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Originally Posted by
gamevet
Not at all. Just look at how slow the surrounding areas pass you by. They all seemed to flow like Kart games.
I just don't think that's true, and are you just saying this about Top Gear Rally 1, or about N64 racing games in general? Because for the latter case it's obviously completely false.
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Why not, if the N64 was a graphical powerhouse, the game should have looked better on the console.
Unless they completely redid the graphics, there's not much they could have done with car models as awful looking as NFS1's. And the very low-poly environments WOULD be noticeable as well.
And anyway, NFS4 (High Stakes) for the PC is a far better game than NFS1 is, anyway... why do you only care about the first one?
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What are you talking about?
Look at my N64 reviews thread, there are lots of third party N64 exclusive, or PC/N64 or Arcade/N64, exclusive games listed there. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
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You see what you did there, right?
Even with the expansion cart, Rogue Squadron on the N64 had to use fog on the planet levels to cover up pop-up. It was also extremly had to see the pixelated enemies of in the distance. RS2 was an improvement in every way over the previous title. You'd have to have you head pretty far up the N64's proverbial ass, not to see it.
Have you played BfN? It's one of the N64's best looking games, and really shows Factor 5 pushing the hardware to the limit. It's amazing how much better it looks than the N64 version of Rogue Squadron. They packed an incredible amount of voice acting onto that cart, too. Every level has a hidden, voiced developer commentary track! :lol:
As for Rogue Squadron though, it's good on the N64, but I first played that one on the PC, where it does look better. In comparison to that, or to BfN for the N64, the N64 version of RS1 takes some getting used to... still, for 1998 it's a pretty good looking N64 game, and it does look good.
As for the gameplay, RS1 and BfN both play great. Sure, the GC games have a greater draw distance, more enemies on screen, etc, but overall, I don't think that they're better games, no. I was a big fan of all four games, back in 1999-2003 when they were being released, and played all four titles, but I've never thought that the GC games blew away the first two, gameplay-wise. They blow them away graphically, sure, but gameplay? Eh... it's just somewhat different, more so than it is better.
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No, because you know your list is short. You had to put crappy games like War Gods and Dark Rift on their just to pad it. Pilot Wings 64 is a great game, but it's nowhere near the adult gamer category.
As Thenewguy showed with his list in the next post, that list was short mostly because I forgot about a bunch of stuff. :) Also, I thought the point was to list mature games, not just the best mature games. And even though those two games are indeed pretty bad, both were moderately successful at the time, so regardless of quality people did play them, and I'm sure some at the time convinced themselves that they were good.
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Bullshit. My favorite console was the Saturn, but I'm not letting some kind of brand loyalty keep me from playing excellent games when I see them.
Sure, but would you say the Playstation is a better console than the Saturn, or something, just because it has more games? That's really the issue here... I don't think a system is more worth owning just because it has more games. It depends on what kinds of games the person wants to play.
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Which pretty much cements my point. The Xbox replaced the Saturn/Dreamcast userbase and Nintendo's console market has been shrinking generation to generation. Nintendo knew they couldn't compete head to head for the older gaming demographic, so they played it safe with the family friendly Wii console. The first year the console really wasn't servicing fans of Nintendo's past titles, which was met with outcry's by gamers on message boards.
So I point out how you're wrong, and somehow that cements your point? That's some messed up logic for sure. As I said, the N64 in fact had a significant teenage and college audience. It was successful in North America with that market. The Playstation was even more successful, sure, but the N64 WAS successful with that group as well. That changed the next generation thanks to the Xbox, but things were different earlier.
Also, that was a new market for Nintendo -- that audience wasn't one any console manufacturer was really going after with the SNES/Genesis, for the most part... they did start trying in the mid '90s, though. Remember stuff like the "Play it Loud" campaign? That was aimed at teens as well as kids, for sure. Same with the N64's initial marketing and advertising. They were going for a broader console gamer audience, not just children, an they succeeded.
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Originally Posted by
Thenewguy
and by the time that came out there were better games, Wipeout 2097 came out, what? 6 months after Saturn Wipeout?
I'm not going to go into the comparison, I don't have the experience with all the versions, and all the regions of all the versions. Wipeout games were all changed for their US version according to interviews I've read, with Psygnosis employees essentially saying that they'd found Americans to have lower frustration thresholds, and lower inclination to persevere, so after the 1st game on Playstation, all subsequent games were made easier for the US market, though I don't know if Saturn Wipeout would count (it was later, but the 1st I've heard was with XL being made easier).
Of course there are other considerations as well though, apparently US Playstation Wipeout wasn't optimised at all, whilst its possible that US Saturn Wipeout might have been (that's just conjecture).
US Playstation Wipeout has better graphics than US Saturn Wipeout, but thanks to that gameplay fix the Saturn game's far more playable. I've never even been able to win the first circuit in the Playstation game...
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Turning around what you said earlier -
I had an N64, and I actually bought and played games for it, by 1998 Sega Rally felt like a short (albeit exciting) snack, because I knew better, and because I was used to games with real single player modes :D.
Playstation owners would feel the same, if not moreso, as their racing games were often more in-depth than N64 ones where it came to realism, and content.
Like I said before, I'm not even saying Top Gear Rally is better, I like Sega Rally more anyway, but the comparison is not silly at all, in its favour Top Gear Rally has a helluva lot more to it than Sega Rally, and you can sit down and play through it for long periods of time feeling like you're making progress.
Yeah, I know what you mean here, Sega Rally's great, but so, SO short...
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No, Need For Speed was already looking crusty even before the N64 existed, if the game had been released during the 1st year then it would've done well, but any later than that and it would've been ripped to pieces.
Yeah, and deservedly so. Look at the reception the late N64 port of V-Rally 1 got, it got poor reviews mostly because of how dated it was... which it was, by 1999.
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Now any of the games mentioned by Black Falcon on the other hand, those would've been very nice even right up till the end, also I quite like Hot Pursuit, maybe not a phenominal game but it was fun, and would definitely still have placed very respectably amongst N64 games IMO.
High Stakes is the best classic NFS game, in my opinion. PC version of course. That was a pretty good game... I did like all of the other classic (pre-Underground) NFS PC games too, but that one was the top one.
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I think if you asked Playstation owners about the best racers on the system you'd get next to no one bring up the original Need For Speed.
This is probably true, though NFS1 does have a somewhat devoted following. I guess it's because it's a little more simmish than the series became from the second game on? But no, the PC version of Porsche Unleashed is the most simmish NFS game, I think, but that doesn't get quite as much praise... maybe those NFS1 fans need to try PC Porsche Unleashed (I've heard the PS1 version's nothing like it.).
I'm guessing the most popular PS1 racing game would probably be Gran Turismo 1 or 2, which I've never cared about at all.
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In regards to the whole "adult" thing, you guys are just being silly, and like Black Falcon I think this is mainly due to a lack of knowledge with the N64's game library.
Alot of this depends on what you mean by "adult" but the N64s library had a distinct violent, dark bent which went hand in hand with the "kiddie" games.
Shadowman for instance was a very dark game, the Quake games had you blowing people into pieces, the Turok games had you firing drills into peoples head which sprayed their brains everywhere, there was the ever present Mortal Kombat with its 4th edition and gore intact, guards begging for mercy in Perfect Dark, Duke 64 may have been cut, but Zero Hour had its strippers and innuendos, Hybrid Heaven wasn't exactly kiddie "man put some clothes on will ya!", there were the plethora of shooters like Vigilante 8, Battletanx, Rainbow Six, Sin & Punishment, TWINE, Operation Winback, Goldeneye, Body Harvest, it had Resident Evil 2. There were the sims like 1080, Excite Bike 64, and World Driver Championship, ports of games like the Tony Hawks series, and Nuclear Strike, as well as loads of sports series' (the Allstar Baseball series, the Courtside series, the Quarterback Club series), and that's not even bringing up Conker, which I know you think of as nothing but puerile, but of which there was also a lot of dark humour (the suicide beach run from Saving Private Ryan for instance)
Good calls on mentioning a bunch of more "adult" N64 games I didn't mention. There certainly are more of them than I listed, and yeah, stuff like Rainbow Six, Nuclear Strike, and the various Tony Hawk and sports games certainly should be mentioned. I'm sure there were plenty of N64 owners who had, say, Goldeneye, several sports games (Madden, All-Star Baseball, what have you), maybe Mario 64 and OoT, Tony Hawk, and such, as most of their library...
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Either way, even if you still think Gamecube had more of an adult tone, the idea that the N64 started the whole "kiddie" image is patently false, N64 was the start of Nintendo going more adult if anything else, polarising to two extremes, and I'd say Gamecube went back to being more of a happy medium (Nintendo went totally "family friendly" with Windwaker for instance).
This is absolutely true.
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Originally Posted by
j_factor
Wind Waker felt like it had more adult-oriented gameplay, to me. Young children probably lack the patience for sailing around, and the game incorporated some stealth. That element was widely seen as a gimmick in the wake of popular stealth games. I don't recall any child-oriented stealth games.
A little bit of blood isn't a big deal, and there's more to a game being "adult" or not than having blood and gore.
The graphics are what most people pay attention to first, and Wind Waker has very childish graphics. You're right, it has plenty of depth under that, but the first impression certainly is not of an adult game.
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If you want a Western-developed PC RPG that plays like a JRPG, yes.
It's a decent game. Not the greatest, but it's okay.
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Originally Posted by
Thenewguy
Which is all irrelevant, the point is whether or not Wind Waker was family friendly, and how much so in comparison to the Ocarina of Time, I don't see why we should be comparing to the censored version, heck you could argue the censored version was still more violent than Windwaker anyway, which had no blood (green or otherwise), and a "mythical" style defeat for Gannon.
If anything it shows that up until 1999, with the N64 Nintendo were willing to try a slightly more adult tone, but after that point being that they decided to censor the game thereafter, they'd come to the decision that what they'd done was unsuitable for their "family friendly" audience.
Hmm, perhaps that's right... like, Nintendo didn't advertise or mention Conker in Nintendo Power, in 2001, to try to stick with the "family friendly" thing, but back in the mid '90s they had a somewhat different tone I believe.
