Easy SNES/SFC YUV component video!

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Originally Posted by Guntz

I dunno about that... S-Video shares pretty much the same clarity as component, the only difference is color definition.

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Not on my TV, it doesn't. S-Video not only has inferior color definition, it's also blurrier than Component. I won't accept S-Video anymore.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

For purists though it seems, only the VA4 of the Model 2s is any good. :?

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No. The VA4 Genesis Model 2 has a YM3438. Like with S-Video and Composite, I will not accept a Genesis with a YM3438. It MUST have a YM2612, it's the chip the Genesis had when it was first released. If the YM3438 sounded the same like the YM2612, I wouldn't care, but it doesn't, so any Genesis I have with a YM3438 sees very little use.

To really get the best Genesis Model 2, you have to take a VA2 or VA2.3, replace some resistors, relocate another, and replace a capacitor. Those are the only Genesis Model 2s I recommend now to those who can solder or know someone who can solder. Out of the box, yes, a VA4 Genesis Model 2 is best, but overall, a VA2/VA2.3 Genesis Model 2 with mods is what I consider as the best Genesis Model 2.

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Originally Posted by Ace

Not on my TV, it doesn't. S-Video not only has inferior color definition, it's also blurrier than Component. I won't accept S-Video anymore.

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My TVs and capture devices must be different then, because S-Video looks very crisp for me, no matter the console. My Supergun has a no-frills NTSC encoder and while it's composite is awful, the S-Video is emulator quality. The colors are very precise and the clarity is crystal clear.

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No. The VA4 Genesis Model 2 has a YM3438. Like with S-Video and Composite, I will not accept a Genesis with a YM3438. It MUST have a YM2612, it's the chip the Genesis had when it was first released. If the YM3438 sounded the same like the YM2612, I wouldn't care, but it doesn't, so any Genesis I have with a YM3438 sees very little use.

To really get the best Genesis Model 2, you have to take a VA2 or VA2.3, replace some resistors, relocate another, and replace a capacitor. Those are the only Genesis Model 2s I recommend now to those who can solder or know someone who can solder. Out of the box, yes, a VA4 Genesis Model 2 is best, but overall, a VA2/VA2.3 Genesis Model 2 with mods is what I consider as the best Genesis Model 2.

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When I meant to purists, I meant no mods. I find purists tend to do very little to their systems, instead they turn to RGB, a high end sound component and maybe a re-capping.

By the way, can you explain why the YM3438 is so different? Or is this another case of the difference being negligible to the common person, but huge to an audiophile? (e.g. KA2195D video)

Oh okay so ace was messing up and the chips aren't that fragile, good to know. If someone sends me a ba6592 and all the needed parts I have the necessary sop to dip adapter and I'll happily build any circuit desired. I even have a component video capture device. I'll do it all for free if someone is willing to mail me the encoder and the necessary parts to make the circuit.

If you're going to test solder things, I'd recommend soldering thin cables to the pins directly, then solder components to the cables.
AWG30 works fine for that.
I did that on my 2075s and allows me to make circuit revisions without ever touching the chip again.

Or you could use a SOP to DIP adapter and solder wires to the DIP holes. That way the chip is secured onto a PCB AND you have the benefit of the wires.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

By the way, can you explain why the YM3438 is so different? Or is this another case of the difference being negligible to the common person, but huge to an audiophile? (e.g. KA2195D video)

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Yamaha changed the DAC in the YM3438. This results in some minor to major volume level differences that are immediately apparent. An example of this that I always bring up is After Burner II. Listen to that game on a console with a YM2612, then listen to it on a console with a YM3438. You'll notice a massive difference in the volume level of the background notes; on a YM2612, the background notes are very loud, but on a YM3438, they're almost inaudible, which makes the music very bland.

I've also noticed a slight difference in the volume levels of Thunder Force II MD's lead notes on certain songs. On a YM2612, the lead notes and percussion are at equal volume, but on a YM3438, the lead notes are slightly quieter than the percussion.

Then, there's the big difference in volume levels of fadeins and fadeouts, which is considerably higher on the YM2612 than the YM3438. Some games even have prolonged notes on the YM2612 due to these volume level differences (Bio-Hazard Battle and Virtua Racing come to mind).

With so many audible differences between the YM2612 and YM3438, I cannot play any game on a Genesis (or Geniclone, for that matter) with a YM3438 for an extended period of time. I need to play Genesis games on a pre-VA7 Genesis Model 1 or a modified VA2/VA2.3 Genesis Model 2.

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Originally Posted by Drakon

Oh okay so ace was messing up and the chips aren't that fragile, good to know.

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Oh, trust me Drakon, surface-mount ROHM chips are VERY fragile. You CANNOT screw up anything on these, or they will fail on you. The first one I got, which was from a dead Super NES, would no longer output Luminance (and I broke the VCC pin), but the second one, which was from another dead Super NES, would not hold the red at all. The third chip I got had a bent B-Y pin, and sure enough, the B-Y was there for the first 15 minutes, then never worked again. Now, this one lasted a little over one month; if I wouldn't have decided to tweak the RGB inputs like Chessage suggested, I wouldn't have had the chip's Luminance completely fail on me.

I'm now gonna buy some ROHM BA7230 encoders and test those out. They should be easier to solder to as they're SZIP chips much like the RAM (VRAM?) chips found in every Genesis Model 1 and the VA0 Genesis Model 2.

For those who are interested and don't mind buying things from UTSource.net, they have the BA7230 for $2 each, meaning you'll have to buy 5 of them to meet their $10 minimum order. Let's see if we can get something good out of an encoder that's easier to solder to.

Some pics of my process of assembling the BA6592:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...view=slideshow

By the by, Ace, I'm all for making things simpler. I'm looking at the chip now.

Excellent pictures there, nice clean soldering jobs, no hotglue from what I see either. :) The panel mount jacks on that Neo Geo make me feel ill though, I'd never have the balls to do something like that.

Yeah normally I don't use hotglue with the sop to dip adapter either. But ace made it sound like it would break even with an adapter.

As long as you handle the chip carefully, if you solder it to a DIP adapter, you shouldn't have problems, but it's enough that you bend one pin EVEN JUST A LITTLE and you will have a ton of problems. Problem is: all of the DIP adapters I got must have been of REALLY shitty quality as I bought 4 of them, 3 for some surface-mounted dual op-amps and one for the BA6592F, guess what? EVERY SINGLE ADAPTER was bad. The adapters for the op-amps would have varying problems (uneven volume levels on each op-amp, distortion, absolutely nothing from the chip) and I had problems with the BA6592F as well (some of the video signals wanted to fail as I saw flickering horizontal lines on the TV that were either white or red). As such, I decided to directly solder to the chip.

Wow that's odd. I've never had trouble with cxa2075 chips using a sop to dip adapter.

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Originally Posted by Ace

If I wouldn't have gone and attempted to tweak the RGB inputs as per what Chessage mentioned...

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Originally Posted by Ace

... if I wouldn't have decided to tweak the RGB inputs like Chessage suggested...

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You'd have overly dark colors and minor sync issues. Get out your multimeter and check the voltage levels of each input and output line.

The encoder is BROKEN, Chessage. How do you expect me to be able to check anything with a broken encoder (and I don't have any replacement encoders, so don't tell me to just swap encoder)?

You can still check the input voltage on the RGB signals, you can do that without an encoder. We suggest doing this because the RGB might have a bit too much voltage, which would slowly kill the chip over time (or quickly, depends on the voltage and the quality of the chip).

FWIW, RGB levels from the Genesis I was using as a test machine averaged around the 3-4 volt range IIRC.