Why the Genesis video resolution was higher than most other systems at the time?

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Originally Posted by Pyron

We are talking about graphics and show some images helps to ilustrate some point
also you can said alot of stuff here.. thats cps-1 runs on 384*224 thats really a advantage
but you back in 80's and 90's you really know something about that? NO
you just going to machine look at screen and feel the game and presetation
and for everyoje in the time looks just another game runing in 320x224 on the side

lets talk about it..
Take your example, you said alot of captain commando, about 4 players cabinet, gameplay and etc..
in the same year we are playing turtles in time on arcades
have the 4 players coop, much bether animation, bether music, bether voices, full voice over intro,
cool presentation between stages, cool bosses, scaling effects, more dinamic and fun gameplay
one of the bests beat 'em ups out there..

its simple

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I quoted the BT claims a few posts ago so we could stay on the subject, 'cause you kept deviating from it, ignoring the time frame, etc.

He mentioned "resolution and level of shading" and then you pasted shit like Pit Fighter as something impressive. Gimme a break, man.

Blade Master's sprites have good shading, but its backgrounds don't. They actually deliver less details and inferior shading to the Capcom games released at the same year. You must be blind to not see the difference or really hate Capcom to not be willing to admit it.

I didn't talk about Captain Commando's gameplay, the fact it supports 4 simultaneous players obviously impacts in how much animation it has to handle on the screen given that each playable character is completely different from the other.

But now about arcade's Turtles in Time vs Captain Commando, again, Captain Commando has *clearly* better shading. One just have to look at the characters to notice that (each screenshot received a 3x resize with no filtering):

http://i.imgur.com/eS2nMDf.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/2Wa9L8s.png

http://i.imgur.com/t48VAzh.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/Gv1yj74.png

And I'd love to see you trying to come up with any kind of measurement that could support your claim that TiT has "much bether animation". Hint: sprites sheets won't favor TiT.

But I "hype" and "overlook", OK.

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

Yes, i'm agree with you, it is a different style and also great pixel art and not a hardware limitation.
Undercover cops has also this colors choice and everyone is agree about high level pixel art of this game.

Arcade pcb :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZblYfUN_Q0

Before neo geo, most SNK games was on 256*224. ( beast buster, prehistoric isle in 1930, street smart, POW etc...)
But there was also some SNK games on 384*224 ( or 224*384 for vertical games ). ( psycho soldier, bermuda triangle,guerilla war...)

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also data east on begining of 90's launches boards based on m68k thats have amazing graphics for the time on games like robocop 2 and caveman ninja
in 91 they release boards based on 32bit arm cpu that did captain america and the avengers and night slashers. Taito did Darius 2 on 89 with 3 monitors and was high res graphics and a rich pixel art and colors on the screens.. every company in this time are doing their job to deliver the best

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Originally Posted by Barone

I quoted the BT claims a few posts ago so we could stay on the subject, 'cause you kept deviating from it, ignoring the time frame, etc.

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Man please dont do it, everything that i showed here is from the same period of any thing you quoted before...

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Originally Posted by Barone

He mentioned "resolution and level of shading" and then you pasted shit like Pit Fighter as something impressive. Gimme a break, man.

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You asked.. show me something impressive at same time..
you can hate it, and it really have a few frames of animation and i agree with you
but they tried do something diferent, the game have digitalized chars, scaling and makes a huge sucess at time
ask for anyone on arcades.. what is more impressive side by side in same year?

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Originally Posted by Barone

Blade Master's sprites have good shading, but its backgrounds don't. They actually deliver less details and inferior shading to the Capcom games released at the same year. You must be blind to not see the difference or really hate Capcom to not be willing to admit it.

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Dude i really love what the capcom did on the arcades, the a lot of the good moments of my childhood was playing their games
i already said here that in game department they are one of the best

Stage 1 from both games, i'm blind?
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/fin...commando-3.pnghttp://www.arcade-museum.com/images/...1242060377.png

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Originally Posted by Barone

I didn't talk about Captain Commando's gameplay, the fact it supports 4 simultaneous players obviously impacts in how much animation it has to handle on the screen given that each playable character is completely different from the other.

But now about arcade's Turtles in Time vs Captain Commando, again, Captain Commando has *clearly* better shading. One just have to look at the characters to notice that (each screenshot received a 3x resize with no filtering):

http://i.imgur.com/eS2nMDf.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/2Wa9L8s.png

http://i.imgur.com/t48VAzh.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/Gv1yj74.png

And I'd love to see you trying to come up with any kind of measurement that could support your claim that TiT has "much bether animation". Hint: sprites sheets won't favor TiT.

But I "hype" and "overlook", OK.

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I think is very clear that is just a different art style?
One is cartoon based and tried look like it and captain commando was your own styles
TiT have others advantages thats i already sad

About animation i agree with you that's 4 players thats looks almost the same make the things easier
but everything is vivid in this game, the turtles by itself are very good and the enemys is full of life
but if you wanna sprites sheets..

The regular enemy of TiT have almost the same number of frames than the main char and the regular enemy of Captains Commando together
https://www.spriters-resource.com/re...s/52/55325.png
https://www.spriters-resource.com/re...ets/6/5759.gif
https://www.spriters-resource.com/re...s/49/51588.png

*Ps: The others ninjas colors have their exclusives frames too

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Originally Posted by Pyron

Man please dont do it, everything that i showed here is from the same period of any thing you quoted before...

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This is one of your quotes:

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SNK games is far more impressive tham anything capcom did.. take samurai shadow 2 and compare with any game on cps1 system..
have two worlds of diferences here..

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Enough said. ;)

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Originally Posted by Pyron

You asked.. show me something impressive at same time..
you can hate it, and it really have a few frames of animation and i agree with you
but they tried do something diferent, the game have digitalized chars, scaling and makes a huge sucess at time
ask for anyone on arcades.. what is more impressive side by side in same year?

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It looks like shit IMO and I've never heard it was a huge success.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

i'm blind?

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The tiny screenshots hide the nastiness of its dithering and makes it difficult to evaluate how much detail each game shows (again, 3x scaling with no filtering):

http://i.imgur.com/AhqFA42.png
http://i.imgur.com/ktIyIFO.png

Captain Commando makes better use of the resolution mode it runs.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

I think is very clear that is just a different art style?

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I agree, but you suggested it in a discussion which was supposed to be centered at resolutions, level of shading, etc.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

The regular enemy of TiT have almost the same number of frames than the main char and the regular enemy of Captains Commando together

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The same could be said about it compared to the TiT turtles + TiT bosses.
The ninjas aren't that big and they're used over and over again; while Captain Commando has more different enemies each one of them with less fluid animation, yes.
But I find it a stretch to say TiT has "much better" animation. The turtles walking frames aren't that good to begin with and the bosses are pretty much in the same range of the Capcom games (25-40 frames depending on the size of the characters).

Using IrfanView;

http://i.imgur.com/AhqFA42.png
^ 147 unique colours

http://i.imgur.com/ktIyIFO.png
^ 130 unique colours

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Originally Posted by Barone

This is one of your quotes:

Enough said. ;)

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And is true, you can try zoom in 3x times any cps-1 against it to see by yourself

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Originally Posted by Barone

It looks like shit IMO and I've never heard it was a huge success.

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Pit Fighter is not a Street Fighter 2 but everyone knows about him...
ask about it in any arcade and the people will tell about the game
later mortal kombat takes his places but didn't takes his importance at the time

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Originally Posted by Barone

The tiny screenshots hide the nastiness of its dithering and makes it difficult to evaluate how much detail each game shows (again, 3x scaling with no filtering):

Captain Commando makes better use of the resolution mode it runs.

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The post of Thief with color count show what i trying show to you
Even you choosing a place that's favorize your point instead using the same example from stage 1 without take a pick from blade master thats blocks the second layer of background =D

I really i dont understand why you did that

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Originally Posted by Barone

The same could be said about it compared to the TiT turtles + TiT bosses.
The ninjas aren't that big and they're used over and over again; while Captain Commando has more different enemies each one of them with less fluid animation, yes.
But I find it a stretch to say TiT has "much better" animation. The turtles walking frames aren't that good to begin with and the bosses are pretty much in the same range of the Capcom games (25-40 frames depending on the size of the characters).

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TiT follow the cartoon, they just face foot soldiers and some others things and everyones are in the game to equalize that they put alot of others elements on stages
just play both side by side... is very clear who is betther in this subject

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Originally Posted by Pyron

And is true, you can try zoom in 3x times any cps-1 against it to see by yourself

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Then you don't like when I say you completely missed the point BT was making.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

Pit Fighter is not a Street Fighter 2 but everyone knows about him...
ask about it in any arcade and the people will tell about the game
later mortal kombat takes his places but didn't takes his importance at the time

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I'll not even comment this part.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

The post of Thief with color count show what i trying show to you

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So now it's about unique colors on screen? Not shading, not resolution, not graphics definition... Geez.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

Even you choosing a place that's favorize your point instead using the same example from stage 1 without take a pick from blade master thats blocks the second layer of background =D
I really i dont understand why you did that

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I chose shots which had a somewhat darker theme.
And I wanted to show how "good" the other character looked in the game you picked. His chest is indistinguishable, but I bet you think it looks great. The same for the background tiles with poor shading.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

TiT follow the cartoon, they just face foot soldiers and some others things and everyones are in the game to equalize that they put alot of others elements on stages
just play both side by side... is very clear who is betther in this subject

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If you only had understood the subject to begin with.

I don't have time to go into detail about so many misconceptions in recent posts. I do find it ironic that in such desperate attempts to revise history so that Capcom's arcade games were both ugly and titles with no impact on the 16-bit generation... peopke are actually contradicting their posting history and now going to great lengths to prove that the SNES is just so superior to Genesis. "Lower resolution + higher color counts are all that matters, no natter how fugly or uninspired the artwork."

It's a good thing that the Turbo-CD port of Pit Fighter got cancelled, otherwise the TG-16 would have gone head to head against SNES, while the Genesis died out early on.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

I do find it ironic that in such desperate attempts to revise history so that Capcom's arcade games were both ugly and titles with no impact on the 16-bit generation... peopke are actually contradicting their posting history and now going to great lengths to prove that the SNES is just so superior to Genesis. "Lower resolution + higher color counts are all that matters, no natter how fugly or uninspired the artwork."

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:D

It really is funny and ironic, where you say that something a fan likes is not surprising and stratigraphic as he claims to be is the same as saying that ugly and disgusting,
typical of children in kindergarten that subverts everything you say Since it does not have good arguments.

:D :D :D

Pit Fighter was fairly big -- at least in the northeastern US in the early 1990s. It was a machine I saw quite regularly at arcades, and the 3P simultaneous gameplay and digitized graphics certainly caught my eye (and others' as well -- I remember it as being fairly busy). It hasn't aged well to say the least, but it definitely made a splash at the time.

Again, to be clear, I'm not arguing anything about the game's quality or long-term importance. But I think it had a real impact, and probably did whet our collective appetite for the more explicit brutality of Mortal Kombat.

I swear the discussion here had devolved into "resolution X sucks because this game had resolution Y" (regardless of whether it's larger or smaller)

OFF: Talking about impressive games for their time i choose the 1991 Captain American Arcade game.
The backgrounds still looks very impressive to me!

The game runs in 320x240 and they used digitalized hand drawed art for the game backgrounds and they looks extremely detailed and with cartoon like quality. Looks like they don't drawed with tiles, but with a full bitmap loaded directly from the ROM. Theres no other game from this year with backgrounds so impressive!
https://tcrf.net/images/c/c6/Captain...BG_Cropped.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...)_gameplay.png
http://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/re...2011_17_23.pnghttp://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/re...2014_10_31.png

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Originally Posted by Pyron

also data east on begining of 90's launches boards based on m68k thats have amazing graphics for the time on games like robocop 2 and caveman ninja
in 91 they release boards based on 32bit arm cpu that did captain america and the avengers and night slashers. Taito did Darius 2 on 89 with 3 monitors and was high res graphics and a rich pixel art and colors on the screens.. every company in this time are doing their job to deliver the best

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End of 80's until 1991, Data east was more on 256*240 as caveman ninja, vapor trail, dragon ninja, crude buster, midnight resistance, atomic runner...
And then they passed on 320*240 as roha armor force, captain america, robocop 2, night slasher etc...

Very great artistic touch with caveman ninja...

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

peopke are actually contradicting their posting history and now going to great lengths to prove that the SNES is just so superior to Genesis. "Lower resolution + higher color counts are all that matters, no natter how fugly or uninspired the artwork."

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Yes, artwork, artistic touch is the most important and also great colour use, resolution comes at the end.
After all, one of the best looking megadrive game ( beautiful graphics and design ) is on 256*224, i speak about monster world 4.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

I don't have time to go into detail about so many misconceptions in recent posts. I do find it ironic that in such desperate attempts to revise history so that Capcom's arcade games were both ugly and titles with no impact on the 16-bit generation... peopke are actually contradicting their posting history and now going to great lengths to prove that the SNES is just so superior to Genesis. "Lower resolution + higher color counts are all that matters, no natter how fugly or uninspired the artwork."

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Nobody said they were ugly, just refuting that anything that wasn't made by Capcom has inferior graphics, which is kinda insulting considering all the cool looking games that came out in the first half of 90s, not to mention it's a pretty subjective matter.
I think Turtles in Time has shit gameplay compared to any Capcom beat 'em up, but I'd be crazy to say it looks bad or inferior, the sprite animation is excellent and so are many of the backgrounds.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/tmn...t-tit-ac-8.png

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Originally Posted by LinkueiBR

OFF: Talking about impressive games for their time i choose the 1991 Captain American Arcade game.
The backgrounds still looks very impressive to me!

The game runs in 320x240 and they used digitalized hand drawed art for the game backgrounds and they looks extremely detailed and with cartoon like quality. Looks like they don't drawed with tiles, but with a full bitmap loaded directly from the ROM. Theres no other game from this year with backgrounds so impressive!
https://tcrf.net/images/c/c6/Captain...BG_Cropped.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...)_gameplay.png
http://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/re...2011_17_23.pnghttp://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/re...2014_10_31.png

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Totally agree, the backgrounds in Captain America are amazing, and while the sprites are tiny they are still very nicely animated.