CRT gaming is fantastic!

I havent owned a CRT TV in about 7 years and had gotten used to how older consoles look on LCDs. I always wanted to get one but I dont have the room for one. Yesterday, on a whim, i checked Craigslist and saw a gorgeous 24" Sony WEGA CRT for $15. The guy just wanted it gone. I picked it up, brought it home, and i'm ashamed to say the wife and kids got ignored all night. PS2 games looked great again and I about came to tears when I saw how fantastic my Genesis games looked on composite hookups.

I find myself at work, anxiously counting hours, until I can get home and play games that have been sitting dormant on a shelf for months/years. Sadly, I have no place for it, although I did make room in my daughters closet to put it in. Shes 4 so her stuff only takes up half a closet thankfully. I have a renewed love for all the old consoles now....time to hit up the internet to find some games.....

I agree. CRT is so much better, especially for side scrolling games. Heck, even modern sidescrollers look better in motion when you playing them on CRT. I remember playing Muramasa and Sonic 4, on the LCD there was this annoying ghosting problem where the backgrounds looked crisp when still but blurred when in motion. On CRT the backgrounds look crystal clear even when they are moving. I haven't seen a modern TV doing that and i've tested a few. That's why i still have my CRT TV (despite having a new LCD in the same room) and a CRT monitor for my PC.

I love my CRT, though I am looking to upgrade. I've noticed quite a few Wega and Triniton's on craigslist lately. I think I'm gonna pick one up in the next week or two. Hopefuly I'll find a nice one with S-video inputs.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

I agree. CRT is so much better, especially for side scrolling games. Heck, even modern sidescrollers look better in motion when you playing them on CRT. I remember playing Muramasa and Sonic 4, on the LCD there was this annoying ghosting problem where the backgrounds looked crisp when still but blurred when in motion. On CRT the backgrounds look crystal clear even when they are moving. I haven't seen a modern TV doing that and i've tested a few. That's why i still have my CRT TV (despite having a new LCD in the same room) and a CRT monitor for my PC.

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That's really one area where a CRT has years of advantages over the LCD TV's as it is one of their weakest areas. Even a piss poor CRT will have less ghosting and refresh issues than all but the best LCD's.

LCD's are playing catch up in many areas, and some of the ones put out in the last 2 few years have started getting really good. But it's still an issue people need to be very aware of.

If you're going to be gaming on an LCD you do need to do some research on the current models so that you are not investing into a piece of crap that will have tons of ghosting/refresh issues.
I went plasma for that specific reason, MUCH higher refresh rate, and a black level comparable to a good CRT. There were no LCD's on the market at the time that could offer as much, and the ones that even came close were almost twice the price.

I agree that crt gaming is fantastic, the older systems all look much better on a crt than they do on a hd tv. I may eventually get a hd tv to use with my ps3 and wii but i'll always have a crt for the older systems.

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Originally Posted by Hidden_Darkness

the older systems all look much better on a crt than they do on a hd tv.

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The older systems are virtually unplayable to me on a hd tv because of how they look.

Thankyou for the longest time I felt like I was the only advocate of crt tvs. I have a big screen rca crt that I bought brand new around 2001 / 2002 and have kept in amazing condition because I understand hardware well enough to keep it in great shape. My crt only has s-video inputs but on a crt the difference between component video and s-video isn't huge. Also back when I bought my tv I honestly didn't even know what component video was. I have another big screen crt with component inputs but it's a crapy 25$ garage sale thing so the picture quality is worse than my rca. I've basically engineered the best possible s-video circuits for all of my favourite consoles just because of how amazing it looks on this tv. Playing consoles on a flatscreen looks like you're playing an emulator...bleh. These older systems were built for crts so they shine best on the glowing tube with real scanlines.

I love CRT's for gaming.. Heck, I even fixed mine, and used my SEGA as a test to make sure the TV was ok after the repairs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE_VHAT15y8

I love my Samsung CRT. Though it's only a 20 inch it's still quite nice. It's one of the later flat screen models and it has 3 Composite inputs (Technically 2 since the side and 2nd Rear one are the same input), 1 S-Video input and 1 Component input. The colors are quire vibrant on it and even with the Samsung encoder my model 2 Genesis looks quite nice on it. Also with my DVD player hooked up through component I've noticed that watching some of my Anime DVDs (Code Geass, Dragonball Z, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, etc.) that they look cleaner and crisper than on my Plasma being upscaled through my BluRay player and the colors pop a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Drakon

Thankyou for the longest time I felt like I was the only advocate of crt tvs.

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Hey, you're not the only one. I game exclusively on a CRT TV unless a particular console supports 480p or higher, in which case, I use an LCD. Especially with older consoles, CRTs are the way to go, and I STRONGLY encourage people to get CRT TVs with Component inputs (which begs the question: which TVs can take RGB through the Component inputs if any?). If you have a console that outputs RGB, get yourself an RGB to Component converter (or build one yourself) and be prepared to experience classic gaming hardware like you would have never imagined.

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Originally Posted by Drakon

My crt only has s-video inputs but on a crt the difference between component video and s-video isn't huge.

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This actually depends on the TV. On my CRT, a 27" Electrohome 27E510, the difference between S-Video and Component is obvious. S-Video is a little blurrier and doesn't have as much color variation as Component does. Example: some of the duller colors appear more saturated in S-Video than they do in Component. I've seen this happen with several games (Gradius III and Thunder Force II MD, especially). Games with bright colors will just show up blurrier in S-Video

Attachment 5134

Thats the sony tv i got for $15. I was also blown away by the sound quality of the tv. I had forgotten how good some of these sets could sound. I've been searching the internet all day for games...its fun

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Originally Posted by DarkDragon

The older systems are virtually unplayable to me on a hd tv because of how they look.

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They look pretty good on my 32" HD-CRT. I have a 27" SD Wega that I use for light-fun games, I use the HD-CRT for everything else.
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ections002.jpg

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Originally Posted by gamevet

They look pretty good on my 32" HD-CRT. I have a 27" SD Wega that I use for light-fun games, I use the HD-CRT for everything else.

IMG code

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Well the HD tvs I tried them on werent exactly top of the line models.

I find that most LCD TVs look like ass when they're displaying any content that wasn't specifically designed for their display format. Yeah, recent films and modern games can look great, but I'd far rather watch older movies and 20th-century games on a CRT.

Every time I've hooked an older gaming system up to a LCD TV, I've experienced terrible lag. I remember playing Columns at my girlfriend's parents' house, with my Nomad hooked up via AV outs, and the output delay between the Nomad and the LCD was something like a full half-second (you could hear it in the sound effects). Yes, I know there are settings that can be used to ameliorate this, but when I played Kaboom on my sister's huge, recent-model LCD TV (with the Atari coming in via the cable TV input), the lag was still unsustainably bad even with "game settings".

So yeah, I'm pretty happy with my large-ish CRT. Only once in a while do I wish for more resolution, and if I really want that, I have a flatscreen monitor with AV inputs that I can use.

My Samsung LCD works fine with my classic game consoles. I tried using a Sony trinitron tube, but I was not impressed. The thing weighed a ton, and the picture quality was not much different. I hate scanlines. I guess it all depends on which LCD you have.

I've got a 28" RCA SDTV hooked up with all of my consoles that support, Composite, S-Video or Component, but I hardly ever use it. My 40" Toshiba LCD HD-TV displays everything they way I expect it to be, I haven't noticed any ghosting or blur or any other issue that always bugged me in emulation. I still need to set up the digital camera and record myself playing on both sets simultaneously. At least then I could know for sure that the CRT and the LCD with game mode on aren't affecting my experience.

Oh, and I have a Sony Wega 32" HD-CRT in the guest bedroom, but all it has hooked up to it is a DVD Player and occasionally a Master System 2 (which looks great). I bought it for $80 thinking it would work with light gun games, and ended up being given the 28 "RCA instead. Also, the smaller screen looks better for Standard Definition games.

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Originally Posted by Drakon

Thankyou for the longest time I felt like I was the only advocate of crt tvs.

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You aren't I haven't even bothered to get an HD TV (other than an HD-CRT) because pre-current gen consoles look SO MUCH BETTER on CRTs. Why would I spend more money to downgrade???

My current TV isn't an HD-CRT, but it does have s-video and composite for some nice 480p on PS2 and X-Box. Even PS3 looks decent on 480p. I don't need "better".



BTW, light guns don't work on an HD-CRT. ;)

You guys need to try Plasma for your retro gaming needs. That's the absolute best old games can look on non-CRT hardware. Just get RGB->Component running out of your Sega consoles.

Everything looks great on my 32" LCD HDTV; the brand is AOC (a Radioshack brand apparently). No ghosting or blur that people are complaining about...

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Originally Posted by Ecco

Everything looks great on my 32" LCD HDTV; the brand is AOC (a Radioshack brand apparently). No ghosting or blur that people are complaining about...

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Maybe you need to compare it with a CRT to see the difference. Many people say "it looks fine" because they don't remember how it looks on CRT, but when you actually show them a side by side comparison they notice a HUGE difference. The difference is more noticeable in side scrolling games (Sonic 4 was the game that had the bigger difference for me). Just look at the backgrounds when they are moving. Are they EXACTLY as crisp and sharp as they look when they are not moving? On CRT they are. On every LCD i ever tested there is always some blurring/ghosting (more or less).

I already made this comparison to a couple of friends who still have their CRTs somewhere in their house. They are glad they keep them.

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Originally Posted by Genesis Knight

You guys need to try Plasma for your retro gaming needs. That's the absolute best old games can look on non-CRT hardware. Just get RGB->Component running out of your Sega consoles.

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I can't believe it took 18 posts for someone to say this. Everyone here needs to try a Panasonic Viera, they are absolutely kick ass.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

I can't believe it took 18 posts for someone to say this. Everyone here needs to try a Panasonic Viera, they are absolutely kick ass.

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You missed mine as the 4th post in saying I got a plasma (Viera yes) for just those reasons. :P
The LCD's are def getting much better however. I don't think plasma will hold onto its advantages for much longer.

I thought plasmas didn't last.

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Originally Posted by old man

I thought plasmas didn't last.

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They do now. Any good plasma has several thousand hours of rated use before it hits the first "brightness drop" that would signal that you're starting to get real wear on it. They are still usable after that, but each brightness drop afterwards will get harder to adjust and eventually you will have no choice but to just live with it till you replace the TV.

Of course, defects, crappy brands, etc may all hit that well within the time of normal use.

The only real issue I still see around is that there are still problems with image retention. Not really hardcore burn in unless you have settings wrong or abuse it, but even within normal use you can certainly see some retained images for quite some time.

It can be a pain in the ass if you notice it, because you won't ever be able to not notice it until it clears itself out. And if it's something particularly bad (large text/logo/HUD) that is in a spot that tends to have large patches of bright colors... it can be noticeable even in use.
That's seriously my only gripe with my plasma... and if they ever sort that out 100% I would have no issues whatsoever recommending a plasma for any kind of use.

I don't think plasmas or LCDs last longer than five or so years of regular use. The days of ten to fifteen year old CRTs is over for sure.

Also, I just captured a bunch of videos of my RCA CRT and Toshiba LCD playing the same game from the same system. The LCD was obviously behind even without frame advancing without game mode on. With game mode it was harder to tell, but when I paused and frame advanced the video the LCD was 3 frames behind the LCD at all times. Well, at least I know why I've gotten worse at my favorite games.

Any good new TV, plasma, LCD, or CRT should last you 5+ years without a problem. Baring component failure, accidents, etc that is.

All the new panels are rated for some pretty hefty hours of use. The only real problem is that while CRT's get old they tend to get "picky" or "finicky" But will still give the same picture so long as you keep colors calibrated and the like.

*Edit* looking at it, almost all new LCD and Plasma panels tend to range from 50k- 100k+ Hours of use before they are supposed to burn out. That's anywhere from 5-10+ years of continual 24/7 365 use.

LCD's and plasmas, when they start getting older or suffering issues, tend to be more of an all or nothing. Picture burn in, burnt/stuck pixels/cells, back-light/brightness problems. Pretty much any of these will be grounds for most to start looking at a replacement unless they luck out and have a TV that's got a replaceable part responsible for the problem that isn't more expensive than a new TV.

The main CRT difference is less drastic quality range. Their properties mask artifacts from interference, use of composite video, etc. A bad source input may not look as bad on CRT. A good source input may not look as good on CRT.

Myself I didn't get exposure to the full potential of CRT growing up. For me CRTs are the opposite of nostalgia. I associate CRT with thoughts like "outdated", "bulky", "VHS", or "composite" that paint them in an unfairly negative sense.

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Originally Posted by runback22

Attachment 5134

Thats the sony tv i got for $15. I was also blown away by the sound quality of the tv. I had forgotten how good some of these sets could sound. I've been searching the internet all day for games...its fun

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Congrats on a great find!!!

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Originally Posted by lumclaw

The main CRT difference is less drastic quality range. Their properties mask artifacts from interference, use of composite video, etc. A bad source input may not look as bad on CRT. A good source input may not look as good on CRT.

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I disagree with that. There's a HUGE range in CRT quality. You have your absolute trash end bargain bin CRT's that you could buy brand new for like $20... and then you have your high end TV's that many stores wouldn't even sell as they were too pricey.

What I will agree with is that there was a gigantic "middle" range for CRT's that were all pretty good. The tech was so mature by the time flat panels started surpassing them that it was cheap and easy to make a pretty solid CRT for cheap. That doesn't mean they were great, just pretty good. My old Loewe Aconda CRT beat the ever loving hell out of every other TV I'd ever seen in any store or home for instance, at least until about 3 years ago when things started catching up much quicker.

The part the always baffles me are all the people on these retro forums trying to play old systems on an LCD or other modern display. Why is it so hard to keep a CRT around?!

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Originally Posted by Guntz

The part the always baffles me are all the people on these retro forums trying to play old systems on an LCD or other modern display. Why is it so hard to keep a CRT around?!

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For me.. because I have room for my pc monitor and my tv. I really don't have the space for another. I hated getting rid of my old CRT but I just had nowhere to put it that could justify keeping it around. It was also ungodly heavy and awkward to move around.

If I had my ideal setup I'd have it back and in a dedicated room with another dedicated sound system specifically for it. But since I don't have that, I got a TV that looks GREAT with everything new, and looks pretty good (if not fully accurate) for all the old stuff too. Everything from the last gen (PS2/Xbox/GC/DC) look pretty great on it, and the gen before that (Saturn, N64, PSX) looks pretty good as well.

The biggest hit is in the 16 bit systems or earlier, but the colors and responsiveness are excellent on my TV, the only real problem is that you have to be ok with seeing all the pixels and losing any of the dithering effects. Not ideal, but I also get them on a 50 inch TV :)

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Originally Posted by Guntz

I can't believe it took 18 posts for someone to say this. Everyone here needs to try a Panasonic Viera, they are absolutely kick ass.

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That's exactly what I'm running. The black levels and contrast on Panny Vieras are amazing, and they don't suffer from burn-in, either. Great sets, and the built-in scalers handle 240p content just great. Awesome for retro gaming!

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Originally Posted by Guntz

The part the always baffles me are all the people on these retro forums trying to play old systems on an LCD or other modern display. Why is it so hard to keep a CRT around?!

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They're super bulky for people with apartments (moi).

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Originally Posted by DarkDragon

Well the HD tvs I tried them on werent exactly top of the line models.

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Yeah, it doesn't look good at all on an HD LCD, but this is a CRT. I was trying to complete a video that had a comparison of the Genesis and SNES using the HD CRT and then the Genesis on my LCD, but HP media smart is a pain. I've posted this video for now. ;)

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Originally Posted by gamevet

They look pretty good on my 32" HD-CRT. I have a 27" SD Wega that I use for light-fun games, I use the HD-CRT for everything else.
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ections002.jpg

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That doesn't look like a HD-CRT, looks like a Flat CRT

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Originally Posted by KnightWarrior

That doesn't look like a HD-CRT, looks like a Flat CRT

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It's not 1080p, but it does support 720p, as well as 1080i.

I use it to play the original Xbox, Gamecube and PS2 in 480p, and even used it for my 360 and PS3 up until 2009 when I'd bought a 52" LCD. I even have this same set (bought it in 2006 for $500) to watch HD television broadcast in our master bedroom; the picture and color quality is pretty amazing.

http://www.newgadget.org/home-gadget...eally-extinct/

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Originally Posted by Ace

Hey, you're not the only one. I game exclusively on a CRT TV unless a particular console supports 480p or higher, in which case, I use an LCD. Especially with older consoles, CRTs are the way to go, and I STRONGLY encourage people to get CRT TVs with Component inputs (which begs the question: which TVs can take RGB through the Component inputs if any?). If you have a console that outputs RGB, get yourself an RGB to Component converter (or build one yourself) and be prepared to experience classic gaming hardware like you would have never imagined.

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Okay well I only started posting regularily here recently. It seems people on other forums don't understand why crts are so great for video gaming. I mean the whole d#mn reason I've been engineering "perfect" or "near perfect" s-video from all my favourite consoles is because my crt has such a beautiful picture and the best input it has is just...s-video. Unfortunately my component crt the colour green looks off no matter how much I mess with the tint.

Also to me the only complaint about s-video vs component on a crt is on s-video from the genesis I wasn't able to 100% get rid of the rainbow banding. But on component video the image is 100% rainbow free.....darn you segaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

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Originally Posted by Lan Di

My Samsung LCD works fine with my classic game consoles. I tried using a Sony trinitron tube, but I was not impressed. The thing weighed a ton, and the picture quality was not much different. I hate scanlines. I guess it all depends on which LCD you have.

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I looooooove scanlines.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

The part the always baffles me are all the people on these retro forums trying to play old systems on an LCD or other modern display. Why is it so hard to keep a CRT around?!

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New systems look worse on old displays, than old systems on new displays. Developers today pay little real attention making sure their games when played in SD on CRT show a comparable sharpness to how good pixel art did.

Heck due to choices like filters or 240p-to-480i conversion... Even seemingly direct ports of existing old games don't always look as razor crisp on a CRT with component/RGB, as the original console would output it under like conditions.

I never even see the scanlines on my CRTs, unless I tilt my head and look at it at a 90 degree angle... Otherwise, I have to get up real close to the TV and purposefully look for them.

Ultimately as a general rule I'm in favor of making games look how their creators drew and envisioned the work. Some level of dithering cannot be avoided without a loss in overall sharpness. If you filter it away too much, then any objects NOT dithered will suffer.

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Originally Posted by Guntz

I never even see the scanlines on my CRTs, unless I tilt my head and look at it at a 90 degree angle... Otherwise, I have to get up real close to the TV and purposefully look for them.

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I think it depends on the TV. Some seem to show scanlines more clearly than others. Just as an example, my old Magnavox CRT TV on which I had my consoles hooked up to before I got my Electrohome 27E510 had no visible scanlines, but on my 27E510, the scanlines are pretty thick, so you can see them quite easily (at least from within a few feet from the TV - the scanlines will most likely not be visible from very far away).