The Arcade machine or a console port?Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
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The Arcade machine or a console port?Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Bump for fresh members.
Read the OP.
SEGA was in solid financial shape all the way until mid 1997. They had no plans or even one consideration to quit hardware in 1995 their focus then was trying to over-saturate the collapsing global Arcade market while maintaining a sound funded 1st party home consumer division.Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticGroove
SEGA's problems begin once Dreamcast begin development because of two things: GameWorks,Inc which was a $2 billion investment in 1996 and the collapse of the Arcade market worth over $7 billion back in the 90s.
By 1998, SEGA had only $2 billion left. Their net worth was dissapearing because CSK's investors had little market cap leftover and the Arcade(SEGA's core business in the same form that Sony's is failing) market was taking in massive losses in revenue.
Dreamcast's budget cost $500 million which because SEGA/CSK had little revenue came from their own pocket so by 1999, only $1.5 billion is left. Despite the revenue from Dreamcast's successful Western release, Japanese sales were poor and the Arcade market wasn't getting any better and with Playstation 2 on the way, SEGA knew their problems were worsening.
By 2000, only $800 million was left and SEGA was beginning to amass $3 billion in debt, SEGA needed money fast, and was confused on how to save their core brand from financial meltdown. GameWorks had assets worth $5 billion and liquidating it would have been enough to SAVE the entire company. But Isao Okawa and SEGA didn't want to sacrifice their crowning achievement, so they threw in the towel with their 1st party brand.
The silver lining is at least now, SEGA is back to where they were in 1997: In financial BLACK.
SegaSammy Holdings,Inc currently has a net worth of 29.9 Billion yen sum total($18.9 billion) and has $3.5 billion in cash on hand. The $3 billion deficit was finally taken care of in 2008. Thanks to 4 straight years of strong revenue from markets outside of game software and prior to 2009, the success in paying off that debt though Operating Sales and closing numorous Amusement facilities.
"Sega Corporation,Inc" also no longer exists. Good. That means they'll stop being a software only brand. SEGA will save a total of $2.2 billion from turning its 3rd party division into a Digital-only,PC,portable and mobile brand only.
This how things currently stand for SEGA financially and investment and businesswise:
As of August 31,2012 Sega Corporation,Inc no longer exists. They are currently Kabushiki Kaisha SEGA & have been re-organizing since January 2012.
SegaSammy Holdings, Inc which merged on 10/1/2004 will soon be dissolved since as of 2010, Sammy Corp no longer exists as a separate entity but as a owned subsidiarity of Kabushiki Kaisha Sega.
Once the split is finalized, SEGA will merge with new investment circle "Orbi Enterprises,Inc".
Orbi Enterprises has renewed SEGA's old R&D home consumer hardware division "Away 27" & has provided $10 billion in loans for Franchising partnerships in dozens of markets OUTSIDE of gaming expected to be paid off by 2027.
Because of this, Orbi plans Franchising brands partnering up in the Hotel,Theater and Restaurant business. Which means, pretty soon, you'll be staying in a Marriott or Hilton franchised by Sega or watching "Wreck
-It-Ralph 2" at a Cinemark or Tinsletown franchised by SEGA or even dining at an Outback or ordering Pizza from a Domino's Pizza franchised by SEGA.
SEGA currently has $3.5 billion in cash earned by almost 4 straight years of strong revenue totaling $12 billion 2009-2012. If the company earns $6 billion in
revenue for FYI 2012 they'll have $5 billion. Get rid of "Gameworks,Inc", another $5 billion with $10.2 billion in cash. Which would give them more than enough to maintain their 1st party brand for a long time.
SEGA's profit & revenue has come from the following markets outside of 3rd party console games: Arcades,Toys,Licensing,Amusement Parks,Merchindising,Panchiko,PC games,Toy Vending Machines,DLC & Portable gaming which totals a $5.5 Billion Market Cap and over $25 billion in assets.
So for the first time in over 15 years, SEGA is in good shape to launch new home consumer gaming hardware and can sell both a Tablet console and game console for just $1.5 billion combined. With only $350 million, they can easily launch a Tablet device with TV use features and with $800 million, they can release a Dreamcast successor and bring back revolutionizing and innovating to game hardware design, gameplay innovation and low cost cutting edge technology.
Orbi also promises to provide SEGA with plenty of risk-free backup to keep their console business going and will assure the debacle that hit during Dreamcast never occurs again.
mrsega, your conversion to US dollars is wrong and you know it. Edit your cut'n'paste nonsense please.
Also, double posting is bad, m'kay?
They would have to be idiots to launch a console now.
MS, Sony, and Nintendo are going very strong, fighting each other for several markets.
If they were doing poorly I could see room for a risky move to bump into a respectable 3rd place sales wise, with hopes of aiming at the #2 or #1 spot. But Sega no longer has any brand history to lure in fans, and they don't have the money and infrastructure Sony or MS have. Their first party games have not exactly been known for high quality in some time... so relying on that as a system seller would be folly.
And why would they spend billions to sell a few hundred thousand copies of a game (being very generous) when they can invest far less and sell just as many or more copies on the other systems?
As far as portable devices go... IOS/Android and destroying the portable market for dedicated devices. Even the 3DS needed a hell of a kick to get moving now, and it has a very well known lineage and name behind it.
I could see them maybe trying to jump in with a device of some type, but I doubt it will be a gaming system, and if it's a portable I'd hope it would be a droid or windows mobile system since that is about their best option there.
They would be pretty idiotic to throw their hat into the ring at this point when Nintendo has just launched their system, and MS and Sony are on the cusp of releasing their own. Of course, Sega has made some idiotic moves in the past, so not going to discount it as possible.
As you can see, SEGA has gained plenty of capital outside of gaming software something that they lacked during the CSK years. ORBI offers them venture business in plenty of different markets.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
To ElecticGroove. Thats the purpose of the "Orbi" brand. To provide them with backup capital in unrelated markets to keep their 1st party business alive something that was missing back in the CSK era. As for Sony, you do know that they are falling in dire straits right? Their core Electronics brand has taken MASSIVE multi billion losses in revenue, sales of TVs,Cameras,Blu-Ray,Laptops,Tablets are being massacred by their competitors and its SCEI division(usually its most profitable )is not pulling in efficient enough revenue, all the other markets aren't faring any better either. All the capital they had 10 years ago is gone. The company now only has $50 billion in net worth. During PS2 it was worth over $80 billion.
On top of that, Sony has lost $22 billion on PS3 and is $15 billion in debt due to budget losses on the system.(7 years of R&D,multi billions spent on it alone with a reported $10 billion) AS a result, only $6 billion in budget is left for Sony's core markets and $2 billion after VITA for SCEI. Sony is still selling PS3 and VITA at a loss, and has lost a billion annually on the SKU alone. Add VITA's poor sales and it makes things even worse.
Sony is in weak financial shape and things aren't getting better. As its revenue continues to nosedive, A PS3 successor isn't going to make things better. It'll quickly drive Sony into bankruptcy and force them to shutter SCEI.
Sony might as well face the inevitability coming from them. 20 years after they entered the console business, they'll have to dissolve Sony Computer Entertainment to save their core multi billion Electronics brand.
And as for double posting, thanks for the advice. I need to get used to multi qouting.
I can say this: From what we can conclude, Sega Enterprises,LTD was never a multi billion dollar company. But rather only a semi billion.
They had a modest net worth of at least $9 billion(around 1993 I believe) but most of the money always seemed to have come from investors and they always seemed to have alot more spending money and little capital.
Sega only had 3 markets and it largest core market: Global Amusement Arcade Centers, actually ended up becoming its biggest liability.
SEGA's own home console division fared well up until a larger giant named Sony got into the race. Nintendo was the same way a semi billion gaming and handheld brand that faced competition with a large Electronic conglomerate Sony and the irony that Sony's entry was their own damn fault.
I would say over the past 7 or so years, SEGASammy it seems did alot of soul searching, likely re-evaluating its glory days, and looking over every investment,business decision,marketing approach both one's they did right and one's they did wrong. SEGA also realized it wasn't protecting the legacy of its last console "Dreamcast" and that Nintendo was stealing concepts from it for Wii, so in 2007 they re-filed the Dreamcast name and are now steadfastly protecting it.
http://the-dreamcast-junkyard.blogsp...ntrols-by.html
I theorize, that SEGA as a whole has been restructuring since 2009. When Sega closed most of its American development studios.
The ORBI idea is finally starting to make more sense. Instead of competing as a semi-billion dollar gaming hardware brand, modest capital is mandatory for SEGA with a total of 14 brands in order to keep their 1st party brand healthy . 4 multi-billion dollar brands, 3 semi billion dollar Accommodation Franchising brands and 7 small multi-million "dime store" market brands.
The 4 Multi Billion brands: 1. Sega's 1st party division SEGA AM Amusements and Home Consumer Gaming. 2. Orbi Casino, Food and Toy Vending Services. 3. SEGA Orbi Amusement Park services. 4. Orbi Communications for OEM contracting, electronic silicon parts, parts for Electronic devices, Mobile phone brand manufacturing, and secondary licensing for Optical and Home Media.(In which I believe will be with Toshiba.)
The 3 Semi Billion Dollar Franchising Brands: 1. Orbi Restaurants,LLC. 2. Orbi Entertainment,LLC. 3. Orbi Lodging,LLC.
The 7 multi million brands. 1. SEGA Toys. 2. Orbi Print,Inc. 3. Sega Networks,Inc. 4. Orbi Supplies,Inc. 5. Orbi Leather,Clothing and Sundries,Inc. 6. Orbi Decor and Furniture,Inc. 7. Orbi Food Communications,Inc.
Now, Its starting to make a hellva alot more sense!
Not true. I've spoken to several former SOA people who have stated that there was plenty talk of going software-only, even in Japan. No one ever brought it up officially, as Nakayama was a hardware man who wouldn't consider leaving it, but there was definitely an atmosphere by 1996 that things weren't going to last much longer if something didn't change.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
What if they just made stuff for the hard core fans? Like decent Genesis clones, and prints of Saturn and DC games?
Hey Melf, sorry to bug you like this and also go off topic, but did you by any chance read my message, I think I sent it roughly a month ago now. Their was a few links in the email however so I'm not sure if the spam filter picked it up and you did'nt receive it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
It was about the Nvidia NV1 chip and Sega's involvement in its development and subesquently trying to design a follow up. A member over at Vogons managed to get another interview with Don Goddard, art director for everybody's favourite failure Sonic Xtreme, I realised theres an older one over at Sega Retro thats quite detailed. Basically he goes quite in-depth over Sega's involvement and the NV1 technology.
Thought it seemed like an interesting lead for a future interview as he seems very open and happy to talk about his time at Sega in the mid-90's. He may shed some light on the culture of the time and some of the internal problems, hardware and software wise going on.
Cheers Melf!
I don't know why Sega didn't continue to make games like SNK did for the NEO GEO, it seems silly to me that they didn't. From what I gathered from the post Dreamcast days though, the entire company culture sort of gave up and let itself become defeated. Dialing back to 1995 though, we are talking about the days when one programmer could port a game from one system even to one as "difficult" as the Saturn. We really are_not talking about a lot of dedicated resources for a port.
If I were running Sega at the time I probably would have convinced Sega of Japan to give up on the Amusement division and focus on consumer hardware by 1995. I would leave all home hardware and software as is and outsource a world class marketing company to reinvigorate Sega as a brand. I would have the top AM studios working on middle ware from at least PC to Saturn and 32X so any developer first to third party could inexpensively port games between platforms without learning the hardware. I would assassinate Bernie Stolar while he still worked for Sony, and maybe Nakayama shortly after the 32X launched. Aside from that I would pretty much leave everything the same but instead of canceling hardware I would just keep it on the market and have a few dedicated teams make exclusives and ports until some newer hardware replaced it in sales. I would let the company's size ebb and flow with the market and demand, rather than trying to "win" the top sales position every year.
I agree with that and take it that you indeed have spoken to execs who after Hayao Nakayama retired and Soichiro Iwajiri took over also around the time Bernie Stolar was hired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Isao Okawa was defiantly a software guy. After he took over in 2000 and after he changed Sega's name to "Sega Corporation" I think the elephant in the room was there that they were going software only. Okawa was pretty blunt that he wasn't going follow Iwajiri's investment plan to keep funding Dreamcast. Okawa's own dying wish in 2001 was that if SEGA were to survive, that if there were eventual option of doing business outside of gaming, that he hoped SEGA would do it.
So by 1996, it was clear that packing it up was at least an afterthought though they still were in solid shape. The irony was simply that by mid 1997, financially for Sega, things were getting worse.
[QOUTE=sheath.]I don't know why Sega didn't continue to make games like SNK did for the NEO GEO, it seems silly to me that they didn't. From what I gathered from the post Dreamcast days though, the entire company culture sort of gave up and let itself become defeated. Dialing back to 1995 though, we are talking about the days when one programmer could port a game from one system even to one as "difficult" as the Saturn. We really are_not talking about a lot of dedicated resources for a port.
If I were running Sega at the time I probably would have convinced Sega of Japan to give up on the Amusement division and focus on consumer hardware by 1995. I would leave all home hardware and software as is and outsource a world class marketing company to reinvigorate Sega as a brand. I would have the top AM studios working on middle ware from at least PC to Saturn and 32X so any developer first to third party could inexpensively port games between platforms without learning the hardware. I would assassinate Bernie Stolar while he still worked for Sony, and maybe Nakayama shortly after the 32X launched. Aside from that I would pretty much leave everything the same but instead of canceling hardware I would just keep it on the market and have a few dedicated teams make exclusives and ports until some newer hardware replaced it in sales. I would let the company's size ebb and flow with the market and demand, rather than trying to "win" the top sales position every year.[/QOUTE]
Regarding Bernie Stolar, I've often wondered what what Sega thinking hiring him? I recall Naoya Tsurumi himself believing that hiring him was "Bad Omen" I'd say he was far from correct. Why the hell would you hire an executive from your biggest competitor?
Peter Moore should have been hired in '96 instead of Stolar. If Moore (who was at 3DO at the time)was in charge of SOA at the time, The Saturn could have been saved.
If I were in charge at least in 1994. I would have pressured Nakayama into NOT letting the Mars/ 32X idea get on wheels. Forced SOA to listen to SOJ, Junked all of those System 32 series prototypes and focused on Jupiter and Saturn. Given most publishers development kits for Sega Jupiter and would have properly trained all publishers on how to program the Saturn as well as sold the 1MB and 4MB carts with every 3D Saturn game.
With the AM studios, I would have made the focus SOLELY on 1 Amusement platform: Model 2 and nothing else while providing sound R&D on how to sell superior hardware to 3rd party developers. The core market didn't need too many Boards or even the "GameWorks" idea, the Arcade market was going underwater and letting it fail would have been the best option or playing it safe. I also would have talked AM into appointing other Arcade software developers into supporting only Model 2 and abandoning all low cost 2D boards.
I would have also salvaged the Genesis/Mega Drive, SEGA CD and Game Gear, they all still had sound markets. With Dreamcast, I would have gone for DVD-ROM and the "Black Belt" chipset.
I would have been thinking about the ORBI idea by at least the year 1999 and would have put it on wheels by around 2005.
I've already posted this in the other thread.The $2 billion investment in Gameworks wasn't all from Sega; it probably was less than 30%. Your facts are totally wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GameWorks
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
Sony did not lose $22 billion on PS3, as a matter of fact, the PS3 was profitable in 2010 and with the recent hardware revision, it's more than likely very profitable. You have a source for that fountain of misinformation?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
I guess that would be useful, but would it be possible? I'm pretty sure developers would have to learn the hardware to some degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
I hope you don't seriously mean you would actually kill these two people.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
I don't think not cancelling the 32X would be a good idea. Why not spend the resources used on everything 32X-related on the Saturn?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
I agree that the Saturn needed better manuals and documentation for developers, maybe they could have made some cheesy instructional videos or something :pQuote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
But including RAM carts with every game? That is completely absurd. Plenty of 3D Saturn games ran just fine on stock hardware, Look at NiGHTS, VF2, Tomb Raider, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, and the Shenmue demo! (and many, many others) Yeah, they could have used the RAM cart for more games, but including it with every game would be incredibly expensive for the consumer and totally unnecessary.
Don't these two ideas contradict each other?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSegaQuote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega