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How did they port the Genesis Sonic games to the Saturn in Sonic Jam? How did they get the FM soundtrack over also?
I'm curious about this after just watching it play, it seems like the original version (minus some differences). Does NOT seem emulated at all though.
They aren't emulated. The games were totally re-written for the Saturn.
Sonic Jams games are ports, not emulation. The Music is done as PCM. So basically they recorded the audio from the Genesis games and had them played back as PCM files. You can hear a dip in quality compared to the original Genesis versions and the fade-ins/fade-outs aren't as smooth. They simply end and the next bit starts. A good example to compare for that is the 2nd boss portion of Death Egg Zone Act 2 in Sonic and Knuckles. On the Genesis the Death Egg Zone music fades into the boss theme. On the Saturn the music stops instantly and the boss theme starts.
I think it would be neat if the people at Sonic Retro started reverse engineering the ports in Sonic Jam to start doing Saturn Sonic ROM hacks.
What good would that do if you still need a modchip to run custom games on the Saturn?Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
You could have a 2D Sonic game that goes beyond what the Genesis could do?
There's also the possibility of a flash cart using the cart slot.
They should have did color enhancements.
That would have been nice, to see the better color palettes used.
Sonic Jam was done to introduce newcomers to the Sonic games. There was an interview with Yuji Naka saying that after NiGHTS they were getting letters from kids in Japan asking what Sonic was and why they were called Sonic Team. So they did Sonic Jam to introduce that audience to what Sonic was. So it wasn't really there to enhance and show the difference between the Saturn and the Genesis like Super Mario All Stars did with the SNES and NES. It was more to provide a convenient compilation with a bunch of bonus material and historical info on Sonic.
So that's probably why they didn't dramatically overhaul the graphics. And honestly I'm fine with that. If I want to play Sonic 3, I want it to look and sound like Sonic 3, not a pretty approximation.
The hell with that cop out answer Sega was just being lazy fucks. Look at how Nintendo did Mario All-Stars. Sega could've reworked all of the Genesis games to take full advantage of the Saturn capablilities.
In theory that sounds cool but what could you do to 2D Sonic that isn't already doable on the Genesis? That Omochao hack is already super impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Somebody should come up with a cart slot replacement first, otherwise there won't be many Saturns capable of using the flash cart.Quote:
There's also the possibility of a flash cart using the cart slot.
Sonic Team wasn't being lazy, they were simply busy with other things at the time like Burning Rangers and Sonic Adventure. Honestly I don't really like Super Mario All-Stars. I find the new graphics and music to be too cartoony and childish. I'd rather play the NES originals.
Lots of pretty transparencies, larger sprites, scaling, rotation, and pretty VDP2 affects. I'd imagine the Saturn could probably pull off something at least on par with Sonic Rush.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
I enjoyed Mario all-stars. The improved graphics were quite nice.
However, the GBA re-releases? Blehh. The extra voices are just so obnoxious. Drains all the fun out of SMB2, when your character rattles off the same tired phrase EVERY time you pick something up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
This release fails because it doesn't have Sonic CD. The best 2D sonic.
Not enough space on the disc.
Sonic CD wouldn't have fit on the disc. It would have most likely needed it's own separate disc to be included. The release certainly doesn't fail for not having it. Would it have been nice to have? Sure. But that doesn't stop Sonic Jam from being the best Genesis Sonic Compilation to date.
Mario All-Stars ruined all the games. SEGA instead offered quality games (higher quality than most of Mario All-Stars) plus bonus features lazy Nintendo could not even put together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Shocker
I do not see the point in raping games by 'enhancing' them.
Agreed, I didn't like Mario All-Stars at all. The graphical upgrade was not as appealing, and it has no bonus content. Sonic Jam has some cool stuff in it.
The only graphical improvement I was ok with in Mario All Stars was Mario 2. The first one and lost levels were ok with the added background layers, but the sprites and foregrounds just didn't look that great. Mario 2's music wasn't bad, but the rest all sounded god awful. And I'll take NES Mario 3 over SNES Mario 3 any day.
What the hell bonus content can you put in a fuckin 8 meg cart? And Sonic Cd only took up like 113 MBs of data on the CD. It could've easily been reworked to fit in Sonic Jam.
Sonic Jam is done as ports remember. It's not just the ROM on the disc. The data is uncompressed and arranged differently. The music alone takes up more space. Then you have the Sonic World content.
As for bonus content, there's all the arrange modes you can do in Sonic Jam. You can enable the Spin Dash in Sonic 1, you can change the difficulty which changes the layout of the game and levels. There's also the virtual manuals.
Regarding Sonic CD, the XBLA port is the best thus far. It was ported over using the Retro Engine. Which is a fan-made engine by Christian Whitehead of Sonic Retro. Not emulated one bit. :)
The only downside is the missing vocals in the Japanese Soundtrack.
I believe it was due to legal reasons.
I was talking about an 8 meg cart having bonus stuff. And the Sonic games simply take up 46 megs of data. No reason that SCD couldn't have been shoehorned in by actually optimizing the space and getting rid of some of the filler in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
You're assuming that the ports of the Sonic games in Sonic Jam take up the same amount of space as their Genesis counterparts. The audio alone is going to take up far more space because it's prerecorded PCM tracks as opposed to real time FM synth. Not to mention the Sonic World content probably takes up a decent amount of space as well.
How about a sound test? Or an arcade-perfect port of Donkey Kong? Or a colorized version of Super Mario Land? They could have used a 16-meg cart to facilitate extra stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Shocker
Sonic Jam takes up 525 MB. The Sonic CD data alone would bring it up to 638, giving you 12 MB for the soundtrack. Not happening.Quote:
And Sonic Cd only took up like 113 MBs of data on the CD. It could've easily been reworked to fit in Sonic Jam.
SNES Mario 3 is my favorite Mario game.
Sonic Jam would have been a great port if they hadn't messed with the way they ported the sound over. Some of the FX are not exactly right and the music doesn't sound as good. Though for what it is, it is quite a good port, they added a lot of nice extra features.
Now if only it wasn't a $60 game...
I'm saddened that none of you make note of the save feature in Super Mario All-Stars. That is a huge bonus feature! Mario 3 on NES, without the warp whistles, is an endurance test. Most people with an NES have probably never played most of Mario 3.
The music sounds fine to me, what I don't like (but can tolerate) is how the music always starts over from the beginning, where it would resume in the original versions (e.g. when getting Super Shoes). But yeah, the extras are what make it still worth owning today. Even if you have all of the originals, and/or one of the later compilations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
And I had no idea it was an expensive game. A long time ago I traded two VMUs plus the cost of shipping for it.
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by j_factor
There isn't enough space on the disc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Whatever, brah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Typical Nintendo, adding basic features later as 'new' features. There was clearly enough SPACE in the carts to add a save battery on NES.
You shouldn't compare Sonic Jam with Super Mario All Stars because All Stars doesn't matter that much, it was a bonus release as far as i'm concerned, unlike Jam which was the main Sonic game for Saturn. SNES already had its new 16-bit Super Mario World and Mario fans were happy. Just like N64 had its unique 3D next-generation Mario game. After that, they can make as many ports or spinoffs they want (the GBA and its shitty Mario ports is another story).
With Saturn, Sonic fans never got the next-gen Sonic they needed, all they got was what they already had at the price of a new game, with no improvements over the genesis versions and lower sound quality on top of that. SM All Stars had at least Snes quality graphics and sound, like them or not (and they already had SMW before that, lets not forget, which makes SM All stars a less significant release for Mario fans).
Anyway, Sonic Jam was only good for those who never played a Sonic game and had a Saturn but really, how many Saturn owners weren't Sega fans who already had played these games and how many people would care about a couple of old 16-bit games at the price of a Panzer Dragoon or Virtua Fighter 2 at the time? I don't remember "playing older games" being as popular back then as it is now (and even now ports of older games are cheaper than new releases) and i don't think anyone would buy a new expensive console for this kind of thing when they could buy a cheap Genesis.
Now, if they made the whole game based on the 3D hub parts it would be awesome. Or they could at least make a new Sonic 2D platform taking advantages of the remarkable 2D capabilities of the machine. They didn't and that was one of the reasons Saturn failed imo.
Yeah, I was waiting for a 2D Sonic game. One of the reasons I bought Saturn. I also expected to see a port of Knuckles Chaotix. And Sonic CD. Instead we got a port of 3D Blast.
Sonic Jam definitely should have been a launch title.
Yeah because music apparently takes up 500MBs of data LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulis
Sonic Jam does have improvements over the Genesis originals. You now have the spindash available in Sonic 1, you also have difficulty modes that modify the layouts of the levels. There's not much improvement to do graphically as the games all still look great on their own. People go on about the sound quality but honestly unless you are completely anal retentive and listen to your Genesis through a high end stereo system the dip in sound quality isn't going to be that noticeable.
Yes, Sonic Jam isn't a next gen Sonic game, but thats not what its intended to be. It's not even intended to be the main Sonic game on the Saturn as you claim. Sonic Adventure was intended to be the main Sonic game for the Saturn. Sonic Jam was to give players a taste of Next Gen Sonic with Sonic World and provide a nice trip down memory lane. It was also to introduce new people to the series. In Japan we all know the Saturn was more popular than the Mega Drive. What happened was after NiGHTS came out Sonic Team got letters from players asking what Sonic was and why they were called Sonic Team. So they released Sonic Jam for that audience.
Sonic Jam as it is takes up 525MB. Sonic CD's data alone is 113MB. That takes it up to 638MB. Since CDs at this time were 650MB, that's only 12MB left for CD quality audio. In short, it wont fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
You guys are forgetting that Sonic CD's Present and Future music, along with title screen, boss, are all CD audio which takes up a couple hundred more MB's of data.. Only the past music was using a wavetable MIDI type thing.
The Past tracks are PCM.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
Oh big whopdee fuckin doo the spin dash is now in Sonic 1 LOL. How about being able to play as Tails and Knuckes in Sonic 1? And the games look fine on there own? Gimme a break in one thread you'll say that the Saturn was a 2D powerhouse. I'll be damned that Saturn couldn't make these games look a helluva lot better. And wher is this ST got letters from players asking what Sonic was that sounds like the shittiest lie if I ever heard one.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
It was in an interview with Yuji Naka:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Yuji_Naka...28July_1997%29
http://info.sonicretro.org/images/4/..._Issue2_02.jpg