Samurai Shodown (SNES vs. Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis vs. Sega Mega CD)

I think both the Mega Drive and Mega-CD versions have trade offs. Usually what's in one of them is missing on the other, and if you combine the positive aspects of both versions, then you would have the arcade except for color count and a couple of aspects missing in both like Earthquake and zoom out (add the SNES version to the mix and you would have everything, lol).

But it's true that the Mega-CD version recks inability/lazyness while the Mega Drive version seems to have more work put on it. Most of the aspects missing in the Mega Drive version and which are in the Mega-CD version, except for the redbook audio of course, could have been present with just using a larger sized cart/ROM. This can't be said otherwise though, the major issue that arise in the Mega-CD version are internal memory constraints which could have been solved using optimizations Funcom was clearly not able to do.

Still, I have always liked the Mega-CD version despite its setbacks, but the Mega Drive is the better effort out of the two. And one of the major issues of the Mega Drive version like the slowdown can be solved through overclocking, plus Pyron's color hack has fixed its drab colors up to level resembling the Mega-CD one or even better in some cases.

I think the best thing with the Mega-CD version would have been using the basis of Saurus' Mega Drive version while adding everything that was missing because of cart size (and of course the redbook audio soundtrack) or tasking the Mega-CD version to a Japanese developer (the logical thing to do back then) or a western developer which would have been better suited for fighting games, like for example the guys at Sega Interactive Development.

For me is very clear and VERY visible the diferences between Mega Drive and Sega CD....
that made the MD version the best...

Sega CD:
+ Bigger sprites
+ More Frames of animation
+ After match char art
+ No Slowdowns
= No Earthquake
- Poor backgrounds
- Poor voices samples
- Poor sounds samples
- No destrucble objects on bkg
- Kuroko is missing
- No Narration
- Have to unlock amakusa on VS mode
- Loading times


MD version is just the opposite of MCD version with a litle less bigger sprites in 24mb cartigde

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Originally Posted by Pyron

- No Earthquake

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Can't be said that's a difference between both versions. It's a minus for either of them actually.

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Originally Posted by Wesker

Can't be said that's a difference between both versions. It's a minus for either of them actually.

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Yes, i pont that cuz initialy i gonna make one side by side but i let it go... ( i corrected that there)

anyway... miss him too in sega cd version its a shame
if they keep the mega drive sprites sizes (that is big enought) they can do earthquake like big bear in FFS
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...s-big-bear.gif

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Originally Posted by Ecco

I'm curious why people can say the Sega CD version is inferior? It lacks the referee but it seems the best by far, in every other way! (Loading times are worth it.) Best backgrounds, biggest characters, nice voices etc.

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I was thinking the same thing. I get where people say the cart version was a better showcase for the hardware, but beyond that, the relatively minor shortcomings of the CD version (missing background details, worse sound effects, missing dismemberment, etc.) still come ahead of the relatively major ones in the Genesis version (entire moves missing or heavily altered, screwy collision, slowdown, missing cancels, etc.). Basically, the disc version's flaws don't affect the core gameplay while the cart version's flaws do.

I can still see the fondness for and even the preference of the Genesis version due to the above differences, but the idea that it's great while the SCD version is shit just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm just missing something because I've spent less time with the CD version, though.

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Originally Posted by Wesker

I think both the Mega Drive and Mega-CD versions have trade offs. Usually what's in one of them is missing on the other, and if you combine the positive aspects of both versions, then you would have the arcade except for color count and a couple of aspects missing in both like Earthquake and zoom out (add the SNES version to the mix and you would have everything, lol).

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That's the way I see it; they basically complement each other. I think both versions are worth playing at the very least.

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Originally Posted by Assman

Genesis version (entire moves missing or heavily altered, screwy collision, slowdown, missing cancels, etc.). Basically, the disc version's flaws don't affect the core gameplay while the cart version's flaws do.
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Must be another game i guess?
entire moves missing is true, some attacks animations is missing or changed

But...
screwy collision... Where?

missing cancels? If you talk about cut or reflect some type of magic using your sword is here and is very usefull

slowdowns.. yes... but not that much..
and you must keep in mind that is 2 giant playes on screen + kuroko + Hikiaku that pass dropping money, bombs, food
plus some wheater effects like in nakoruru stage... all that is missing in sega cd one that flickers alot with only 2 players on screens,
sorry for some slowdowns moments

and as old player and fan of SS series... no hikiaku dropping food + bombs on screens affects the gameplay too...

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Originally Posted by Pyron

For me is very clear and VERY visible the diferences between Mega Drive and Sega CD....
that made the MD version the best...

Sega CD:
+ Bigger sprites
+ More Frames of animation
+ After match char art
+ No Slowdowns
= No Earthquake
- Poor backgrounds
- Poor voices samples
- Poor sounds samples
- No destrucble objects on bkg
- Kuroko is missing
- No Narration
- Have to unlock amakusa on VS mode
- Loading times


MD version is just the opposite of MCD version with a litle less bigger sprites in 24mb cartigde

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I'm still scratching my head a bit.

I agree that SCD has:
--biggest sprites.
--most animation frames (including Haomaru's proper strong slash).
--after match art.
--no slowdown.

However I disagree about the rest.

--Backgrounds look the best on SCD as far as I know. Am I missing something here? They seem the most detailed, and colors seem best for backgrounds plus the characters.

--Voices and sound effects seem good to me... (Maybe I need to compare them more closely but they still seem good on SCD.)

No destructible objects, or referee, but these don't ruin it for me. (I think the pros outweigh these cons!)

No narration is balanced out by the larger number of voice samples (character names announced), plus the great soundtrack.

The Amakusa thing, and loading times don't bother me at all.

...

Anyway I haven't played either version for a long time, and maybe I need to, but SCD version still seems best in my eyes, by far.

Last time I played Samurai Shodown on SCD I found it very jerky. It's awesome in still frames, but it's awful in motion. Most of backgrounds are better in the genesis version, mostly because of color choices. And the floors on Nakoruru and Jubei stages are really terrible.
Lastly, Funcom managed to put even lower quality samples somehow.
If I had to choose between the two, I wouldn't have a single doubt.

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Originally Posted by Ecco

However I disagree about the rest.

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You can disagree with everything you want but that dont change the reality
open your eyes and pay attetion... cuz you dont want see the problems of the game
and the cuts is good for you... so you must hate samurai shodown !

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Originally Posted by Pyron

screwy collision... Where?

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Everywhere. The hit-boxes seem very strange to me. I'll occasionally get hit by moves where no portion of the opponent's sprite is even close to touching me yet I can also stand right next to someone, attack and go right through them with nothing happening (and not just during obvious invincibility frames). The bonus stage exemplifies this perfectly; I've almost never passed it because so many of my attacks don't even seem to register, despite the fact that everything appears to line up just fine. Throwing also seems almost random in terms of when it does and doesn't happen for me, while the AI can throw me any time it wants. I don't recall having any of these problems in the CD version.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

missing cancels? If you talk about cut or reflect some type of magic using your sword is here and is very usefull

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Cancels (or 2-in-1s) are when you cancel the animation of a regular move with a special move. They're a very common and even obligatory feature in most fighting games, and are pretty much essential for combos. I have no idea if they were in the arcade version, but I noticed them one day in the CD version and couldn't trigger them on the Genesis. I don't even know if it's possible to use them for legitimate combos since SS isn't really about that, but still, they're there.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

slowdowns.. yes... but not that much..
and you must keep in mind that is 2 giant playes on screen + kuroko + Hikiaku that pass dropping money, bombs, food
plus some wheater effects like in nakoruru stage... all that is missing in sega cd one that flickers alot with only 2 players on screens,

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I know the reasons for it, but that doesn't excuse it. Less slowdown is always preferable, right? It's not that bad most of the time, although it can suck playing as or against Nakoruru (especially as and against Nakoruru), but again, less slowdown is always preferable. I don't even remember the CD version flickering that much, but I'd still probably take flickering over slowdown in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

and as old player and fan of SS series... no hikiaku dropping food + bombs on screens affects the gameplay too...

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Sure, but that's why I said core gameplay, which I meant as the fighters and their interactions with each other; esentially just the basics of a fighting game. To be honest, I think that stuff is kind of cheap to have in a fighting game, but that's another argument altogether and not relevant here.

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Originally Posted by Ecco

--Backgrounds look the best on SCD as far as I know. Am I missing something here? They seem the most detailed, and colors seem best for backgrounds plus the characters.

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At first I thought they looked better too, but if you look at Pyron's comparisons in his thread, you can see that that's not the case across the board. There are a number of places with simplified tiles/textures/whatever on the SCD version (look at Nakoruru's background; that's a good example). Everything is zoomed in more, but there's not always more detail and, in several cases, there's less.

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Originally Posted by Ecco

--Voices and sound effects seem good to me... (Maybe I need to compare them more closely but they still seem good on SCD.)

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I'm not sure if the voice quality is any better or worse, but I have noticed that a number of the Genesis sound effects just pack a lot more punch. It does seem more satisfying to land a hit in that version; you get a nice, pronounced, meaty slash accompanied by a split-second flash on the screen to let you know some serious shit just went down. The SCD version is lacking in that regard.

Still, none of this explains why the Genesis version is amazing and the SCD version is an abomination.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

You can disagree with everything you want but that dont change the reality
open your eyes and pay attetion... cuz you dont want see the problems of the game
and the cuts is good for you... so you must hate samurai shodown !

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What? lol I love Samurai Shodown.

I'm not in denial. If anything, I need to play them both back-to-back, to compare the versions more closely, as I haven't played either in a while.

But in the comparison video and screenshots, SCD backgrounds seem to have the best color usage, at least.

If Genesis backgrounds have some more details, the SCD backgrounds also have some details not found on Genesis. For example, Charlotte's stage has a fire, Wan-Fu has rain, Hanzo has the awesome sky colors changing. So I think the background details are a toss-up.

The parts that are missing (like the referee) don't bother me, and are outweighed by bigger characters, CD soundtrack etc.

This might all really be a matter of what PARTS of the game are more important to a person, like if the referee is more important than the CD soundtrack, for example.

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Originally Posted by Assman

Everywhere. The hit-boxes seem very strange to me. I'll occasionally get hit by moves where no portion of the opponent's sprite is even close to touching me yet I can also stand right next to someone, attack and go right through them with nothing happening (and not just during obvious invincibility frames). The bonus stage exemplifies this perfectly; I've almost never passed it because so many of my attacks don't even seem to register, despite the fact that everything appears to line up just fine. Throwing also seems almost random in terms of when it does and doesn't happen for me, while the AI can throw me any time it wants. I don't recall having any of these problems in the CD version.

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Humm... very strange... i never feal that, i will try with diferent players to change the way how i play....
about bonus stage like in arcade you must use medium slash, weak slash is just if you where very close,
try that and say to me if work to you.

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Originally Posted by Assman

Cancels (or 2-in-1s) are when you cancel the animation of a regular move with a special move. They're a very common and even obligatory feature in most fighting games, and are pretty much essential for combos. I have no idea if they were in the arcade version, but I noticed them one day in the CD version and couldn't trigger them on the Genesis. I don't even know if it's possible to use them for legitimate combos since SS isn't really about that, but still, they're there.

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Samurai Shodown is not king of Fighters or Street Fighter, that type of cancel dont happen in arcade and SS1/SS2 he is not combo oriented too!

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Originally Posted by Assman

I know the reasons for it, but that doesn't excuse it. Less slowdown is always preferable, right? It's not that bad most of the time, although it can suck playing as or against Nakoruru (especially as and against Nakoruru), but again, less slowdown is always preferable. I don't even remember the CD version flickering that much, but I'd still probably take flickering over slowdown in most cases.

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Less slowdown is preferable IF they dont cut down all the game, kill all the cool mimics of arcade and alot of features from the original in change with no slowdown is not a good point to me,
in nakoruru vs nakoruru really you get alot of slowdowns, but in all other situations is fine and is dont affect the gameplay,
and i can fix that insue with overclock.... i cant do the same with sega cd version, always gonna be that trash!

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Originally Posted by Assman

Sure, but that's why I said core gameplay, which I meant as the fighters and their interactions with each other; esentially just the basics of a fighting game. To be honest, I think that stuff is kind of cheap to have in a fighting game, but that's another argument altogether and not relevant here.

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Yes you right, i dont said that you are worng...
i just say sega cd version the "core" is more close from the arcade, is the good point of this version
but the gameplay is affected too for the others reasons that you know




About the stages please.. play both games... Charlote Stage on Sega CD is the best... and you maybe can prefer haohmaru stage too...
but all the rest.. omg is so... ugly and cuted that make me cry, look ate amakusa 2nd stage... seriously that make me SAD!
is of sega cd vs mega drive what we talking about.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

Humm... very strange... i never feal that, i will try with diferent players to change the way how i play....
about bonus stage like in arcade you must use medium slash, weak slash is just if you where very close,
try that and say to me if work to you.

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When I was playing again the other night I was starting to figure that was the case with weak attacks in the bonus stage, so thanks for confirming that. The other collision issues seem kind of inconsistent, so I don't know if it's just an AI thing (which is possible given how impossibly cheap the AI likes to be in certain fighting games), but I can't really pin down certain instances. It's not a constant issue, but periodically it'll give me a WTF moment.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

Samurai Shodown is not king of Fighters or Street Fighter, that type of cancel dont happen in arcade and SS1/SS2 he is not combo oriented too!

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I know it's not meant to be combo-oriented; that's part of what I like about the game. I have almost no experience with the arcade version, so I didn't know that there weren't supposed to be cancels, but then again they weren't initially supposed to be in Street Fighter either (supposedly Capcom didn't want to fix them and assumed people would never figure them out). Still, I kinda like that they're there in the SCD version; it opens up more possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

Less slowdown is preferable IF they dont cut down all the game, kill all the cool mimics of arcade and alot of features from the original in change with no slowdown is not a good point to me,
in nakoruru vs nakoruru really you get alot of slowdowns, but in all other situations is fine and is dont affect the gameplay,
and i can fix that insue with overclock.... i cant do the same with sega cd version, always gonna be that trash!

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Fair enough; we kind of just have to agree to disagree on that one. I have a better understanding now of why some people see the CD port as shit, I just don't agree. I guess I might see things differently if I had been a big fan of the series as a kid and played both ports back in the day, but I'm only just now just starting to get into the series.

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Originally Posted by Assman

I guess I might see things differently if I had been a big fan of the series as a kid and played both ports back in the day, but I'm only just now just starting to get into the series.

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Fair enought, i really understand you and your point and some things or details is not important for everyone...
in my case dude... i really love this game and i played it ALOT until today, especially samurai 1 and 2 (the best ones)
if you understand portuguese you gonna watch my love in one review that i did about it

I think my problem with sega cd version is how it should be much better.. and that disappoint me at time...
md version you really can understand some cuts because of the size of the cartridge and etc... but you see the effort to do some good there..
What i dont feel in Sega-CD version... sadly

Pyron, you should consider adding English subtitles to your vids. I am pretty sure that the effort will yield a bigger subscriber base quite easily!