Easy SNES/SFC YUV component video!

Wow. I am literally in shock at the BA6592F. Forget just getting Component out of the Super NES, I've figured out how to get Component video out of ANYTHING with RGB (clamped RGB) using the BA6592F (gotta give a shoutout to TmEE for helping me with some problems I had with the circuit)! The picture quality is absolutely stunning; some systems look like what I would get out of my Wii if I played a game through the Virtual Console and have the console hooked up to my CRT TV using Component. Whereas the Super NES has blurry Component through this encoder, other consoles such as the Genesis and the PC Engine (provided it's RGB-modded, of course) have EXTREMELY sharp video. Once again, the colors are quite cool, so some of the less saturated colors appear a little dull, but the video quality surpasses anything you could get out of Composite or S-Video. And to all Genesis owners looking to get Component out of your console, you're gonna love this: there are almost ZERO vertical lines, and if there are lines, they're very faint and can be ignored.

I will now put together a schematic of my converter and show you my modified VA3 Genesis Model 1 and RGB-modded PC Engine Duo-R running in Component on my TV.

This is good news, indeed. Can't wait to see the results and the schematic. Good job!

You don't have to wait much longer. The schematic's done, and I've got some pictures of the circuit and the end result for you.

First, the circuit itself (VERY crudely built and I also damaged the encoder, but it works. No big loss with the broken pin, though, as it turned out to be an unnecessary signal when I thought it was the Sync input. I'm gonna stuff this in a project box soon):

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4...onentco.th.jpg

And now, some of the results. First, region-modded and S-Video-modded VA3 Genesis Model 1:

Thunder Force II MD:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9...through.th.jpg

After Burner II:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2...oughcom.th.jpg

After Burner (since I don't have an RGB cable for my Master System, I decided to show this game running on the Genesis so you can see just how vibrant the colors are):

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9...ghcompo.th.jpg

And now, my RGB-modded PC Engine Duo-R:

R-Type:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/9...mponent.th.jpg

After Burner II:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3...ngineth.th.jpg

Gradius II:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6...compone.th.jpg

Lastly, the schematic:

Attachment 5000

The parts count is as follows:

-1Kohm resistor x8
-147ohm resistor x1
-33ohm resistor x2
-10uF electrolytic capacitor x1
-0.047uF ceramic capacitor x1
-1uF electrolytic capacitor x3
-C945 or other equivalent NPN transistor x3
-RCA jacks x3 (minimum for your Luminance, R-Y and B-Y outputs - you can have up to 7, 4 for RGB + Sync, 3 for Component)
-DB9, DB15 or SCART connector x1 (if you're gonna use one of these rather than separate RCA jacks for RGB and Sync)

:shock:

I love you.

All hail Ace, for he is our god!

On your Duo, is your RGB amped before going into the encoder, or are you pulling the raw RGB?

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Originally Posted by GohanX

All hail Ace, for he is our god!

On your Duo, is your RGB amped before going into the encoder, or are you pulling the raw RGB?

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:D

Thanks!

As for the the RGB out of the PC Engine Duo-R, it's amplified before being output from the console.

On another note, I've decided to build another circuit for use inside the project box I mentioned. I have another BA6592F which I'm going to solder onto a DIP adapter, then solder all the other components to. I will show you the finished product tomorrow (or later if I'm missing some parts).

So is there a chance we can find a source of this awesome Component encoder, like TmEE said? It would sure suck to require harvesting these encoders from SNES systems...

I agree with Guntz. I'd be awesome to get component out of both SNES and Genesis systems without having to use SCART to component, plus converter.

Okay, I don't know what's going on, but for some reason, two posts on this thread seem to be under review by a moderator. Let's see if this one gets through.

EDIT: Okay, well, it did get through. Don't know what happened with the other two posts, but if they show up, I will delete them.

Anyways, a source for the BA6592F is UTSource.net. I may ask for a quote to see how much it costs to get one chip from them. They have a minimum order of $10, so you may need to purchase multiple chips if they cost under $10 per chip (highly likely as they sell the CXA1145 and CXA1645 for $5, though I expect the BA6592F to cost more than those encoders).

One console I'd be curious to try out on my converter is the Nintendo 64. I have an RGB-modded Nintendo 64 that outputs really dark RGB on my Commodore 1084S, so I'd be curious to see if its video output is any better through Component using the BA6592F.

Let us know what you find out in price! The possibility of doing a compact, high quality component mod on the cheap makes me drool a little.

I got an e-mail back from UTSource and they're going to check the price of the chip. I should get a quote within a day or so.

By the way, if anyone wants to build this converter on an etched PCB, I'm going to make a PCB layout which I will use should I decide to sell some pre-made converters (and I am REALLY tempted to do this).

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Originally Posted by Ace

I'm going to make a PCB layout which I will use should I decide to sell some pre-made converters (and I am REALLY tempted to do this).

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You really should, I think there's some real money to be had if you actually put out something like this. Internal component encoders like the JROK and NeoBitz tend to be expensive and I'm not even sure if they're in stock these days.

What about SNES2? I have some RCA jacks, switches, and stuff. Might be a start.

Just my main problem (aside from next to no experience!) is lack of drill bits. Didn't get around to finding some that looked quite right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ace

I got an e-mail back from UTSource and they're going to check the price of the chip. I should get a quote within a day or so.

By the way, if anyone wants to build this converter on an etched PCB, I'm going to make a PCB layout which I will use should I decide to sell some pre-made converters (and I am REALLY tempted to do this).

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Depending on price, I might be in for a few. LMK.

Man, I'd love to get some of those from UTsource and make Component boxes or something! Hopefully there's a steady renewable source to be had at UTSource, component for everyone would be a wonderful thing indeed! :D

Will the board be able to fit in a 32X?

I'd love to have my Genesis/32X and my Saturn be able to output in component.

All right, I have a quote from UTSource. They're selling the BA6592F for $3 per chip, so you need to order 4 of those chips to meet the $10 minimum order. They seem to have a pretty huge stock of those chips, so go ahead and get some if you want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ApolloBoy

You really should, I think there's some real money to be had if you actually put out something like this. Internal component encoders like the JROK and NeoBitz tend to be expensive and I'm not even sure if they're in stock these days.

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Okay, I'm gonna start selling those boxes, then! The only problem would be etching the PCBs as I don't have the necessary equipment for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lumclaw

What about SNES2? I have some RCA jacks, switches, and stuff. Might be a start.

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You can't get Component out of its encoder. The Super NES Mini uses the Nintendo S-RGB video encoder, which is based off the ROHM BA6596F. This one has RGB outputs rather than Component outputs. You would need an external circuit with the BA6592F to get Component out of the Super NES Mini (and you would need to wire RGB and Sync to the multi-A/V out to get RGB out of the Super NES Mini in the first place).

There are also 3 motherboard revisions of the original-model Super NES with this encoder: SNS-CPU-RGB-01, SNS-CPU-RGB-02 and SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01. If your original-model Super NES has any of these motherboard revisions, you can't get Component video without an external converter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Will the board be able to fit in a 32X?

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Considering there aren't very many components on the circuit, it may be possible to make a board small enough to fit in the 32X. I'm going to design a PCB in the coming days, then get some equipment to etch PCBs and see if it fits in the 32X.

Just wanted to say Ace, repped for awesome work.

Looking forward to seeing what comes out of this thread. :D

So looking at your schematic, I'm curious - how did you get your pin numbers and information? You go from 22-20, then drop to 8, the you go in the opposite direction and go from 2 to 5 at the bottom of the chip. Then you have 23, 1, then 24 as pinouts for the component out... I tried to find a data sheet but I didn't see one on first look.

Thanks. :)

The datasheet is in the very first post of the thread:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bibin

This VERY ELUSIVE datasheet was helpful:
http://mikejmoffitt.com/BA6592F.pdf

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That's where the pin numbers come from. Just so you know, the RGB inputs are labelled as AR, AG and AB. The circuit shown there is a lot more complex, but for RGB to Component conversion, anything that's not the RGB inputs, Composite Sync input, VCC, Ground, Luminance output, B-Y output and R-Y output is completely unnecessary.

I grouped everything in my schematic like this: the left side has the RGB and Sync inputs along with VCC and Ground, and the right side has the Component outputs.

Got it. Thanks again. :) I'm waiting on a quote for a few encoders, and then I'll install them in all my systems. This is a fantastic find, and if I could rep you any more, I would!

Fantastic news to hear UTSource has a large stock of these chips. Component at an affordable price would certainly usher in a new era of video quality on any retro console. I'm getting tired of component being such an expensive modification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ace

The only problem would be etching the PCBs as I don't have the necessary equipment for that.

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You don't have to, there are actually companies out there that will make you PCBs if you send them a layout. This site might be a good try: http://www.speedypcb.com/

Okay, why the hell is every post I make from my laptop going to be reviewed by a moderator? I don't get it. Hopefully, this gets through.

EDIT: Seems the Quick Reply is being a bitch.

Anyways, thanks for that link, ApolloBoy. I'm going to design my PCB now and check to see how much they'd charge to etch it.

And it looks like I'm gonna need another encoder. My spare BA6592F is faulty as it keeps shifting the tint from blue to green and back. Also, as luck would have it, my other converter failed. It can't sync anymore and I also broke a critical pin on the chip. Son of a bitch...

I guess now, it's time to order some BA6592Fs off of UTSource (as soon as some parts I bought from them show up - they're still not in Canada. Damn SingPost is so f***ing slow!).

I've also found a mistake in the schematic. B-Y and R-Y are reversed. The corrected schematic has been attached to this post.

Out of curiosity would it be possible to use this chip to make a Dreamcast Component Video box? Or would the 31KHz RGB not work with the BA6592F?

It probably does not have enough bandwidth to cover a 12MHz video signal (result would horizontally blurred image)

Doesn't the Dreamcast support both 15KHz RGB and VGA? It would make more sense to run the Dreamcast at 15KHz rather than 31KHz for use with the BA6592F.

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Originally Posted by Ace

Doesn't the Dreamcast support both 15KHz RGB and VGA? It would make more sense to run the Dreamcast at 15KHz rather than 31KHz for use with the BA6592F.

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Well you wouldn't get 480p that way. That's why I asked if it would be possible at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ace

Doesn't the Dreamcast support both 15KHz RGB and VGA? It would make more sense to run the Dreamcast at 15KHz rather than 31KHz for use with the BA6592F.

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Yes. Other than Xbox 360 one of the very few consoles to offer wide official support for both. (PS2's linux VGA cable was rare and pretty useless on games without 480p mode)

The issue in Dreamcast games is they may not support one or the other. It's what makes building a "proper" component circuit difficult. You'd have to integrate some kind of mode switcher technology.

Just ordered a batch of BA6592F encoders from UTSource, so hopefully they'll be in before too long for me to test out. At 1.00 each, I figure its a good gamble, and I can retrofit all my systems with them if the encoder delivers decent results.

$1 each? How many did you buy? I've been quoted for $3 per chip and I'm ordering two.

Actually, speaking of the encoder, can the Super NES still output video even with no encoder in place? I know it can't output Composite and S-Video anymore, but I'm under the impression the RGB outputs may still work considering the encoder has no RGB outputs. If it could still output RGB even without the BA6592F or S-ENC, I may desolder the S-ENC on my SNS-CPU-GPM-01 for use on my Component converter (this will negate the need for an amp).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ace

$1 each? How many did you buy? I've been quoted for $3 per chip and I'm ordering two.

Actually, speaking of the encoder, can the Super NES still output video even with no encoder in place? I know it can't output Composite and S-Video anymore, but I'm under the impression the RGB outputs may still work considering the encoder has no RGB outputs. If it could still output RGB even without the BA6592F or S-ENC, I may desolder the S-ENC on my SNS-CPU-GPM-01 for use on my Component converter (this will negate the need for an amp).

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Well what I'm guessing probably happens in the SNES systems that use this encoder is they take the component out and feed it back into the chips component inputs and that's how they get Composite and S-Video. The Chip has those outputs, but it can only do it from Component in if I'm reading the documents correctly. So you can still output Composite and S-Video if you feed the Component back in. Would it be possible to split the Component Signal at some point so you can have one that will go back in for Composite and S-Video and another that will go to your Component Out Jacks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ace

$1 each? How many did you buy? I've been quoted for $3 per chip and I'm ordering two.

Actually, speaking of the encoder, can the Super NES still output video even with no encoder in place? I know it can't output Composite and S-Video anymore, but I'm under the impression the RGB outputs may still work considering the encoder has no RGB outputs. If it could still output RGB even without the BA6592F or S-ENC, I may desolder the S-ENC on my SNS-CPU-GPM-01 for use on my Component converter (this will negate the need for an amp).

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I ordered 10 - I started with 5 but I had also asked for a quote for the RP2C03B as well (for NES mods), since it showed they had some in stock. Well it turns out they didn't have that PPU any longer (boo!) so I increased my order for the BA6592Fs to 10 and I got 1.00 per chip. Seemed like a good deal.

Also, I'm pretty sure the RGB signals would work, but they would have to be amplified to be usable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ace

$1 each? How many did you buy? I've been quoted for $3 per chip and I'm ordering two.

Actually, speaking of the encoder, can the Super NES still output video even with no encoder in place? I know it can't output Composite and S-Video anymore, but I'm under the impression the RGB outputs may still work considering the encoder has no RGB outputs. If it could still output RGB even without the BA6592F or S-ENC, I may desolder the S-ENC on my SNS-CPU-GPM-01 for use on my Component converter (this will negate the need for an amp).

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UTSource's quoting system is rather weird. I struggled a lot with it to get good offers, and after a few attempts, I managed to get 12 CXA2075s @ $2 a piece.

I'd like to experiment with this chip on the Genesis although it would be pretty weird. A CXA1145 that is wired to a CXA2075 which is wired in turn to a BA6592F, heh.

I think what you should do instead is just tie the "input" RGB signals from the 1145 and put that on the BA6592F. You can adjust the video before and after you know....

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Originally Posted by villahed94

UTSource's quoting system is rather weird. I struggled a lot with it to get good offers, and after a few attempts, I managed to get 12 CXA2075s @ $2 a piece.

I'd like to experiment with this chip on the Genesis although it would be pretty weird. A CXA1145 that is wired to a CXA2075 which is wired in turn to a BA6592F, heh.

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That would still induce rainbow banding, though. At least, that's my theory. I'm actually amping the raw RGB signals from the VDP into a 1645, and then I'll route them into the BA6592F if the s-video and composite look kosher.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lastcallhall

That would still induce rainbow banding, though. At least, that's my theory. I'm actually amping the raw RGB signals from the VDP into a 1645, and then I'll route them into the BA6592F if the s-video and composite look kosher.

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I tried wiring the 2075 directly to the solder points (where the 1145 would normally go) but saturation would go up and down, with the image quality decaying over time...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lastcallhall

That would still induce rainbow banding, though. At least, that's my theory. I'm actually amping the raw RGB signals from the VDP into a 1645, and then I'll route them into the BA6592F if the s-video and composite look kosher.

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Actually, the Genesis only has rainbow banding in S-Video and Composite. When my RGB to Component converter used to work, I got no rainbow banding whatsoever using the RGB out of the DIN connector.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ace

Actually, the Genesis only has rainbow banding in S-Video and Composite. When my RGB to Component converter used to work, I got no rainbow banding whatsoever using the RGB out of the DIN connector.

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See, that's interesting because I remember reading a post here with someone else who had the opposite effect - the banding on RGB was further pronounced than it was on s-vid or composite. Then again, who knows if they knew what they were doing... Still, it's a fun little project for me. I've already recapped the entire board and this is the next phase of the process, along with a 10MHz overclock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lastcallhall

See, that's interesting because I remember reading a post here with someone else who had the opposite effect - the banding on RGB was further pronounced than it was on s-vid or composite. Then again, who knows if they knew what they were doing... Still, it's a fun little project for me. I've already recapped the entire board and this is the next phase of the process, along with a 10MHz overclock.

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The only banding that can happen is the jailbar effect which is really noticeable on Svideo and composite on the 2075 if you are using subcarrier lines.

This brings out another question: Where can I obtain subcarrier signals other than the 1145 area in a VA2 MD1? (I'm placing the 2075 between the VDP and the 315-5309 to avoid heat/interference issues).