What is Sega doing with their awesome stable of legendary IPs these days?

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Originally Posted by StarMist

This is a total flop from your previous statement that it would've been buried beneath the hype of FFVII. And before the PSO/-U games the Phantasy Star title still bore a measure of cachet, however much diminished by the circumstances of #4's release.
There's no insane grinding in PS2, it's all exploration; as I've said elsewhere there's no more grinding in it than in FFVII, only the dungeons are magnificently longer than tiny places like Shinra Mansion or Mt Wu so one sees more combat twixt save points. Vagueness is fine and plot holes customary in a story, where precision is often tedious and the central theme overblown romanticism. Star Ocean's, eg, are quite unbearable, I wish they had even less. Btw I don't know how you get through those games if you can't stomach a turn based RPG, Star Ocean with its alchemy system is the thickest menu hell there is (not saying the one on PS wasn't cool). ---- Anyway I didn't suggest the story was weak, I replied to your statement the original storyline irrevocably concluded with PSIV, which, to repeat, is not a problem. Sega probably has done one of the things I suggested with the storyline, I simply couldn't endure playing their new version long enough to find out.

Lastly Metroid Prime is much closer to the original Metroids than Online is to the original Phantasy Stars: it's a 3D version of the 2D games, whilst Online is a totally different engine and atmosphere (partly due to the added dialogue and plotting, which together form one of the chief dangers of modern RPGs, it's too easy to clutter something grand and pure with chatty garbage).

@OP = I do think there's theoretical hope for Golden Axe and Streets of Rage. Nevermind Fighting Force and the abomination that was Beast Rider, these games really could be made true to their spirit despite the necessity of 3D construction. An exm of similar success would be the Pandemoniums which featured wholly traditional 2D gameplay with a new feel lent by their polygonal construction along with a perfect usage of camera angles that exploited the 3D construction for novel vantage points and panoramas w/o infringing on the gameplay. Modern hack and slash games suffer from poor camera placement: distant overheads, gimmicky pans and reels, that sort of thing. Remove these and oldschool brawlers would have a chance.

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How is it a flop from my previous statement? FFVII kicked off the JRPG flood that went from the mid PS1 era well into the PS2 era. It's what introduced tons of people to the JRPG genre. Tons of other great JRPGs were buried under the hype of mainstream titles from Square Enix and other RPG giants of the era. Throw in the fact that Phantasy Star was never as popular in the west as it was in Japan and you can easily come to the conclusion that a Standard JRPG Phantasy Star would have been buried and considered a cult classic at best like so many other RPG series from that era.

I can put up with a turn based battle system in classic RPGs because it was part of the era. Newer ones however are slow, boring, and too over the top. They have devolved to the point of where you pick an attack from a menu then watch animations for 5 minutes. It gets boring. I can put up with Star Ocean because I don't have to deal with the menu systems if I don't want to. If I want to I can just go through and beat the crap out of enemies quickly in real time.

And I fail to see how the minimal dialog in the online Phantasy Star games is overly chatty garbage. And how is a first person shooter more true to a 2d platformer than an online RPG is to a single player RPG? The games are still sci fi RPGs for crying out loud. That's like saying Panzer Dragoon Saga isn't a true Panzer Dragoon game because it's not a rail shooter.

Your entire argument against the online Phantasy Star games seems to be based entirely on the fact that they didn't make it remain a dated RPG from the late 80's and early 90's. You sound just like those stupid Sonic fanatics who cry and bitch every time a new Sonic game is released that isn't a remake of Sonic 1. God forbid Sega try new things as opposed to repeating the same old thing over and over again like other companies.

Have you honestly even played the online Phantasy Star games? The fact you mentioned that modern hack and slash games have terrible camera systems leads me to believe you haven't. The newer Phantasy Star games have an excellent camera system that follows behind your character and moves with them. And if the camera gets a bit behind you can tap the L trigger to bring it instantly behind your character. On top of that you can move the camera freely with the 2nd analog stick as well as go into a first person mode for more precise aiming of ranged attacks.

The GA/SOR comment is separate from our wrangle, ie as it says in bold @OP.

FFVII kicked off nothing. There was no greater proportion of RPGs on the PS1 and PS2 than there were on the SNES, whether in the West or Japan. And as Silanda and I pointed out Phantasy Star was an established name and therefore unlikely to get buried or drowned or whatever expression you employed.

"Trying new things" is fine. Doing them badly is not. Abandoning something great to do something less so under its aegis is totally hackish. Sonic Adventure's and Mario 64's 3D construction is a business kneejerk to the 32 bit era, ie the wrong supposition that everything must be 3D in order to sell; additionally it's a tech demo stance, proving the console is hip. Both are self inflicted compulsive responses along the lines of Panasonic's signing Dennis Miller as the 3D0's spokesman or the Sega CD having that Marky Mark shit because they perceived that's what was necessary to be alamode. However Mario 64 is forgivable since it's a success; Sonic Adventure unforgivable since it's a dull disaster.

Sonic Adventure is only a dull disaster in the eyes of the small minority of Sonic Fans who think Sonic only works if it's a clone of Sonic 1. If Sonic Adventure was truly a dull disaster it wouldn't have been a system seller with tons of amazing reviews in 1999. It wouldn't have gotten a sequel 2 years later that also got amazing reviews and sold well on both the Dreamcast and Gamecube. If that was in turn a disaster it wouldn't have seen a sequel in the form of Sonic Heroes on the Gamecube, PS2, and Xbox which also got good reviews and sold very well. The first three 3D Sonic games were great games that were well received and were huge successes upon their release. It is only after the release of the unfinished Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 that people have started to say 3D Sonic was always bad, and that's only because again that small minority uses Sonic 2006 to scream "WE TOLD YOU SO!" at the top of their lungs. I bet if Sonic 2006 had more development time and was released without any of the game breaking bugs, and it's level design more polished, and other gameplay ideas more polished people would have a completely different outlook on 3D Sonic games today. The only truly bad 3D Sonic game was Sonic 2006, and that's only because it was rushed and released in an unfinished state.

And Phantasy Star Online is still a great game. In my opinion Sega abandoned an aging over used system for something new and overall better. Just because it's not a turn based game doesn't mean it's not a real Phantasy Star and it doesn't mean it's not an excellent game. If you wont even try the game, you have no right to say it's bad. I've played all the classic Phantasy Stars and I've played most of the online ones, and I can say that the online games are just as fun and excellent to play as the old single player RPGs.

And sorry but between the PS1 and PS2 there are buttloads of JRPGs, to the point of the market becoming saturated with them. FFVII definitely kicked that off. So many people who are fans of the genre these days point to FFVII as their first game that introduced them to the genre. Whether you want to admit it or not, FFVII had a huge impact on the presence of JRPGs in the west. If it wasn't successful I bet over half of the PS1 and PS2's RPGs wouldn't have left Japan.

someone I talk to bout videogames, sent this to me, I dunno where it came from or what but it seems to be sega's plans for e3 in 2012
I am only including the 3 games that matter

Also I won't believe it til I see it at e3.


--Streets of Rage--

Platform: Wii U/PS3/360/PC

Developers: Unknown (Rumored to be headed by ex-Rocksteady Studios employees)

Release: TBD 2013

>Reboot of the entire franchise.

>Going for a Fight Club/Escape From New York feel.

>Development handled by ex-Rocksteady team members who worked on Arkham Asylums's combat engine.

>Open world environment.

>Massive online brawls with gangs.

>Old character bosses returning


--Comix Zone--

Platform: Nintendo 3DS/Vita

Developers: Griptonite Games

Release Date: Q3 2012

>Relaunch and sequel to cult hit.

>High quality artwork and impressive 3D for the 3DS version.

>Old school brawler, hard as nails.

>You can create new comic areas via the Touch Screen and trade them via QR or StreetPass/Neir

>Archie Comics to release side series with special QR Codes that act as DLC expansions of the main game.

--Phantasy Star Online 2--

Platform: PC/Wii U

Developers: Sonic Team

Release Date: Q4 2012

>Wii U port possible due to flexible online structure.

>Will have disk retail release and debut shortly after the Wii U eShop opens.

>Use the Touch Screen for abilities, text chat and the Mic/Camera for voice chat.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Sonic Adventure is only a dull disaster in the eyes of the small minority of Sonic Fans who think Sonic only works if it's a clone of Sonic 1.

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Try that Why Do You Hate/Dislike Sonic Adventures thread to see how small and fanatical that "minority" is.

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It is only after the release of the unfinished Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 that people have started to say 3D Sonic was always bad

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'People', perhaps; me, no. I detested Sonic Adventure from the outset (2000's when I got my DC). Not because it was dull dull dull with Sonic's sprite slapped on, but just because it was dull dull dull.

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Phantasy Star Online >> If you wont even try the game, you have no right to say it's bad.

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I've tried and still own it.

And sorry but between the PS1 and PS2 there are buttloads of JRPGs, to the point of the market becoming saturated with them. FFVII definitely kicked that off. So many people who are fans of the genre these days point to FFVII as their first game that introduced them to the genre. Whether you want to admit it or not, FFVII had a huge impact on the presence of JRPGs in the west. If it wasn't successful I bet over half of the PS1 and PS2's RPGs wouldn't have left Japan.[/QUOTE]They didn't.
And the market did not become saturated. Again, neither PS console has a higher proportion of RPGs, esp JRPGs, than did the SNES, which is really where most people were introduced to the JRPG. FF2/3/4/MQ, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 1/2, Brandish, Earthbound, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore (maybe not pure JRPG, but then people don't shop by exact genre), Lagoon, Illusion of Gaia, Lufia 1/2/3. Yeah there are some ARPGs in those, but I strongly doubt your "buttload" wouldn't have included some for the Playstations as well. Then go back to the NES with FF and the DWs. Nobody played those either?

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Originally Posted by EddieJ1984

--Streets of Rage--

Platform: Wii U/PS3/360/PC

Developers: Unknown (Rumored to be headed by ex-Rocksteady Studios employees)

Release: TBD 2013

>Reboot of the entire franchise.

>Going for a Fight Club/Escape From New York feel.

>Development handled by ex-Rocksteady team members who worked on Arkham Asylums's combat engine.

>Open world environment.

>Massive online brawls with gangs.

>Old character bosses returning

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I hate Sega.

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Originally Posted by EddieJ1984

--Streets of Rage--

Platform: Wii U/PS3/360/PC

Developers: Unknown (Rumored to be headed by ex-Rocksteady Studios employees)

Release: TBD 2013

>Reboot of the entire franchise.

>Going for a Fight Club/Escape From New York feel.

>Development handled by ex-Rocksteady team members who worked on Arkham Asylums's combat engine.

>Open world environment.

>Massive online brawls with gangs.

>Old character bosses returning

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GOD DAMN IT SEGA! I BEAT THOSE BOSSES IN 1992. THEY ARE DEAD! JUST LIKE GREENHILL ZONE, I SPENT 30 SECONDS THERE IN 1991, I DO NOT NEED TO GO BACK TO CONVINCE MYSELF I'M PLAYING SONIC.
http://www.motivationals.org/demotiv...ster-10866.jpg

Hey if the developers of the freeflow engine are working on a new Streets of Rage I will be all over it.

Man, I wish they would make a new Ristar

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Originally Posted by StarMist

Try that Why Do You Hate/Dislike Sonic Adventures thread to see how small and fanatical that "minority" is.

'People', perhaps; me, no. I detested Sonic Adventure from the outset (2000's when I got my DC). Not because it was dull dull dull with Sonic's sprite slapped on, but just because it was dull dull dull.

I've tried and still own it.

They didn't.
And the market did not become saturated. Again, neither PS console has a higher proportion of RPGs, esp JRPGs, than did the SNES, which is really where most people were introduced to the JRPG. FF2/3/4/MQ, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 1/2, Brandish, Earthbound, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore (maybe not pure JRPG, but then people don't shop by exact genre), Lagoon, Illusion of Gaia, Lufia 1/2/3. Yeah there are some ARPGs in those, but I strongly doubt your "buttload" wouldn't have included some for the Playstations as well. Then go back to the NES with FF and the DWs. Nobody played those either?

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I didn't say no one played those 16 bit RPGs, but far more people played the PS1 era RPGs. The SNES sold 47 million systems worldwide, the PS1 sold well over 100 million systems worldwide. That's a huge difference. Final Fantasy 7 alone sold close to 10 million copies. Can you say the same thing for any of the SNES era RPGs? And have you forgotten just what all is on the PS1 alone? On the PS1 we have the following:

Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy 2
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 5
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 9
Final Fantasy Tactics
Chrono Trigger
Chrono Cross
Dragon Warrior VII
Granida
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar 2 Eternal Blue Complete
Xenogears
Star Ocean Second Story
Legend of Dragoon
Tales of Destiny
Tales of Eternia
Suikoden
Suikoden 2
Legend of Mana
Persona
Persona 2

And there's even more where those came from, and that's only on the PS1. There's even more on the PS2. And some of what you listed doesn't make sense. There are only 2 Lufia games on the SNES if I remember correctly, and FF2 and FF4 on the SNES are the same game.

And please explain what exactly is dull about Sonic Adventure. If given the choice between Sonic Adventure or Mario 64, I'd pick Sonic Adventure any day. Mario 64 is a repetitive game that forces you to take an long time to play though it by forcing you to spam the same levels over and over again to collect stars so you can advance. That's not my idea of a fun game to play.

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Originally Posted by EddieJ1984

--Comix Zone--Platform: Nintendo 3DS/VitaDevelopers: Griptonite GamesRelease Date: Q3 2012>Relaunch and sequel to cult hit.>High quality artwork and impressive 3D for the 3DS version.>Old school brawler, hard as nails.>You can create new comic areas via the Touch Screen and trade them via QR or StreetPass/Neir>Archie Comics to release side series with special QR Codes that act as DLC expansions of the main game.

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HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO US, SEGA !!!!1

I think if Sega ever did do a new Streets of Rage, it should be like Rockstar's The Warriors; change the characters, music + story and you've pretty much got Streets of Rage in 3D.

No 2D, no Streets of Rage.

Well they're still keeping Senoc tho Hodgohig on life support by releasing a trickle of games with varying degrees of success.
The rest are either farmed out to developers who have no clue what they are doing, or being left to rot into obscurity.

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Originally Posted by Bastardcat

The rest are either farmed out to developers who have no clue what they are doing, or being left to rot into obscurity.

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Outside developers handling franchised games isn't necessarily a bad thing as it can bring either a fresh point of view to a series or, if the right developer is selected, enable the creation of a top quality nostalgic tribute. The problem is that modern Sega seems like a company that couldn't care less about quality control, and would rather just try to make a fast buck off the name by paying cheap teams a pittance to quickly churn out junk, instead of giving a talented developer the time and resources to create something great. Hopefully Sonic Generations is a sign that their attitude is changing but to me it seems that since the merger the chief defining attribute of Sega is that they rush virtually everything that has a established name. They're pretty terrible at fixing problems with post-release patches too; I guess they don't feel the need to spend any more when they already have peoples money.