So let's talk reproduction carts

No, not the act of buying/selling them (Baloo made it clear that such a subject is taboo) but rather the actual act of owning one. Do you feel like you have something rare when you own one? Do you count it as part of your collection? Do you feel they raise, or lower, the value of your collection?

I have a few reproduction carts, only a few made by myself. My three most notable ones are Monster World IV, Starfox 2, and Seiken Densetsu 3. I definitely count all 3, as Monster World IV completes my Sega wonderboy collection, starfox 2 is rarer than most normal reproduction carts due to the circumstances surrounding the creation of said cart, and Seiken Densetsu 3 I coun't because I actually bought the Japanese game, used the real cart as a donor, and built it myself.

I have a bunch of other repros that I keep as more oddities than anything else. A copy of Kart Fighter or Ys II in english for the NES. Stuff like that.

What's the general mood of these carts? Regardless of actual rarity, they mostly go, online, for prices indicating that they are sought after - about $40 for a good genesis repro, and between $50-$60 for the average SNES repro (with Starfox 2 usually going for $100).

Thoughts or opinions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard

Do you feel like you have something rare when you own one? Do you count it as part of your collection? Do you feel they raise, or lower, the value of your collection?

---

1st ?: yes and no. For instance I have StarFox 2... an unreleased game... as a repro. It's nice to have an unreleased game/sequel, but because of the ease of acquiring it (and how "available" it is), no, I don't feel like I have something "rare" per se. But I do consider it a blessing to have

2nd ?: absolutely count it as part of my collection. although, cart only is fine. I normally go for CIB, but with repros I don't bother with "fanmade" boxes and manuals.

3rd ?: Overall, raise, in terms of quality. Without repros, I would never own Star Fox 2, or Secret of Mana 2, or an English translated version of SFC CLOCK TOWER. So I count it all as gain.

I don't consider them part of my collection. I'd also consider them worthless, but ebay says no. NES reproductions sells Earthbound for $25 plus a donor and you can turn around and sell that cart for more: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Earthbound-N...#ht_500wt_1287

I don't see myself buying another repro anytime soon.

I'm the exact opposite with mine. I want to get it as close to a real release as possible. I ordered a Monster World IV manual, for example, and took a junk Genesis game (Judge Dread) and donated it's case to the game. I also made a Starfox 2 box and I've been looking for someone who can make an SNES manual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cheaterdragon1

I don't consider them part of my collection. I'd also consider them worthless, but ebay says no. NES reproductions sells Earthbound for $25 plus a donor and you can turn around and sell that cart for more: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Earthbound-N...#ht_500wt_1287

I don't see myself buying another repro anytime soon.

---

I could see a repro of a domestically released game, or a version already in english, being worthless. Like if someone built a repro of, say, Phantasy Star IV, because they couldn't find it cheap enough... yeah, that's worthless to me.

But games never released in the form you own it in? Like Starfox 2 or an english Secret of Mana 2? That definitely not worthless to me, as the big reason I collect isn't to simply own them, but to experience the game on real hardware.

Could you expand on why you think they're worthless?

EDIT: Also, just food for thought - how many reproduction carts of games like Starfox 2 do you think there could be out there? Probably less than 1000, I'd assume. Anyone want to weigh in on that?

I don't have any repros yet, but I plan on getting some in the near future, particularly Monster World IV, Sonic Megamix, and a few others.

I've never thought of SNES repros, however I wouldn't mind getting Ys V, that is, if the translation was ever finished.

I hate repos I think its gonna be much harder to tell legit games from repos in the future

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eddiespruce

I've never thought of SNES repros, however I wouldn't mind getting Ys V, that is, if the translation was ever finished.

---

+Repped, I absolutely love the Ys series. The day the Ys IV Duo translation was released, I took my real copy of Ys IV, dumped the iso, patched it, reburned it onto a CD-R with a custom label, made a high quality jewel case for it, and played the shit out of it.

I have it sitting next to the real copy on my shelf right now in fact. It looks like a real PC Engine Duo title.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by streetsofrage

I hate repos I think its gonna be much harder to tell legit games from repos in the future

---

I've never heard of anyone actually producing copies of domestically released titles, though. Like who goes out and makes a reproduction of something like Crusader of Centy? If someone did do that, yeah, I'd think that was scummy.

But you can usually tell the repros people make because they're usually not available in that form. Like, an english copy of Monster World IV or Secret of Mana 2, or starfox 2 at all. That sort of thing.

It's an interesting line, I don't have any repros personally, but I find the value of them to be at least $30-$40 due to the work involved in producing, some of them I would think would have even more value because of the HUGE amount of time/manhours to make them work properly; Starfox 2 is a perfect example of this.

I think SNES repros have more lasting value since there are multiple levels involved normally: the mask rom, finding a proper donor cart, wiring up funky stuff to get everything going correctly. Conversely, the only thing involved in Genesis repros from what I've heard is burning the replacement EEPROM, desoldering the old one, and soldering the EEPROM on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard

I've never heard of anyone actually producing copies of domestically released titles, though. Like who goes out and makes a reproduction of something like Crusader of Centy? If someone did do that, yeah, I'd think that was scummy.

But you can usually tell the repros people make because they're usually not available in that form. Like, an english copy of Monster World IV or Secret of Mana 2, or starfox 2 at all. That sort of thing.

---

I personally expect this to be a huge issue in the future. Rare games that fetch high prices are bound to start having repros made of them just because there's always someone out there willing to make an easy buck. Every respectable repro maker I've ever talked with refuses to make copies of domestic games that have actually been released, but there's a grey area that someone WILL exploit in the future. Hell, with Earthbound on the SNES fetching $150 a cart on eBay, I'd be surprised if shady people aren't making repros of them already.

I don't mind repros, thinking of making a repro Castlevania Bloodlines, and before anyone rants, that would be a PAL Castlevania in the blue MD style box.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by streetsofrage

I hate repos I think its gonna be much harder to tell legit games from repos in the future

---

I hold that opinion as well. I personally beleive that reproduction carts are definitely making it quite difficult for a person to discern whether you are purchasing an original copy of the game versus a reproduction of the game. I will go as far to say that they have the ability of affecting the market negatively as well.

Could this be one reason "Gley Lancer" has shot up from an ebay market value of $250.00 to a whopping $700.00 today? Where once the purchase price was reachable, I dare to say that I will not be able to purchase this game anymore. Although I have no real concrete proof, I noticed the price increase coincided with the appearance of various sellers selling reproduction carts of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by streetsofrage

I hate repos I think its gonna be much harder to tell legit games from repos in the future

---

Actually that is false, because repro carts are ones that for whatever reason don't exist, otherwise It's pirating, there's a big differance between the 2, don't get them confuses with one another.

I personally would love a US cart with the fan translation of Mystic Ark, a DQ 6 cart would be awesome as well(neither game was released outside of Japan, nor in english). Also Star Fox 2 is a good example as well, since It's a unreleased game, which I wouldn't mind either.

To OP I wouldn't treat them as something worth real money collection wise, but it would still look cool on the shelf, and I could play them on the real hardwar, so in that way it would be counted as part of my playing collection.

Where did you pull that $700 figure for Gley/Grey Lancer? Just because some Japanese seller hikes the price up astronomically doesn't mean that's the going price, you can still likely get a copy for under 250. If anything, Repro prices would cause real prices to drop.

The only thing I don't like about repros is the fact that you have to sacrifice another game to make them. If people keep doing this eventually a certain game might become rare or hard to obtain. Even if they are all sports games, I'd still hate to see a time where suddenly Madden 96 on the Genesis is this rare game going for $100's on ebay simply because most of them have been turned into repros.

I think it would be more worthwhile for those of us interested in making them to design a custom PCB that could be almost universal for most Genesis games and then go in and have some company produce a bulk order of them along with some Genesis cart shells. It can obviously still be done, Pier Solar is proof of that.

Repro games 'sort of' count, but only if I have them CIB with a manual (mostly thanks to Bratwurst). Otherwise they're kind of eh. You know in the back of your mind they aren't legit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SEGA.GENESIS1989

I hold that opinion as well. I personally beleive that reproduction carts are definitely making it quite difficult for a person to discern whether you are purchasing an original copy of the game versus a reproduction of the game. I will go as far to say that they have the ability of affecting the market negatively as well.

Could this be one reason "Gley Lancer" has shot up from an ebay market value of $250.00 to a whopping $700.00 today? Where once the purchase price was reachable, I dare to say that I will not be able to purchase this game anymore. Although I have no real concrete proof, I noticed the price increase coincided with the appearance of various sellers selling reproduction carts of the game.

---

Nah, the price of Gleylancer has so far stayed fairly consistent over the years (around £100 on evilbay) However the price of PAL Wily Wars has definitely gone through the roof - they never seem to end for less than £200-300 now, which is just insane. Couldn't say whether this is entirely because of repros, but they've definitely helped the game's notoriety as an "OMG RARE!" thing. As for the Spanish seller who keeps selling repros of that overrated game for around £40, and the people who keep buying them for such an inflated price, all I'll say is "ugh".

I personally own one repro, a US-boxarted MWIV. It sits between the multicarts / weird hacks in my collection, not official and will never be the same, but still a nice enough playable thing. Would I buy anymore? Probably not - while translations etc are awesome (as are the people who take the time to do them and then share their work with the community) I find it much better to emulate these, and save my money for original releases I don't yet have. And worthy homebrew. And the occasional "grey area" Chinese/HK/TW/Russian "unofficial" cart... ;P

All this repro talk, Why not just skip all the crap and get a snes powerpak or everdrive. You gotta remember, repros are just copied roms in a cart, so really no different than downloading a rom to an sd card and playing it on your everdrive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard

Also, just food for thought - how many reproduction carts of games like Starfox 2 do you think there could be out there? Probably less than 1000, I'd assume. Anyone want to weigh in on that?

---

Well, it's all based on demand. The people who know how to make it CAN ALWAYS MAKE MORE. So whatever number it's at, it can always increase. Unlike, say, Panzer Dragoon Saga for Saturn which received a limited release. That number is set in stone forever, however many copies were released (I forget what it was, but it wasn't high)

And not to brag but I snagged SF2 for $50 iirc :) It usually goes for around 100. Dude was nice... and I got the "final" copy to boot! He made more though, I'm sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

All this repro talk, Why not just skip all the crap and get a snes powerpak or everdrive. You gotta remember, repros are just copied roms in a cart, so really no different than downloading a rom to an sd card and playing it on your everdrive.

---

+1

Only repros worth getting are the unplayable games on a flash cart (i.e. Star Fox 2)

They are not official releases, so they cannot be part of the collection. I think they can be great things to own, especially when they are done well. Some of you are familiar with Mr Mark's work which is incredible. DJ Shok's art is always gorgeous as well. And while it is awesome to be able to play games which were previously unreleased or unavailable in your area, I just can't see how they can be "part of your collection." I live in the US, so I have a Genesis NTSC collection which I'll use as an example. Any repros that I own are not part of that collection. They are supplementary, non-releases. If I had the room and the ambition to do so, I could complete my collection, and own every NTSC game that was released for the Genesis. Any repros or fan carts are not and would not be a part of that collection. That does not diminish them, they are simply supplementary to the main collection.

I wouldn't count them as part of my collection, since I only collect official Genesis titles. I don't do translations either, so that leaves several RPGs from Japan out of my future arsenal (unless I learn the language) and/or their western pseudo/repro-translations. I wouldn't even consider playing a translated ROM, I'm too much of a purist (this doesn't count official translations. We're talking repros, after all).

The only repros I'd ever consider owning (and still not placing as part of my official collection), would be the ones that entail partial (or sometimes complete) ROMs of unreleased exclusive games. And I must reiterate "exclusive". In other words, if the game was meant to be ported to the Sega CD, but got released on the Jaguar, I'd have absolutely zero interest in paying for, owning or even playing said Sega CD unreleased ROM. It's just not my thing. But if it was something crazy like an unreleased 32X game that never saw the light of day (even on PC), then I'd favor a hard copy for the 32X myself.

Repros like Alien Soldier with a Genesis facelift make absolutely no sense to me. It's like defacing a perfectly good status as a rare import. The "Genesis" repro would hold absolute no value compared to owning an actual JP MD original.

I love repros (pretty obvious if you've seen all the artwork I make for them lol). I have quite a few and am definitely planning to get more. They're games, so I consider them part of my collection. I'd eventually like to own repros of all the games that I made covers for (not counting the ones that have official releases that I just made replacement covers for)

I especially love getting repros of unreleased games. It feels cool having them, kinda like I hacked reality somehow, or got them from an alternate reality where they did get released. (I used to watch a lot of Sliders lol) Translations are cool too because I'm really not into Sega or Nintendo or whoever telling me that I can't play a game because of what part of the world I live in. They can suck it, if I want to play Battle Mania 2 in English then I will. Translations rule and I'm really glad that people make them.

Then there's also the fact of knowing that my repros were made by a devoted retro-game loving tech geek that toiled over a hot soldering iron and painstakingly assembled the cart for me, printed and carefully cut out the label and lovingly put the whole thing together that actually makes me like the repro games a little more than official releases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

All this repro talk, Why not just skip all the crap and get a snes powerpak or everdrive. You gotta remember, repros are just copied roms in a cart, so really no different than downloading a rom to an sd card and playing it on your everdrive.

---

Actually, I would feel more guilty using an everdrive, as it's about as fake as you can get. Repro makers go out of their way to make quality cartridge labels, and labels for clamshell cases, and when I actually get some repros, I will definitely consider them part of my collection.

I don't mind repros if they are either unreleased games or games never released in english, I just don't have the money to buy them since they aren't cheap.

I'm split on the issue. I like the idea of repros for games that never got localizations, or like Star Fox 2 were never really made. But what I hate is people listing them on eBay for $200 claiming they are super rare US versions. Saw a Terranigma auction and Alien Soldier auction like that fairly recently.

I wish there was a way to make Star Fox 2 carts without needing donor carts, then.. everybody could have cheap Star Fox 2 carts!
That way those fucking ebay leeches would have to find another way to make a quick buck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JRedmond3

Where did you pull that $700 figure for Gley/Grey Lancer? Just because some Japanese seller hikes the price up astronomically doesn't mean that's the going price, you can still likely get a copy for under 250. If anything, Repro prices would cause real prices to drop.

---

Really? From all the research I've done thus far, Gley lancer has been on a steady increasing in price since 2008/2009. Maybe you could direct me to the respective site that is advertising the aforementioned item.

With respect to the comment that reproduction prices would cause the price to drop, I think not. There will always be hardcore collectors that will always want the original game in it's original condition.

Heck, I would not consider myself a collector in the least but as an enthusiast of the console, I cannot see myself buying a reproduction cart anytime soon. The caveat to that rule: If the game was released in a foreign language. The benefit of a reproduction cart is that it would allow the player the benefit of playing the game in the English language.

To expand on my statement, there are some of these game collectors/enthusiasts have gone so far as to post pictures of the actual cartridge circuit board, chip, capacitors etc. Even on this forum, we have people painstakingly developing a master list of every variation of a specific game right down to the card board releases.

In my opinion, as time goes on prices will begin to steadily increase for some games. This is especially true now that we live in a truly global environment where information and purchasing power is right at our fingertips.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

The only thing I don't like about repros is the fact that you have to sacrifice another game to make them. If people keep doing this eventually a certain game might become rare or hard to obtain. Even if they are all sports games, I'd still hate to see a time where suddenly Madden 96 on the Genesis is this rare game going for $100's on ebay simply because most of them have been turned into repros.

I think it would be more worthwhile for those of us interested in making them to design a custom PCB that could be almost universal for most Genesis games and then go in and have some company produce a bulk order of them along with some Genesis cart shells. It can obviously still be done, Pier Solar is proof of that.

---

So pigs fly now. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

So pigs fly now. :D

---

I'm not saying it's true now, just saying I could see it happening if tons of people started making repros out of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

All this repro talk, Why not just skip all the crap and get a snes powerpak or everdrive. You gotta remember, repros are just copied roms in a cart, so really no different than downloading a rom to an sd card and playing it on your everdrive.

---

Wrong. I have a Megacart, playing roms on that feels "cheap"; I can't be bothered to play for long, because I know I can rub the rom off and put a new one on it. Repos are different; they look and function the same as a real cart, so the drive to play on is much greater. That, and they come with a manual + box makes it more authentic than a rom on flash cart.

Quick guys, get your Madden 96s in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Wrong. I have a Megacart, playing roms on that feels "cheap"; I can't be bothered to play for long, because I know I can rub the rom off and put a new one on it. Repos are different; they look and function the same as a real cart, so the drive to play on is much greater. That, and they come with a manual + box makes it more authentic than a rom on flash cart.

---

This, A thousand times this.

I would never get a cart only repro, that indeed defeats the point.. but a real cart+box+manual of a translated gem like Monsterworld IV, now that's better then any flashcart.

I own plenty of the carts for the genesis and nes. It looks uniform with the rest of my collection and I enjoy owning something tangible as opposed to a powerpack. Many of the repros I own are of unreleased games so it's the only real option to actually own them instead of using roms.

As far as powerpacks and roms in general, I see no reason to bother with them. In my opinion, why even collect when you can put all of the games on a cart? We do it because we like to own the games. Having a bunch of them on a flashcart ruins the experience for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samspade

As far as powerpacks and roms in general, I see no reason to bother with them.

---

Beta's, Unreleased games, demo's, homebrews, translations, tools, etc.

Also sometimes you just want to try out a game on real hardware without having to buy it.

My Neo cart is a proud member of my (enormous) Megadrive family, they all know he was not bought to replace them.

Anyone tried the Game Gear to Master System conversions sold at http://www.thenesdump.com/New%20Webs...r%20system.htm ?

I didn't think the SMS could handle the colours/detail in GG Power Strike II so I was surprised to see it there. It makes me wonder if the GG Shinobi games could be ported successfully.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Anyone tried the Game Gear to Master System conversions sold at http://www.thenesdump.com/New%20Webs...r%20system.htm ?

I didn't think the SMS could handle the colours/detail in GG Power Strike II so I was surprised to see it there. It makes me wonder if the GG Shinobi games could be ported successfully.

---

I've seen the Sonic Triple Trouble port before. They went in and manually edited the palette to accommodate the SMS.

So to follow up on my last post, I've got someone making me both an SMS Sonic Triple Trouble reproduction and an SMS Sonic Drift 2 reproduction. I traded this guy a Sega Saturn for them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34xUZHqhVls

He's going to include a box, along with his special SMS-version manual, and a poster, to make it feel like a real SMS release.

Couldn't be happier with the trade. I'm so excited. I've wanted to play Triple Trouble on my TV since the day I got it in 1994. I waited so long for a Super Game Gear equivalent, but it never came. Sonic Triple Trouble and Sonic Drift 2 are the only game gear games that I regularly played growing up that DIDN'T see an SMS port that I've since acquired. With these 2 reproduction carts, I'll finally be able to play every game gear game I grew up with on my TV.

I've been in a good mood all day because this deal was set up. I still eventually want to build a consolized game gear, but in the mean time, this is a fantastic alternative. Especially since both games will display more of the screen when played on an SMS (in the case of Triple Trouble, the rom has been hacked to move the status window to the proper location on the enlarged screen as well).

I guess my reaction to these two games kinda answers the question I asked in the OP - yes, I value these games very much, especially since they're reproductions that aren't quite as common (unlike, say, Secret of Mana 2).

I can't help but resurrect this thread as I find it an interesting subject.

I don't have any issue with reproduction carts of games that were not published / translated and therefore prevents me from owning a legitimately released copy; further because I'd rather own a cart than modify my console - I just prefer to run my system stock. I also don't feel like I would appreciate the game if I had it on flash, having it amongst a compiled list of 700+ other games makes it seem like a cheap designation. Owning a physical copy issues a sense of novelty for me; More so if a clamshell case and manual are used to give the game a more complete or authentic feel.

That said, I certainly consider a reproduction part of my library given the efforts to make the game well presented and seemingly official, but ultimately by no means considerably valuable.

I am fine with things that never saw light of day like other carts.

This business is pretty lucrative though...