So, has anyone tried the digital audio out mod for the SNES? If one did that, along with the component out, that would make for one hell of a 16-bit console.
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So, has anyone tried the digital audio out mod for the SNES? If one did that, along with the component out, that would make for one hell of a 16-bit console.
I'm not sure I understand, so you can't just buy the GameCube component cables, stick them into an SNES AV out and get component video out of them? I was under the impression that the AV port had all the data on the pinouts that when combined with encoder in the cables gives you the component signal, is this not the case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
The Gamecube component cables use a different AV port than the Standard Nintendo Multi-AV Out. The Component cables use the port labeled "Digital AV Out":
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eCube_rear.jpg
Even if the GameCube component cable did fit SNES, you wouldn't get any sound. Nintendo didn't release a cable to use the digital output's audio in any way. Making that entire part of the data officially unused.Quote:
Originally Posted by xelement5x
In all seriousness they flopped bad using so little of GameCube's potential. Look how few online games came out.
:(
I don't have the right model.
What is this optical audio mod you speak of? Got any sources? I don't have any equipment that takes optical audio, but I'm still interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastcallhall
http://www.alpha-ii.com/Info/snes-spdif.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
It's a bit old, but the tech should still hold true.
Thanks for elaborating, enjoy the rep :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
I had always thought it just used the standard AV (SNES/N64) out, I didn't know that it required a special digital connection.
The analog AV out does output for S-video though, right?
Yes, but not RGB sadly. Strangely enough the PAL GameCube has RGB but not S-video.Quote:
Originally Posted by xelement5x
That sucks... I wonder if mine does... would anyone be willing to do these mods if it were the right model? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lastcallhall
Any idea how straight component would compare to SCART >>> component?
Thanks. I can't make sense of that table though. Perhaps I'll perform this mod if ever I upgrade to a digital audio sound system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastcallhall
I could, but I have no component RCA jacks, so I guess I can't really do it then...Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterfaller
It depends entirely on the quality of the SCART to component converting box, which can vary between different makes and models. For what it's worth, the BA6592F offers excellent quality.Quote:
Any idea how straight component would compare to SCART >>> component?
Here's a question. I noticed that the chip takes raw RGB and "clamps" it (not entirely sure what this means), and then converts it to component to output. I've noticed the encoders on other systems (CXA1645, etc.) do this as well and that's what you get for the RGB output on those systems. What would happen if you sent this chip an already clamped RGB signal? Would the quality of the output be significantly worse, or would it not work at all?
I ask because you might be able to just get away with a custom cable that has that chip installed in it to do the conversion for you similar to what the Gamecube Component cables do. That way you wouldn't have to do any internal modding to your system, just use a different cable.
Raw or clamped RGB most likely wouldn't make any difference. Only possible change might be a bit of added amplification for the NTSC encoder's RGB output.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
That would be virtually impossible if you're using something like a CXA1645 or CXA2075. Their application circuits have too many components to just fit in a cable. It'd be much easier to put all that in a box which has a Nintendo Multi-AV cable and standard jacks mounted on the box.Quote:
I ask because you might be able to just get away with a custom cable that has that chip installed in it to do the conversion for you similar to what the Gamecube Component cables do. That way you wouldn't have to do any internal modding to your system, just use a different cable.
What I've done is created a circuit from a CXA1645 and stuck it in a project box, and used a 9-pin jack on one end to feed the signal from a Genesis 2/32x/CDX/Genesis 3) and routes it to the opposite side where I have a s-video jack and audio outs. Such a box could probably be made for the above in the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Just to be sure we're on the same page here, what I was thinking was for other systems. So if you had a Sega Genesis for instance, if you took the RGB signal from the AV Out Port and then fed that into a BA6592F, would that be enough to get Component out? If so you could possibly just make a custom cable. If it wasn't enough, what additional components would you need?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastcallhall
It's never that simple. It'll be much like any other NTSC encoder, it'll have an application circuit requiring various components. The Japanese datasheet is pretty much impossible to read but it does have an app circuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Besides, one might as well just put the BA6592F inside a plastic project box and then mount composite/S-video/component jacks on the panels.
Damn, I was looking forward to seeing your work. I'll have to see if one of my parts systems is the right model, although it might be a while before I get around to it.
For you guys that have done it, does the SNES still exhibit the vertical line problem that is prevalent in S-Video and higher video sources?
Yes, that weird vertical bar in the middle of the screen is still there. For all we know it could just be inherent to the SNES hardware, much like the N64's bilinear filtering which doesn't occur in modern emulators.
I should probably mention this though. Because I don't have audio RCA jacks implemented on my system yet, I still use a mutli-AV cable for sound. With just component video running, the picture looks fine, has the vertical bar on a black screen and honestly it looks very slightly pale. When I have audio connected via the mutli-AV port, the picture gains a very slight green tint and from what I see, that vertical bar isn't visible anymore. However, black screens have a slight green tint as well. Not really sure what's going on here... the tinting here is extremely slight, it's only noticeable when actively connecting/disconnecting the mutli-AV port.
I use s-video for my SNES and there's no vertical line issue that I can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
It's not exactly a line. What GohanX speaks of is a darker-than-the-rest-of-the-screen vertical band in the middle of the screen. I notice it a lot in Star Fox and with RF video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastcallhall
I'll have to look. FWIW, BTW, the SNES outputs a gorgeous s-video signal on my RPTV. I'm debating trying to find a older console (probably a yellowing one since it was the earlier models that had that issue - my SNES is a pristine shade of off white), or if I should bite the bullet and build my RGB to composite encoder for all my systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
For the record, that page describing the component mod is incorrect on motherboard age. My suspicion was correct, the SNES revision with that S-ENC encoder is a later revision which consolidates the mainboard considerably. That SPDIF guide you linked even points that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastcallhall
My compatible SNES was never disassembled, all the screws had that virgin snap. The top half is yellowed while the underside isn't. There isn't an FCC ID sticker either, it's just molded plastic. Hope that helps narrow down the possible suspects.
What's your S/N on there? Maybe I can narrow down the range that way.
Serial:
UN21195235
Awesome thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Funny. I should mention that my compatible SNES was yellowed on the bottom, but the top was fine.
I swapped shells with my later-revision one, which was entirely non-yellowed.
I think it's a safe bet that one with a yellowy shell is likely to be compatible.
What?! Too good to be true! I've got like 5 SNESs in the closet. If none of them are the right model, so help me, I will rage.
Did your compatible SNES have "virgin" security screws? They sometimes require quite a bit of force to snap out of their screw posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibin
On SNES's I always use one of those T shaped screwdrivers with the Gamebit, it allows a good amount of force to be applied to the screw without risking stripping the head of the screw.
I still haven't gotten around to checking my spare SNES to see if it's compatible for this mod. Taking care of a baby takes a lot of your time!
A safer method than a cordless drill, is to just use a pair of pliers with the hex-ended security bit to get the screw out of that "glued in place" phase. Be sure to push down on the security bit so it doesn't lift up and slip. I also recommend screwing/unscrewing each of the SNES's case screws so they aren't so ridiculously tight.
Hah, I just decided to open up my parts SNES's, one of which was a virgin with a bad cart slot, and I couldn't find my T screwdriver. What a pain in the ass.
Unfortunately, none of my parts systems have the correct video chip, and I'm not touching my Super Famicom since it is still in like new condition.
At least I fixed the cart slot on the new SNES :D
Just picked up a CIB SNES for a little more than I wanted to pay for it but it had a S/N of UN234633920 so hopefully I'll get lucky.
Guys, I need help with this. I got Component video working on my launch-model Super NES (it uses an actual BA6592F rather than the S-ENC encoder), but the video looks horrible! No matter what I do, the best I get is very dark video with almost non-existent color. What the hell? I don't get it. If I hook up everything straight to my TV, the picture is bright and the colors are almost non-existent, but when I put a 75ohm resistor on Luminance and 470ohm resistors on B-Y and R-Y, I get a dark picture with very dull colors. I get the same result on two different TVs.
EDIT: Oh wow, what a bunch of shit! I pulled out my spare Super NES and found the SNS-CPU-GPM-01 motherboard with the S-ENC encoder rather the actual BA6592F, and it worked first try. I needed a 75ohm resistor on Luminance because the picture was way too bright, but hell, it works. I don't get it: it works on the S-ENC, but it doesn't work correctly on the actual BA6592F. Maybe an amp is required on the actual BA6592F? I'm gonna look for some transistors and a new 7805 as I accidentally blew the regulator on my SHVC-CPU-01 Super NES (this one has the BA6592F encoder). One thing's for sure: the SHVC-CPU-01 Super NES requires an amp on Luminance, otherwise the video is EXTREMELY dark. It's possible R-Y and B-Y need an amp as well.
EDIT 2: I was right. You need an amp for the real BA6592F. With no amp on the B-Y and R-Y outputs, you won't get any color. You also shouldn't take Luminance straight from the encoder, but rather pin 7 of the multi-A/V out as it too needs an amp which is already present on the motherboard.
So I got my SNES in yesterday and it's the right model - I'll wire it up tomorrow if I have time and see how it compares to s-video. I'm still waiting on a part to add an optical audio out, but once I get that in, I'll be testing that baby out like there's no tomorrow.
*excited*
So does this mean older SNES revisions are Component-compatible too? An amp circuit isn't the worst thing in the world...
I haven't bothered to do another Mouser order, so I still don't have component RCA jacks... Eventually I'll get around to it, not that anyone cares. I wouldn't mind trying out that optical audio circuit either, I eventually figured out what that table of connections means... I think. You wire a bunch of IC pins to ground or voltage right? I'd just use a black RCA jack for that, it seems standard fibre optic ports in panel-mount are non-existent...
Of course they can output Component; they have the actual BA6592F encoder. Seems Nintendo changed something in the S-ENC encoder to eliminate the need for an amp as I noticed when I tapped Luminance straight off the encoder, the video was a hell of a lot brighter off of the S-ENC than the BA6592F.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
On that note, when did Nintendo introduce the S-RGB encoder? I doubt it has Component, but with this, we may be able to narrow down which models of the Super NES are able to output Component video.
I'm not entirely impressed with the Super NES' Component video. The colors are very vibrant, but the picture is unusually soft. It's not as sharp as I would have expected it to be. Then again, I wasn't too impressed with the Super NES' RGB, either, as it's dark and doesn't look as good as other consoles with RGB (with the exception of my Nintendo 64 which has very poor RGB - the colors are good, but DAMN is the video dark). I'm gonna compare S-Video and Component quality on the Super NES later today. One thing's for sure: through Component, the video has no yellow tint like it does in Composite and S-Video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastcallhall
Yeah, that sounds like my experience using the SNES through a RGB/Component transcoder. It looks good, but it's pretty soft. I compared LttP on Wii Virtual Console to LttP on my RGB modded SNES Mini and the Wii was quite a bit sharper.
I've always wondered, what exactly is the point of SNES digital audio? Honest question, I personally haven't found a huge difference in audio quality in other items that output optical audio in stereo such as the PS2 and just using high quality RCA cables.
I asked villahed94 (since he knows a bunch of audio stuff) and he said the CS8405A-CS is an ADC chip... Meaning the audio being tapped isn't digital, so yeah there's going to be no noticeable improvement with S/PDIF over RCA. But at least the SNES becomes compatible with modern sound equipment though!
As for the soft component thing, I never noticed it looked soft. I thought the Component video looked amazing, what a difference in color quality over S-Video, which I've always noticed has a distinct lack of color fidelity. Both connections have a crystal clear picture though.
So when will someone design an amp circuit for the older BA6592F?
IT WORKS!!! Component video on a launch-model Super NES works!!!
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/654...chmodel.th.jpg
(YUV is how my TV labels Component video - I specifically showed this so that you know you're seeing the Super NES through Component and not Composite or S-Video. Also, my TV is quite bright, so the picture will appear faded)
Much to my surprise, all you need to amplify B-Y and R-Y are 2 NPN transistors and 2 1Kohm resistors. The entire mod procedure is as follows:
1) Wire Luminance using pin 7 of the multi-A/V out (the picture will be very dark otherwise) and solder a 66ohm resistor between Luminance and your RCA jack or whatever else you're using to output Component on your console
2) Take a transistor and resistor, and wire them as follows: B-Y (BA6592F pin 24) to Base, VCC to Collector, and your RCA jack or whatever else you're using for your Component mod to Emitter with the resistor in parallel to Ground
3) Repeat step 2 for R-Y (BA6592F pin 1)
The picture is gorgeous and looks even better than what I would get through RGB on this particular Super NES, which is quite dark and the colors aren't that great, either.
I will point out this: the colors seem a little cooler than they are through Composite or S-Video. Through Composite and S-Video, the Super NES has very warm colors and a yellow tint, but through Component, there's more variation in color saturation due to the cooler colors and there's no yellow tint. Still, it looks better than either Composite or S-Video. Makes me think I'm using a Super NES emulator rather than original hardware (much like the Genesis does when I use it through RGB).
If anyone else has a launch-model Super NES or any other Super NES with the BA6592F encoder, give this a shot and tell me if it works for you. It's working beautifully for me.
Nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Interesting... the problem isn't a lack of voltage, but a lack of current - common collector transistor circuits amplify current, not voltage. So the chip can't source enough current on its outputs to drive most TVs.Quote:
2) Take a transistor and resistor, and wire them as follows: B-Y (BA6592F pin 24) to Base, VCC to Collector, and your RCA jack or whatever else you're using for your Component mod to Emitter with the resistor in parallel to Ground
Very nice, concise mod instructions. I think most folks should be able to handle this. :)