version is the best at the time on the home market.

Keep in mind, I was actually somebody that loved Nick Rox's anal deconstruction of arcade translations, as he was the only reviewer within a semi-mainstream mag to not gloss over whether a game was exact, or close, to its arcade father. After the pussies at GF shunned Rox in regards to arcade translations, I had to suffer through reviews that said inexact messes like MSH on Saturn were great arcade translations, with that specific review positing that the port was 95% of what the arcade version was -- that may be so, but within that missing five percent was the speed and computer intelligence that made the game playable. Oops.

I was initially going to put this in the Genesis area, but there are many games for many platforms that this thread can be useful for (if there's anybody other than me who actually finds this stuff interesting). I will start with a Genesis game though: SFII:SCE.

The comparison will be more to the SNES Turbo than the arcade, as these two are obviously working from much the same base code.

It's always been believed that the SNES version is obviously better, and better it may still be. But beyond the issue of the Genesis having the better controller, one thing that isn't mentioned is that, in certain areas, it wins out in sound(!) effects and graphical touches. I'll go point by point as to what I've noticed, having played the two versions recently:

1. The Genesis version takes up slightly more of the screen, as the black bar is smaller. Last time I compared the two it seemed that the Genesis version also had ever so slightly bigger characters, but now I'm not so sure. I can't say why, but what seemed obvious before -- the Genesis having larger characters -- no longer seems obvious at all, and I might even say the opposite is true.

2. The Genesis version of the game also has no black bar at the character select, or character vs. screens. One wonders why, with the Genesis having the far better processor, this couldn't have been the case with the actual matches. Hmm.

3. Some background details are present on the Genny that aren't there on SNES, such as the extra couple in the background of Guile's stage, the presence of the moon on Ryu's stage (doesn't animate though) or the running faucet in Chun Li's background. On the other hand, I've noticed that the clouds animate on Blanka's stage on SNES but not Gen.

4. The elephants actually make noise throughout the match on Genesis, whereas on SNES they're silent until a character wins. This is a small issue, but how many thought Dhalsim had the coolest stage because of those elephants only to play the SNES version and wonder what happened? That was one cut that bothered me.

5. Everybody knows about the arcade opening being present on the Genesis when it wasn't on either of the SNES versions up to this point. And the title screen is true to the arcade version as well, unlike SNES Turbo. A very nice touch.

Overall, I'd still say the SNES version is better. From a presentation standpoint, the system simply has too much of an advantage as far as color palette and that legendary sound chip for this not to be the case. But it's funny to note the little dtails that made the cut for the Genesis version that didn't for SNES -- I guess those extra 4 megs actually added to the Genesis version in a few a areas.

And while the Genesis version of Hyper/Champ has some advantages and can compete with the SNES version, I'm not so sure as far as Super. The SNES version has every background detail of the Genesis this time, including those missing in previous versions (the water now runs in Chun Li's stage, Ryu's moon is present, Guile's pals make an appearance, etc.), as well as having some details the Genesis version is lacking, such as the updated signage in Balrog's stage. The new character stages also look pathetic on Genesis next to the SNES -- just check out Cammy's stage for an example -- whether this is because they taxed the Genesis' color palette to too great an extent or the programmers just made horrible choices is debatable, but the SNES stages look quite good while drubbing the Genesis.

The sound also took a step backward, sounding terrible as far as samples even compared to the less than stellar SCE. The SNES? While the announcer and sound effects are somewhat questionable, the music at times sounds nearly CD quality -- but this is one area that the Genesis could never really compete. The question remains why the audio was so awful for Genesis for this version, but maybe just too much was compressed into that little cart. At least the Genesis version has a sound sample or two that's missing from the SNES version, such as the "Round -, Fight" announcement.

I prefer the expert mode only on Genesis though, and Nomad hides a good amount of its flaws. What looks bad and sound horrendous on tv has the illusion of a lot of color on the smaller screen and doesn't sound nearly as awful. In fact, I've probably played this version of Super as much or more than any other since it's been the best portable SF for most of its existence.

Anyway, anybody else have any bitchy/nitpicky comparisons to make?

Yeah...

Ikaruga on the Dreamcast and Gamecube:

One simple thing, the much more powerful Gamecube lags more the the Dreamcast when the boss's at the end of the level blow up.

The GC version seems to a bit easier too. I don't know what it is, I think it is in the speed of the game. But the Dreamcast one is harder for me to play and its not the controller (as I prefer the DC one much more).

I think that is all my beef with it. I haven't played in the GC one in awhile so I may have forgotten other things that bugged me about it.

Battletoads Double Dragon is an interesting case.

The SNES version has more detail in the backgrounds, but they're completely static. The Genny's backgrounds may not look as nice in screenshots, but they actually have moving parts. The SNES version has bigger, nicer-looking sprites, but this large size just makes it easier for enemies to hit you. Also, the enemies in the SNES version seem more aggressive, making it harder -- and lemme tell you, the game's damn hard enough as it is. The SNES version tries to show off the 'superior' sound chip, but the game is a textbook example of how some things just shouldn't be upsampled. The little post-stage taunts feature scrolling backgrounds in the Genesis version but not the SNES version. The Genesis version has color-changing backgrounds in level 3, but that was conspicuously taken out of the SNES version.* The SNES version oddly has no boss theme, instead continuing the tune from the level as if nothing different were happening.

* I've been told that the color-changing backgrounds present in the Genesis version were programmed by utilizing the systems dedicated color memory, something SNES doesn't have.

Battletoads and Double Dragon.. I myself also did a bit of a comparison between the Genesis and SNES versions, but also the NES. For the most part, the Genesis version more resembles the NES version than the SNES, in terms of stage colouring and sprites. The character select screen is shared between the NES and Genesis (albeit with more colour for the Genesis), whereas the SNES has totally redrawn headshots of the 'Toads, Billy and Jimmy. ..and the Genesis version is considerably more enjoyable, because, yeah.. the standard enemies in the SNES version are manic sadists.

The NES version's still pretty cool, though.

Doom. Now there's a game that simply failed to live up to any 'perfect conversion' hype for the console releases in '94. Just what was up with the missing enemies? And no in-game music for Jaguar Doom? Weak.

Wasn't Jag Doom so lousy that it didn't even have the Cyber Demon? The 95 SNES port even managed to have the Cyber Demon.

The PS version owned -- the sound was amazing in that version, better than anything any other console or PC could pump out back then. I've heard the very late Saturn port sucks. Anybody play it?

There's a thorough evaluation of Saturn Doom, and every other Doom, on this page: http://faqs.ign.com/articles/369/369100p1.html#4

..and as for Jag Doom, yeah, there is no Invisidemon, Arachnotron, or Cyber Demon, but the same goes for the 32x version as well. Two boss characters missing? How very lame. Mind you, the port to SNES required the shaving off of many things Doom as well. Final Doom for the PlayStation is my personal top Doom console pick, although Doom 64 has its moments.

SNES

Pros: Basic map layouts tend to match the equivalent PC-Doom 1 maps with
above-average accuracy (higher accuracy, overall, than that found in every
other console version).

Peh.

..in reference to level map layout, yes.. accurate indeed. Sadly that sentence does not apply to the rest of the game. It's still a fun enough version of Doom, but nowhere near an exact PC translation.

Oh I know. I bought the SNES version, and had a great time with it at the time. But a month or two later I bought the Playstation version when it came out. There's no question as to what the best console release was. Though what was the best of the lesser versions (32X, Jag, SNES) is debatable -- I haven't played the others, but from what I know of them I'd venture that the SNES actually outdid two more powerful pieces of hardware with its version.

I don't even like the base PC version as much as the PS version overall.

In terms of Dooms, the SNES version is the only one I found to be entirely unplayable. The framerate was so incredibly choppy I couldn't aim properly.

I used to have the Saturn version, it wasn't bad at all. But I had the Japanese release, which I've been told had some improvements over the US release.

I love the Playstation version of the original. It also included Doom 2, which was awesome at the time. I need to get that again and take out some demons...

Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game was another disappointment as far as print hype. GF called it arcade perfect on Playstation. Um, no. The game's characters are massively smaller and less detailed, there's definitely some commentary missing, and there were audience members that were clearly excised, including most annoyingly of all Lawler and McMahon at the commentator's table (it's just EMPTY on PS)! Meh.

Anybody play the Saturn Wrestlemania? I assume they just shifted the code over from Playstation.

As far as 2D arcade ports, the only thing that ever struck me as perfect on PS was SFA.

The most impressive 2d fighting conversion on Playstation to me was, oddly enough, Pocket Fighter. That was a good port.

I remember that many were highly impressed with SFA3 on PS, and that some even prefer it gameplay-wise over the DC version. But all home versions, other than the import-only Saturn version, are supposedly busted.

The Saturn version is an incredible port. Strangely enough, I haven't played the other ports.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 16bitter

The comparison will be more to the SNES Turbo than the arcade, as these two are obviously working from much the same base code.

It's always been believed that the SNES version is obviously better, and better it may still be. But beyond the issue of the Genesis having the better controller, one thing that isn't mentioned is that, in certain areas, it wins out in sound(!) effects and graphical touches. I'll go point by point as to what I've noticed, having played the two versions recently:

1. The Genesis version takes up slightly more of the screen, as the black bar is smaller. Last time I compared the two it seemed that the Genesis version also had ever so slightly bigger characters, but now I'm not so sure. I can't say why, but what seemed obvious before -- the Genesis having larger characters -- no longer seems obvious at all, and I might even say the opposite is true.

2. The Genesis version of the game also has no black bar at the character select, or character vs. screens. One wonders why, with the Genesis having the far better processor, this couldn't have been the case with the actual matches. Hmm.

3. Some background details are present on the Genny that aren't there on SNES, such as the extra couple in the background of Guile's stage, the presence of the moon on Ryu's stage (doesn't animate though) or the running faucet in Chun Li's background. On the other hand, I've noticed that the clouds animate on Blanka's stage on SNES but not Gen.

4. The elephants actually make noise throughout the match on Genesis, whereas on SNES they're silent until a character wins. This is a small issue, but how many thought Dhalsim had the coolest stage because of those elephants only to play the SNES version and wonder what happened? That was one cut that bothered me.

5. Everybody knows about the arcade opening being present on the Genesis when it wasn't on either of the SNES versions up to this point. And the title screen is true to the arcade version as well, unlike SNES Turbo. A very nice touch.

Overall, I'd still say the SNES version is better. From a presentation standpoint, the system simply has too much of an advantage as far as color palette and that legendary sound chip for this not to be the case. But it's funny to note the little dtails that made the cut for the Genesis version that didn't for SNES -- I guess those extra 4 megs actually added to the Genesis version in a few a areas.

And while the Genesis version of Hyper/Champ has some advantages and can compete with the SNES version, I'm not so sure as far as Super. The SNES version has every background detail of the Genesis this time, including those missing in previous versions (the water now runs in Chun Li's stage, Ryu's moon is present, Guile's pals make an appearance, etc.), as well as having some details the Genesis version is lacking, such as the updated signage in Balrog's stage. The new character stages also look pathetic on Genesis next to the SNES -- just check out Cammy's stage for an example -- whether this is because they taxed the Genesis' color palette to too great an extent or the programmers just made horrible choices is debatable, but the SNES stages look quite good while drubbing the Genesis.

The sound also took a step backward, sounding terrible as far as samples even compared to the less than stellar SCE. The SNES? While the announcer and sound effects are somewhat questionable, the music at times sounds nearly CD quality -- but this is one area that the Genesis could never really compete. The question remains why the audio was so awful for Genesis for this version, but maybe just too much was compressed into that little cart. At least the Genesis version has a sound sample or two that's missing from the SNES version, such as the "Round -, Fight" announcement.

I prefer the expert mode only on Genesis though, and Nomad hides a good amount of its flaws. What looks bad and sound horrendous on tv has the illusion of a lot of color on the smaller screen and doesn't sound nearly as awful. In fact, I've probably played this version of Super as much or more than any other since it's been the best portable SF for most of its existence.

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Sounds like material for a "Side by Side" article to me!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 16bitter

The comparison will be more to the SNES Turbo than the arcade, as these two are obviously working from much the same base code.

It's always been believed that the SNES version is obviously better, and better it may still be. But beyond the issue of the Genesis having the better controller, one thing that isn't mentioned is that, in certain areas, it wins out in sound(!) effects and graphical touches. I'll go point by point as to what I've noticed, having played the two versions recently:

1. The Genesis version takes up slightly more of the screen, as the black bar is smaller. Last time I compared the two it seemed that the Genesis version also had ever so slightly bigger characters, but now I'm not so sure. I can't say why, but what seemed obvious before -- the Genesis having larger characters -- no longer seems obvious at all, and I might even say the opposite is true.

2. The Genesis version of the game also has no black bar at the character select, or character vs. screens. One wonders why, with the Genesis having the far better processor, this couldn't have been the case with the actual matches. Hmm.

3. Some background details are present on the Genny that aren't there on SNES, such as the extra couple in the background of Guile's stage, the presence of the moon on Ryu's stage (doesn't animate though) or the running faucet in Chun Li's background. On the other hand, I've noticed that the clouds animate on Blanka's stage on SNES but not Gen.

4. The elephants actually make noise throughout the match on Genesis, whereas on SNES they're silent until a character wins. This is a small issue, but how many thought Dhalsim had the coolest stage because of those elephants only to play the SNES version and wonder what happened? That was one cut that bothered me.

5. Everybody knows about the arcade opening being present on the Genesis when it wasn't on either of the SNES versions up to this point. And the title screen is true to the arcade version as well, unlike SNES Turbo. A very nice touch.

Overall, I'd still say the SNES version is better. From a presentation standpoint, the system simply has too much of an advantage as far as color palette and that legendary sound chip for this not to be the case. But it's funny to note the little dtails that made the cut for the Genesis version that didn't for SNES -- I guess those extra 4 megs actually added to the Genesis version in a few a areas.

And while the Genesis version of Hyper/Champ has some advantages and can compete with the SNES version, I'm not so sure as far as Super. The SNES version has every background detail of the Genesis this time, including those missing in previous versions (the water now runs in Chun Li's stage, Ryu's moon is present, Guile's pals make an appearance, etc.), as well as having some details the Genesis version is lacking, such as the updated signage in Balrog's stage. The new character stages also look pathetic on Genesis next to the SNES -- just check out Cammy's stage for an example -- whether this is because they taxed the Genesis' color palette to too great an extent or the programmers just made horrible choices is debatable, but the SNES stages look quite good while drubbing the Genesis.

The sound also took a step backward, sounding terrible as far as samples even compared to the less than stellar SCE. The SNES? While the announcer and sound effects are somewhat questionable, the music at times sounds nearly CD quality -- but this is one area that the Genesis could never really compete. The question remains why the audio was so awful for Genesis for this version, but maybe just too much was compressed into that little cart. At least the Genesis version has a sound sample or two that's missing from the SNES version, such as the "Round -, Fight" announcement.

I prefer the expert mode only on Genesis though, and Nomad hides a good amount of its flaws. What looks bad and sound horrendous on tv has the illusion of a lot of color on the smaller screen and doesn't sound nearly as awful. In fact, I've probably played this version of Super as much or more than any other since it's been the best portable SF for most of its existence.

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Sounds like material for a "Side by Side" article to me!

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If you want me to write such an article, I'd only ask what parameters would be in place -- maximum/minimum length, how many games you'd want to feature, so forth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 16bitter

Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game was another disappointment as far as print hype. GF called it arcade perfect on Playstation. Um, no. The game's characters are massively smaller and less detailed, there's definitely some commentary missing, and there were audience members that were clearly excised, including most annoyingly of all Lawler and McMahon at the commentator's table (it's just EMPTY on PS)! Meh.

Anybody play the Saturn Wrestlemania? I assume they just shifted the code over from Playstation.

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I forgot to mention the lack of tips during or early in the match, and the fact that the royal rumble matchup screen only featured 3 opponents instead of the arcade's full roster (I would surmise that this was unavoidable due to ram).

Lawler and McMahon were present on Genesis. Yet they couldn't manage this on PS. :mad:

MKII and MK3 from MAT2 for XBox both deserve special recognition foor being absolutely lazy emulations. Shadows flicker in both, MK3 has terrible sample/music balance as well as dropout and overlap, the dragons sometimes freeze near the edge of the screen on the tomb stage, etc.

And best of all I discovered that Smoke is unreachable in MKII. That's right, you can't fight Smoke on this supposedly "arcade perfect" version of the game! The idiots who pushed this out the door were too indolent to realize or bother with the fact that assigning start as pause would take away any chance to fight Smoke (down+start on the Portal stage when "Toasty" Dan appears). On the same note, no random select in MKII -- yet for some reason they realized their mistake and fixed this for MK3 by assitgning the button press to 'a' instead of start.

These are, of course, still technically the arcade games at their base. Only problem is that those who stuck them on the discs for emulation didn't care to work out the kinks, leaving them imperfect even while being the actual arcade games. Ugh.

I remembered that the loss headshots animate on the Genny SFIICE unlike SFII Turbo on SNES. There quite a few little touches on Genesis that the SNES doesn't have. For whatever reason, hardly any reviewer made mention of these differences at the time of release; instead the Genesis version was painted as inferior across the board (aside from the opening), and late.

Meh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 16bitter

If you want me to write such an article, I'd only ask what parameters would be in place -- maximum/minimum length, how many games you'd want to feature, so forth.

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Articles should be somewhere between 700 and 1000 words, and I usually break down the SbS articles into these categories:

- Graphics
- Sound/music
- Gameplay
- Other

There's room for more, like "plot" in the Dungeon Explorer article, and "presentation" in the VF one, but this depends on the games themselves. Feel free to include them as you see fit.

I guess you'd cover the SNES and Genny ones. To include every version of SFII ever made would be maddening to write, and these two seem to be the most popular (and controversial) versions.

the genesis ones could have been better ,BTW the genesis at least could have taxed all their colours or at least 50 which they don’t do much but i still prefer 50 or 60 they can do that with they’re processor, and i know the music from sf2 new challengers is bit more guitar at least they wanted it to be that’s an pro for the genesis the guitar samples it could do while snes never can match those, like i say that’s the strong point of the genesis guitar samples ,Believe me anyone who may or calls genesis sound inferior may do but they cant admit that comix zone its sound is never doable on a snes and that its on par in its own way. but hell back to the subject the sound could have been like the snes version or could have had Thick Guitar samples like i know we could have loved more. if you ask me street fighter on genesis make snes lover thoughts true, like genesis fulfilling its limitations and not even bothers to surpass em,I have to say that the TG16 version does a very good job also for an 8bit version i like that one and you can play it portable. I would have liked to see an Game gear conversion back in the days, My nephew was one of those spoiled ones he had one, man that thing was cool back in the day I still enjoyed Triple trouble a while ago it even had raster effects for the water What the hell how neat.

I was a huge nitpicker back in the day, and here were a few things that just drove me nuts... still does to this day actually.

Out Run - The girl's hair does not flap in the wind.
MKII - The chains in the dead pool level are in the BACKGROUND and not the foreground like in the SNES and arcade, in addition to the crouching move and the lack of voices.
After Burner 2 - You'll noice in the arcade, the aircraft carrier scrolls into view then follows the airplane into the air. The genesis version just SITS THERE as the plane flies off.

Doesn't anyone remember Final Fight and the complaints Capcom got from fans who bought the SNES version - sucked, because so much was edited out of it (missing character, less stages, bad graphics in comparison the arcade version, overall it felt very much a quick cash-in with development only half done), yet, they released a new version with the missing character back in, fans were still not pleased. Finally however, they released it once again, this time on the Mega/Sega CD and fans rejoiced, it included most of the cuts made to the arcade version, as well as, having incredible sound quality, graphics that were almost arcade perfect and an extra mode of play. Kinda ironic that Capcom gave Sega the best version of Nintendo's Streets Of Rage series rival - Final Fight... :lol:

It was lame, though, that there was no Sega version of Final Fight 2 (which I found to be superior to Final Fight). I also thought there should've been a Genesis cart release of Final Fight, since it could've easily done almost everything in the CD release except for the audio.

Yeah, I think the sound was important to the game though, the music set the tone perfectly in the Sega CD version. I dunno, I think Final Fight 3 was better than FF2 which felt like nothing more than a rehash with only Hagger kept in.