Genesis RPGs: Your thoughts?

So give me your individual commentary of every Genesis/Megadrive RPG you've played.

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Beggar Prince: I never played the english version of this game and did not obtain a copy while it was still in print, but I quite enjoyed this game even in Chinese. The battle system is unique and not having to worry about equipping weapons and armor at a shop was a relief. I was surprised when I saw this game getting panned not long after it's release, as I expected the reception to be a little warmer. It's also one of the only -- although loosely -- video game adaptations of the Prince and the Pauper, which is a favorite book of mine.

Crusader of Centy/Soleil: Loved this game and played it to death. Still one of my favorites, I went and uncovered almost every secret I could find without the use of a walktrough back in the day. The animal system was unique, and the story surprisingly decent for an action-RPG. The european version did a big favor to the game by polishing the script, and should be commended. I even enjoyed this game more than Link to the Past. The only problem is that it's criminally underrated!

Fatal Labyrinth: One of the only Genesis roguelikes (unless you count Toejam & Earl which is loosely inspired by the genre) the simplicity is addictive, and doesn't deviate too far from the traditional Rogue formula which I must say I enjoy.

Landstalker: Great game, kind of like Genesis's answer to Equinox on SNES. Isometric controls in an action-RPG make it a little tricky but still a good game.

Light Crusader: Isometric like Landstalker but much more free-spirited, this game is really no worse than any other treasure game and it was nice to see them not only branching into the RPG genre but with a western graphical style to boot! Not bad.

Rings of Power: A decent RPG that has its flaws but not as bad as some say. Most notable are the graphics which are actually quite amusing for their kitsch value, but this game has some merits such as it's open-endedness which unfortunately introduces another notable flaw, that is the game's speed and performance which proved too much for the considerably powerful Genesis. Too bad the PC version was never released, as the programmer of this game told me in an e-mail that it ran great on that system. Still, worth trying to get into if you can handle it.

Super Hydlide: Another game that gets unfairly panned. This one was much better than its predecessors by far. Not much else to say as it is somewhat standard RPG fare but definately not an awful game.

Wonderboy in Monster World: What can I say? I love the entire Wonderboy series and this one is probably one of the best on Genesis, only beaten by Monster World IV.

Ys 3: I like the Ys series. This was challenging but not exactly the best RPG I have played on Genesis so far. Genesis version is sometimes considered better than the SNES one but I've never compared.

I find your lack of PS IV disturbing.

Why is this in insert coin?

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

I find your lack of PS IV disturbing.

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My thoughts exactly, please delete this thread and start again

Landstalker is one of my favorite Genesis games. Such a joy and very fun to play. The Isometric controls are a pain yeah but I dont care because this game rules.

The Shining Force games and Shining in the Darkness, along with Phantasy Star III, are the most memorable Genesis RPGs for me.

Honestly I never finished Beggar Prince. I thought it was cool at first, but I soon grew bored with it. My biggest issue was that your magic never gets more powerful as your character levels. I mean that your old spells never increase in strength because there doesn't seem to be a character stat that determines how powerful your magic is. So most of your magic becomes fairly useless as the game progresses, which really limits the battles to "press A to attack" over and over again. It's not the end of the world, but I just lost interest after a while. I should replay it at some point, but just haven't felt the urge to do so yet.

ACTION RPGs = Bleh. None of these does anything for me. Oasis looks superb at least. Landstalker is the one I might've enjoyed or at finished anyway had I bought it when it came out but the art style's painful and I wish they'd let him keep the nose I saw in adverts and on the box, he looks piggish with that little snout. Light Crusader is sterile. Soleil is boring despite the animal friends which should be a great strength. Sword of Vermilion also belongs to this category due to its crappy real time combat 'system' which is too bad since the 1stP perspective worked well for adventuring and the towns were sufficiently attractive. The Monsterworld games are utterly unappealing. I'd rather yawn through Peter Pan and the Pirates.

Fatal Labyrinth = God no.
Sorcerer's Kingdom = Painful in every way from the eyebleeding graphics to the ground-up triteness.
Blue Almanac/Star Odyssey = Fairly good combat system and combat graphics don't compensate for the general inertia and the lack of charming towns.
D&D Eternal Sun = Decent lightweight dungeon crawler. Just too short.
Might & Magic Gates = Large, enterprising, brutal game. I failed to discover whatever trick needs to be exploited to deal with some of the later instant-kill monsters but it was entertaining enough whilst my interest lasted.
Madou Monogatari = Couldn't get into this 1stP dungeon crawler as the framerate seems to fly, making movement jerky and disorienting.
Traysia = Snore.
Shining in the Darkness = Overwhelmingly generic with a very offputting graphical style and no music to speak of.
Shining Force = Despite its relation to Shining in the Darkness this game does everything right, from the storybook presentation to the optional characters and breakable items. Too bad money's not tighter, but still. One of the best.
Shining Force 2 = Deeper and longer than the first but less charming and heavy handedly kiddy at times.
Phantasy Star II = My favourite RPG. Which, in strictly factual terms, makes it the best ever the world over. The US version is superior to the JP owing to the latter's obtrusive percussion.
Phantasy Star III = Several missteps mar a fundamentally good game. These being a shortage of dungeon music (# of tracks and their very short length), recycled dungeon tiles, a lack of combat animation including seeing the the character sprites, poor enemy graphics, painful combat music (like somewhat firing up a lawnmower inside one's speaker), heavily recycled town tiles (which shows far more in these naturalistic towns than in PSII's futurism), a waste of the generations concept, and a crippling mere two save slots. Nonetheless it has several great tunes, nice looking towns, an interesting magic system, and a fairly interesting world to explore. Still one of the MD's top RPGs.
Phantasy Star IV = Phantasy Star II Lite. It just lacks content, making the game rush by, almost like Dragon Warriors 1 and 2. Pretty much as soon as one enters a dungeon it's over and one's on to the next. Good game otherwise.

These are the ones I've played enough to opine upon. I've beaten all of them except FL, SH and SO. (EDIT: Beat all of them in the ensuing months after this post.)

Beggar Prince - there's a lot to like and I didn't get hit with any of the game-breaking bugs, but combat gets drawn-out and repetitive and the random encounter rate is much too high
Exile - one of the worst and most overrated games I've played on the Genesis; shallow, pretentious, and short ("and the portions are too small!"), with a terrible translation and little redeeming value
Faery Tale Adventure - vast open-world adventure that isn't quite as deep as it first seems but really feels like exploring a world, vs. the concierge-and-gift-shop experience that most games offer
Fatal Labyrinth - whenever I pull this roguelike out I genuinely enjoy it at first, but always seem to lose interest around the halfway point
Landstalker - isometric RPG made with a great deal of TLC, almost a masterpiece but a few small flaws get in the way
Legend of Wukong - not as bad as some would have it; just a fairly standard RPG with a few nice touches and very repetitive gameplay
Light Crusader - one of my favorites, despite its flaws; brilliant music, wildly uneven difficulty curve, nice sense of humor
Shining in the Darkness - I found this a pleasure to play but it's definitely "work" in some degree, since mapping it out on graph paper is an absolute must
Sorcerer's Kingdom - short, shallow, painless but forgettable (heh, I didn't notice when I wrote "painless" that StarMist had written "painful")
Star Odyssey - ate my save game right before the final boss, which left a sour taste, but I'm replaying it now; ridiculous encounter rate that really makes the game less fun & atmospheric, which is a shame since otherwise it's a decent, even very good (but not great) early 1990s RPG
Super Hydlide - unorthodox and unattractive, with several gameplay quirks (weight, food, time cycles) that put off most players, but I personally was having a blast until I screwed myself over near the end; deeply flawed and frustrating, but I plan on replaying it, which says something
Sword of Vermilion - I'm bewildered by people who like this game; excessive encounter rate, cookie-cutter plot, dull combat, poorly handled visuals, confusing and buggy gameplay, and the soundtrack isn't enough to salvage it
Warrior of Rome - sits on the border between a tactical RPG and a real-time strategy/war game; pretty terrible

Though I do enjoy the Genesis' RPGs (other than Fatal Labrynth), I prefer the ones on the SNES. The Genesis is better suited for arcade games imo.

Sorry for the mistake, folks.
(Mods/Admins, please move this thread to the the Genesis forum, thanks!)

Believe it or not, I never played PSIV and have only played a little of the others. Same with the Shining series (except Shining in the Darkness) for various personal reasons, but, I hope to remedy that soon.

The problem with this thread is that I've played almost every RPG for the system that's in English. Sigh...

Arcus Odyssey - It's isometric Gauntlet with RPG stuff. I like it, but it does get a little repetitive, and visually it's pretty drab. Great soundtrack though. I really wish the sequels were translated.

Beggar Prince - The battle system is unique, but the execution is not quite great. Definitely a worthwhile game, just not tops.

Beyond Oasis - Essentially standard action-RPG fare, but really well executed. I dig the "Arabian" theme, and the spell system. The sequel is better though.

Centuron: Defender of Rome - This game isn't usually considered an RPG, but it feels like one to me. It's kind of like Pirates! in that there's a lot of different aspects to the game. It's usually compared to Defender of the Crown, because it was made by the same guy, but I think this game has its own feel. Worth playing.

Crusader of Centy - Loved it. I think calling this game a Zelda clone does it a disservice. It's similar, but it's different in a lot of ways too. Also I'm not really sure if this game qualifies as an RPG, though it does say RPG on the box.

Exile - I haven't played this on Genesis, but I liked the Amiga version. ;) ...But seriously, I love this game for Turbo CD. Never saw a need to try the Genesis port, which is surely not as good.

Faery Tale Adventure - Some people really rag on this game, but I thought it was decent enough. The game is massive, and though it doesn't build up to anything great, it's solid. It's very much a product of a certain "scene" (computer RPGs from around 1985 to around 1990), from which there are better games, which just makes me wish more of those games were ported to Genesis. Why isn't Pool of Radiance on Genesis instead of NES?

Fatal Labyrinth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZHwxIL9oYo

Gauntlet IV - I'm not a big fan of Gauntlet, but Quest Mode turns it into Dungeon Explorer, and that's a very good thing.

The Immortal - I've never been able to get very far in this. I feel like I would like it if I could just progress. Someday I'll really sit down with it and force myself through it.

King's Bounty - Not bad, but the same game is on PS2 under the title Heroes of Might & Magic: Quest for the Dragon Bone Staff. I haven't played it, but I imagine it's better, especially since King's Bounty has such poor graphics/sound.

LandStalker - A true gem of the Genesis. I love this game, and the games it spawned (Dark Savior, Alundra). Much better than Equinox IMO. :p

Legend of Wukong - Pretty run of the mill. Not bad, but not great either. Doesn't stand out.

Light Crusader - Not as good as the game it imitates, but I still liked it quite a bit. Play LandStalker first, and if you crave more (as I did), give this one a shot.

Might & Magic: Gates to Another World - I've yet to beat this game, but I found it a substantial improvement over the original Might & Magic (yet I wish that was available for Genesis as well). Difficult, but rewarding. I liked Isles of Terra even more, but I've had a hell of a time trying to find the English Turbo CD version.

Phantasy Star II - The setting and plot are still impressive. It's just a bit too grind-y and the script could've used a little work. Still, it's definitely essential.

Phantasy Star III - The black sheep of the series, but it's still worth playing. The generational aspect was pretty innovative, and Squaresoft copied it a few times.

Phantasy Star IV - One of the best RPGs ever made, this one's a joy from start to finish. The characters, plot, setting, pacing, graphics, sound, and battle system are all fantastic. The game's only major flaw is that there's a few unclear abilities (what does "Brose" do?).

Pier Solar - This doesn't feel like a "fan game" at all. While it's not flawless, it is certainly great, and it was worth the wait. I'm still a little miffed about the soundtrack thing though. If this had come out in 1994, it'd be ranked as one of the best RPGs of its time.

Pirates! Gold - I don't know why it doesn't get talked about more, but it's a masterpiece. Pirates! was one of my favorite games for C64, and Gold makes several improvements. There is almost unlimited replay value due to how open-ended and multifaceted the gameplay is, not to mention that certain things are randomized. This was also released on CD32, but I have no idea how good that version is.

Rings of Power - It's slow and just reeks low-budget. However, I do like the magic system. Haven't gotten very far in this one.

Shadowrun - The first time I played it I didn't get anywhere, but when I tried it again it just clicked. Once the game gets going, it becomes extremely addictive. The combat system is one of the best and deepest of any action-RPG ever, the setting is brilliantly executed, and the "Matrix" thing is really well-done and adds a whole layer to the game. It's non-linear, but there's always stuff to do, with no aimless wandering. Really, I can't recommend Shadowrun enough.

Shining Force - Not the first strategy-RPG, but the first great one. Solid in every aspect.

Shining Force II - An improvement on its great predecessor. Still stands as one of the best strategy-RPGs ever.

Shining in the Darkness - It's Dungeon Master mixed with JRPG aspects. I liked it a lot.

Sorcerer's Kingdom - I actually really liked certain aspects of this, mainly things to do with the combat. The graphics, sound, story, and setting all suck. Tolerable.

StarFlight and Star Control - These two games are pretty similar, and they're both very good. They can be massive time sinks though. I think I like StarFlight a little more.

Super Hydlide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZHwxIL9oYo

Sword of Vermilion - This game is just okay. Very repetitive, but other than that not horrible in any particular way.

TechnoClash - What brings this game down for me is the partner AI. It's bad enough that they could've just excised the partner aspect of the game and it would've been better off. Other than that it's a pretty good game, and it's worth playing in spite of this flaw.

Traysia - The combat reminds me of Ultima IV, though the overall game certainly does not. I like the combat, but the rest of the game is very by-the-numbers. It's tolerable, but only just.

Warriors of the Eternal Sun - I avoided this game for years, but I ended up surprised by how much I liked it. It may not be as good as Eye of the Beholder, but it's still a very engaging RPG.

Warsong - This game is very good, but purely for the gameplay. The story and presentation did nothing for me.

Wonder Boy in Monster World - I'm a little hesitant to call this an RPG, but everyone else is doing it. Is Chiki Chiki Boys an RPG too? Anyway, regardless of its RPG status, this is one of my favorites. It's the only game in the series that feels like "more of the same" compared to its predecessor (Dragon's Trap/Curse), but since its predecessor is one of the best games of all time, that's not a bad thing at all. I like to think of the two as being two halves of one whole.

Ys III: Wanderers from Ys - Fantastic game. I prefer the Turbo version, but this version is very respectable as well. I wish there were more side-scrolling action-RPGs like this.

Overall, I think the Genesis has a very good selection of RPGs. Maybe not as good as SNES, and certainly not as good as PSX, but still very respectable and better than most systems.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

Phantasy Star IV {{...}}The game's only major flaw is that there's a few unclear abilities (what does "Brose" do?).

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Brose is a random percentile instant kill against robots, originally Josh Kain's ability from PSII.

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Originally Posted by StarMist

Brose is a random percentile instant kill against robots, originally Josh Kain's ability from PSII.

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Thanks, but I know that now. :) I just didn't know that when I first played the game, and the game certainly doesn't make it clear.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

Shadowrun - The first time I played it I didn't get anywhere, but when I tried it again it just clicked. Once the game gets going, it becomes extremely addictive. The combat system is one of the best and deepest of any action-RPG ever, the setting is brilliantly executed, and the "Matrix" thing is really well-done and adds a whole layer to the game. It's non-linear, but there's always stuff to do, with no aimless wandering. Really, I can't recommend Shadowrun enough.

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Agreed. This game is awesome.

I haven't finished any Genesis RPGs (or action-RPGs), so I can only say impressions of what is mostly just a few hours of play each, but that said, some thoughts...

Topdown/Isometric Action-RPGs or Zelda clones
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Beyond Oasis - Very good game! Beyond Oasis has quite impressive graphics and some pretty fun, if blatantly inspired by Zelda and the Mana games, gameplay. Good game for sure; I really should have played this more and finished it, I know I got a good way in. I've heard it's somewhat short.

Crusader of Centy - Good Zelda clone. The graphics and gameplay are better than I was expecting in this one; based on screenshots I didn't think it'd be quite as good as it is when I got it (was lucky, found a cheap loose cart copy a while ago). The story's odd and I don't know if I like it, but at least it is original. The gameplay's solid Zelda stuff and the graphics are quite nice. This looks about as much like LttP as you can probably do on the Genesis. Seems pretty good.

Landstalker - This one's my favorite Genesis action-RPG. The game's a great Zelda-style game, except isometric instead of top-down and with RPG elements like RPG towns, a level system, and such. Also you mostly just fight with your sword, instead of getting lots of additional items. And, it's isometric too. Still, I definitely think that this is closer to Zelda than anything else. I guess this is the isometric counterpart to Secret of Mana on SNES. I like this more than that game, though... Landstalker's very good. The game does have some difficult isometric elements, but I got used to it with time. The very good graphics and art design help too. The story's passably average, but it's nothing special. The gameplay is what's best here. I like the dungeons in this game. I also like that some have word puzzles and such; this game isn't just about killing things and pushing blocks. I like this a lot, I keep meaning to go back and get farther... I've gotten a decent way in, but I think there's still quite a ways to go.

Light Crusader - Isometric action-RPG dungeon crawler, like Solstice or things like that. It's interesting that this Treasure game has Western-style art, but the gameplay's fairly average for the genre I think. I remember getting to the second floor, putting it down, and never returning. It has the usual annoying jumping puzzles isometric games like this always do. This is probably my least favorite of the four top-down or isometric action-RPGs I have for the Genesis. Still though, okay game.

Sword of Vermillion - Um, this really is its own category, with top-down, side-scrolling, and first-person elements, but anyway, overall it's an okay game as far as I saw it. It's definitely generic and doesn't hold my interest for all that long, but it's not a bad game either. I could see playing it more and getting farther, though the dungeons definitely need maps of some kind, after the first one that is... they're not simple, and with the limited light you have, you have to be very careful to not get lost! Graphics are early-Genesis stuff.

Topdown Multiplayer Action-RPGs
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Arcus Odyssey - Isometric Gauntlet, pretty much, except only two player instead of four like Gauntlet IV is. It's a pretty good game. It's got four characters to choose from, big levels to explore, and plenty of fun. The game's one problem is that the levels are very large, and it is too easy to get lost. This can lead to a lot of frustration as I try to figure out where in the world the way forward is. Other than that it's good, but that is an issue with this one.

Gauntlet IV - Gauntlet IV is a pretty good Gauntlet game. I definitely like it. It's got okay graphics, and some interesting game mechanics -- I think that this was the first Gauntlet game with distinct, themed worlds, a shop between levels, and a hub world where you can save your progress. These are all things that Gauntlet Legends would return to with much greater effect, but it started here. There are two negatives about Gauntlet IV, though. First, the game does have classic Gauntlet health drain, which makes the game much tougher than Legends and beyond, which thankfully finally ditch that arcade relic that I think doesn't fit nearly as well in a home game than it does in an arcade one where you can restore health with a quarter, instead of through the much more limited means games like this allow. Also, the passwords are absolutely ludicrously long. You have two passwords, one for your character and the second for your progress in the current world. Between the two, you're looking at a total of about 40 characters of password to write down. I think this game has the longest passwords of any game I own, excepting only Zelda OoA/S and Golden Sun's game 1 to game 2 game-clear passwords, and those you only need once, not every time you play the game. The long passwords are the main reason I haven't played this game more despite how much I love the Gauntlet franchise; they're just too long to deal with, unfortunately.


Sidescrolling Action-RPGs
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Wonder Boy in Monster World - This is another fantastic game... it has a few frustrating elements, but I got a good ways into it and was overall really liking the game. I forget why I stopped... the graphics and gameplay are certainly great.

Monster World IV - I have this for Wii VC (in English of course), but close enough. Monster World IV is more linear than the previous game, but the graphics are even better and overall it's just as good. Beautiful game, and I like the new character and different, Arabian setting, too.

Cadash - I wish you could save your progress in this game... it's such a hard game, and with limited continues and no saving it's brutal, particularly at the start. This game's difficulty curve is seriously broken; games shouldn't be harder in their first level than in the second, but this one is! Still, if you grind a lot, it is playable, and the game can be fun sometimes. I do miss the two other characters, though; the two in this game are the less interesting of the four from the original.

Turnbased RPGs - I've never been much of a fan of 8 or 16 bit Japanese turnbased RPGs...
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Pier Solar - I mostly liked the hours I've spent with Pier Solar, but it's been a while since I played it. I wish they'd used visible enemies instead of random battles, definitely, but otherwise it seems alright; a little slow, but good. The CD soundtrack disc is great, and the graphics certainly push the Genesis. Story's pretty generic early on, however. Overall though, good game.

Phantasy Star II - Grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, depressing story scene, return to grinding for the next few hours, then see the next bit of bleak and depressing story. Yeah, this one wore me down very quickly... I gave up on it after a couple of hours, and doubt I'll be back. The story's a bit overly tragic, and I rarely like having to do vast amounts of grind like you do in this game. I want to just be able to go where I'm going, not have to spend hours grinding in between first. And PSII's tough, too; it's not hard at all to die. The graphics aren't great, but are fine for a very early Genesis title.

Phantasy Star IV - The graphics here are much, much improved over PS II, as is the encounter rate, but the story's just about as bleak and depressing... I can't force myself to actually play this one much. Also, I expect that once you get into it you eventually run into mountains of grind, too.

Shining in the Darkness - Shining in the Darkness is a first-person RPG. I wanted to try this one, so I printed off a map of the first floor of the dungeon; it was that or map it myself on graph paper, and I used the internet one. The game's basically all grind. Go in, grind a bit, retreat, and repeat. Do this for some time and eventually I was strong enough to not die more than a few feet in. Yeah, this game is VERY tedious. The graphics are nice though, and the gameplay's okay for the genre. Combat is simple. I eventually managed to persevere through that first major boss and get my second party member (I'd wanted to get Pyra in the party, because I've played TimeStalkers and wanted to see her in this game too), but haven't played again since. If I want a grind-heavy dungeon crawler, this game isn't bad and I may try it again sometime, but I'd much rather play the Etrian Odyssey games on the DS. (Yes, I liked those, mostly.)


(I also have Shadowrun, but haven't played it.)

Shining Force and Shining Force II are strategy games, not RPGs, I think (good games, but I haven't played all that much of either of them), and Pirates! Gold is a strategy/action/sim thing (haven't played a lot of it; I did enjoy the 2004 remake, but it got repetitive after a while), so those would not go in this genre (I do have those three games, but they shouldn't really be on an RPG list. I also have TechnoClash. It's a good but quite challenging game, but I don't think it's an RPG. Oh, and finally, I have Ys III for SNES. I didn't get too far into it, but the grinding seemed tedious. Go in, fight, return to dungeon entrance to heal, repeat over and over and over... it's not terrible, but got old fast. All Ys games are grindey of course, but I do think Ys 1 is a better game than this. Graphics are small, but okay for their (small) size.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Shining Force and Shining Force II are strategy games, not RPGs

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If anything, Shining Force is a tactics game, not a strategy game. Either way, that doesn't make it not an RPG. A game can be an RPG and also something else. Final Lap Twin is an RPG and a racing game, World Court Tennis is an RPG and a tennis game, Car Battler Joe is an RPG and a vehicular combat game, and so on. I'm curious why you throw out Shining Force but not LandStalker ("LandStalker is an action game, not an RPG").

You're right, Zelda-alikes are also sketchy inclusions on an RPG list unless they have experience-based level-up systems. As for your other point, I'd say that tactics games are strategy games, generally.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

You're right, Zelda-alikes are also sketchy inclusions on an RPG list unless they have experience-based level-up systems. As for your other point, I'd say that tactics games are strategy games, generally.

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Okay. But Shining Force does have an experience-based level-up system. Really, its gameplay is very "RPG". It doesn't have resource management or anything like that. The only thing that even causes it to be labeled strategy-RPG instead of just RPG is the fact that battles take place on a large grid.

You don't have to grind in Phantasy Star IV at all, really. It's a pretty easy game and level ups come pretty frequently.

I wouldn't consider the story line especially bleak, either, but then I've played a lot of JRPGs and melodrama is pretty much that genre's bread and butter.

Okay, so I added "or Zelda clones" to my first category, to cover why some of those are included.

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

You don't have to grind in Phantasy Star IV at all, really. It's a pretty easy game and level ups come pretty frequently.

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Well, maybe, but I've gotten very skeptical of such claims over time... people say this "you don't have to grind, really!" stuff about all kinds of old RPGs which I would certainly say have vast amounts of grind. So what do you mean, if you just go through the game following the quests, you won't have to constantly stop and level for some time before moving forward, like you have to do in most 8-bit RPGs and a whole lot of 16-bit ones?

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I wouldn't consider the story line especially bleak, either, but then I've played a lot of JRPGs and melodrama is pretty much that genre's bread and butter.

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Alis dying slowly and painfully is something that I, at least, would call depressing... but yes, from what I've read of the rest of it, the ending at least isn't as horrifically depressing as PSII's sounds.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

Okay. But Shining Force does have an experience-based level-up system. Really, its gameplay is very "RPG". It doesn't have resource management or anything like that. The only thing that even causes it to be labeled strategy-RPG instead of just RPG is the fact that battles take place on a large grid.

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Well, you mean because of how you run around, RPG-style, in RJRPG towns/overworlds? That is true, you do do that. Shining Force I and II are perhaps stylistically closer to being RPGs than most "strategy-RPGs" are; most of them I think are clearcut strategy games first, from Final Fantasy Tactics to Fire Emblem. But yeah, it is true that the Genesis Shining Force games have that RPG-style world exploration element. I do think of the King's Bounty series (that is, the newer ones too, not just the old Genesis one) as RPGs because of the RPG overworld and levelling systems, compared to the strategy game series Heroes of Might & Magic that's a better comparison for a FFT or something in being a strategy game with RPG elements but clearly something that is strategy at its core. Still, most of Shining Force is done in preset, strategic battles... maybe they are RPGs, but it's a borderline case. It's close.

The GG/SCD games, though, I would consider more clearly strategy. No JRPG overworld there.

There definitely is a huge area of overlap between strategy games and RPGs, because the two come from the same roots (both descend from wargames, after all), but I do think that you can generally separate the two, and I think that Japanese designations put FAR too many games into the RPG genre that really are strategy games (like, well, FFT and such).

What about games like Ultima IV? To me, Shining Force is the same, the battle grid is just larger.

I don't know if I've even played an hour of Ultima, ever. I got a collection with Ultima 1 and Ultima Underworld 1 in it in '99 or '00 or so, but didn't play much at all of them. I know I didn't play U1 long enough to get into a dungeon. As for UU1... I played that a little, but I didn't get far. I didn't really play Origin games back in the '90s; I didn't play stuff like Wing Commander either. I have a decent number of '90s PC games I bought new, but I didn't buy any Origin titles back then.

As for RPGs in general, I didn't play those often then either. Apart from Quest for Glory 1 (VGA), which I'd played back in the early '90s and loved,it was really Baldur's Gate (got in '99) that got me into RPGs (or, later on, for console RPGs or action-RPGs, Final Fantasy Adventure, which I got in '99 too, and then Skies of Arcadia, which I didn't buy until later, but first played in late '00). So yeah, I don't know. (Oh, that's not counting Zelda of course. I did get LA in '94 and OoT in '99, for ones I owned in the '90s, and had played Zelda 1 various times in the early '90s on the NES.)

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Originally Posted by 5233

Not much else to say as it is somewhat standard RPG

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Super Hydlide, "standard RPG" ?!
You have clock system, food system, weight system, moral system...in 1989 ! (In 1987 to be precise, because it's only a port of Hydlide 3)

*disregarding the "XXX is not an RPG"-discussion which happens to every RPG thread*

Arcus Odyssey - The intro is awesome. The rest of the game is not. Still an OK Gauntlet-style game for as long as it lasts. 2 player option, very good.
Barver Battle Saga - OK, ripped content alert. But a fine generic game anyway. Awesome graphics. Story is like Final Fantasy VI in a nutshell.
Beggar Prince - Very fun to play, feels so different and has great atmosphere. Bugs and some boring sections bring it down a bit though.
Dungeons & Dragons: Warriors of the Eternal Sun - Haven't played this western RPG very much yet, but I will some day. Doesn't seem very good to me.
Exile - Sidescrolling action-RPG. If they took a bit of time to translate the story properly, designed the levels better and upped the difficulty by a few notches, this might have been a very good game. Now it's just mediocre.
Gauntlet IV - The quest mode is a very fun "mini-RPG" with five dungeons. Played this with my friend, makes it even better. Awesome music.
King Colossus - Great game, "roman" style I think. Action-RPG with good story-telling and nice audiovisuals, perhaps they are repeated a bit too much though.
Landstalker - It's a classic! Isometric action-RPG of the best kind. Lots of fun puzzles and dungeons, very good aesthetics.
Langrisser II - See the review on this site: http://www.sega-16.com/2011/04/langrisser-ii/
Legend of Wukong - This game is so broken and repetitive, yet there was something that kept me playing it until the end.
Light Crusader - Like Landstalker, but more "western" aesthetics. Has some bugs but is pretty awesome anyway. Too short though.
Monster World IV - Less RPG and more platformer compared to the prequel, but a very fine game anyway. Looks fantastic.
Phantasy Star II - To be the first RPG on the system, it does its job well done. I wish the story was better told and characters more developed. But it's fun to play and I enjoy the aesthetics, except the blue grid battle background.
Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom - Quite an interesting generation concept with very lacking presentation, which does have a few highlights here and there though.
Phantasy Star IV - The best game evar.
Pier Solar and the Great Architects - I worked on it for over 3 years and am quite pleased with the result :).
Shining in the Darkness - A favourite. So much atmosphere and very addicting. Dungeon-crawling with medieval fantasy feel.
Shining Force - A very good strategy-RPG. If you don't like strategy games though, don't feel put off, as this one feels more like a traditional RPG with many characters.
Shining Force II - Like the prequel, but better in every aspect.
Soleil - I didn't enjoy this Zelda-style game very much. Graphics and sound didn't appeal to me and the story didn't catch me until the very end. Gameplay is OK I guess. Need to try it again.
Star Odyssey - Looks very primitive and requires heavy grinding, but in the end a good game if you can see it for what it is.
Story of Thor - Amazing sound production, although the composition is a bit lacking. The game itself is fun, but there is something missing, I feel. Maybe a better and longer story. Although it's 24 megs, you can beat it in less than 10 hours.
Super Hydlide - Awful graphics and very clunky, but the many innovative ideas kept me going and in the end I'd consider it a worthy purchase if you can see through the bad parts and focus on the good stuff.
Sword of Vermilion - A mediocre game, but enjoyable nontheless and the music kicks ass. Worth a playthrough.
Vixen 357 - Strategy-RPG from the folks of Langrisser/Warsong fame. Like a mix between those and Shining Force, but with mechs. Quite a good game, but not as deep as Langrisser II. Could be a lot better with more of everything, to say so.
Warsong - The prequel to Langrisser II is a very addicting game, despite its primitive presentation.
Wonder Boy in Monster World - A very fun sidescrolling action-RPG with its own "cutesy" style. So don't expect anything deep here, and the game isn't long, but still very well worth a purchase.
Ys III: Wanderers from Ys - Cool sidescrolling action-RPG with awesome music. Quite short but enjoyable from beginning to end.

I quite like Vixen 357. I wish there were a translation of it.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Well, maybe, but I've gotten very skeptical of such claims over time... people say this "you don't have to grind, really!" stuff about all kinds of old RPGs which I would certainly say have vast amounts of grind. So what do you mean, if you just go through the game following the quests, you won't have to constantly stop and level for some time before moving forward, like you have to do in most 8-bit RPGs and a whole lot of 16-bit ones?

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There is no "grind" in PSIV, at all. Unless you choose to do so, there's never any reason for it. Just going through the game and fighting most encounters will give you a significant amount of experience to charge through. It's a really easy game, comparable to Final Fantasy III/VI in that regard.

You don't need to grind in most games if your strategy is any good...

I agree with Zebbe. I'm no RPG nut, but everything I have played levels my characters up in the process of exploration more than adequately. Running from fights is the biggest problem I have run into with no being leveled up.

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

There is no "grind" in PSIV, at all. Unless you choose to do so, there's never any reason for it. Just going through the game and fighting most encounters will give you a significant amount of experience to charge through. It's a really easy game, comparable to Final Fantasy III/VI in that regard.

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You're implying that increased grinding = increased difficulty...

This is simply false. The amount of grinding required has no bearing on a game's difficulty. It merely skews ones perception of it. Difficulty is derrived from the strategic skill required to win any particular encounter regardless of level.

Hell, even a super grindy game can become extremely easy/dull for anyone who excessively grinds, perhaps to purchase the next set of equipment (looking at you PSII and Dragon Warrior), and increases their level far beyond the enemy's.

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

There is no "grind" in PSIV, at all. Unless you choose to do so, there's never any reason for it. Just going through the game and fighting most encounters will give you a significant amount of experience to charge through. It's a really easy game, comparable to Final Fantasy III/VI in that regard.

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I usually grind a bit when I get to the Air Castle, there's a bit of a jump in enemy difficulty there. But yes, it's definitely minimal grind for a JRPG. FF 3/6 has more grinding in it.

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Originally Posted by SpaceFlea

You're implying that increased grinding = increased difficulty...

This is simply false. The amount of grinding required has no bearing on a game's difficulty. It merely skews ones perception of it. Difficulty is derrived from the strategic skill required to win any particular encounter regardless of level.

Hell, even a super grindy game can become extremely easy/dull for anyone who excessively grinds, perhaps to purchase the next set of equipment (looking at you PSII and Dragon Warrior), and increases their level far beyond the enemy's.

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That's not exactly what I was trying to say. In most JRPGs, any wall of "difficulty" can be overcome with some amount of grinding. It's more of a question of tedium than actual difficulty; how many enemies you can kill and levels you can gain before you get bored. Obviously there's nothing difficult about fighting tons of random encounters, it's more of an endurance test.

Anyway, what I was trying to say is that even by JRPG standards, PSIV is a very easy ("fast" might be a better word, there's no downtime and you can more or less breeze through it as quickly as you like) game. Grinding is even more unnecessary than it is in most games.

Here's my take on the situation.

Phantasy Star IV: Unquestionably the best RPG on the system, if not the best 16 bit RPG ever made. If you have a Genesis you owe it to yourself to play this.
Pier Solar: The second best RPG on the system. It's not perfect like PSIV, but it's damn close, plus it looks really good. Awesome story, graphics, sound... basically everything. It just falls short in the world exploration and magic department, it could've done with more of that and less of the mode 7 stuff, but whatever, this is another must have for the Genesis owner.
Shadowrun: Awesome awesome, awesome cyberpunk rpg that will keep you entertained for hours, it's only real downfall is how short it is. It ends just when you're ready for another serving.
Brave Battle Saga Legend of the Magic Warrior: Despite being made by Chinese pirates I'd say this is the fourth best rpg on the system. It's basically a collage of stolen content from licensed games, but it's arranged nicely, looks beautiful, is fun to play and has a great magic system.
Sword of Vermilion: Fun game, looks a little primitive but the varied modes of play keep it interesting, awesome music too. The story is surprisingly dark and feels like a cool fantasy novel. I wish it had a prequel.
Landstalker: Action RPG, a lot of people like this one, I could never get into it. The semi 3D environments floating in empty black space just prevent me from getting into the game. The atmosphere's just not there and it looks a little childish.
Light Crusader: Similar style game to Landstalker but I like this one a lot better. Nicer environments and better artistic style keep me engaged in a way that Landstalker never could.
Phantasy Star II: Tedious grind fest with dungeons that are just too long to be enjoyable, but underneath is a great story.
Phantasy Star III: Interesting idea with the marriages and generations of characters. Actually not a bad game, but it's a little on the ugly looking side. PSII looks better.
Beggar Prince: Nice at first, but very primitively programmed, the magic is basically useless, and the menus and character stats are just a little too primitive for an RPG, there are 8 bit games out there with more depth... I never managed to finish it.
Legend of Wukong: Primitive but less so than Beggar Prince because you get more than one character at least. I'd say this is the best of the SFT games.
Star Odyssey: I love SFT and I hope they never stop publishing games. But I have to say this, what they do is polish turds. They take games that are complete garbage and pour in countless hours of work to try and make them good. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. With Star Odyssey they did a great job rewriting the story and making it captivating, unfortunately the retardedly high encounter rate really gets in the way of that story. I got bored with it halfway through and stopped playing, I feel a little guilty about that, maybe I'll give it another go sometime.
Monster World IV: The only MW game that I really like. It's more of a sidescroller with RPG elements, but it is a lot of fun and it looks almost too good to be a 16 bit title. Definitely worth getting a repro of the translated version.
King Colossus: Cool action RPG, not the best in terms of graphics but the gameplay is solid. Another one that's worth getting a repro of.

This thread is great; There seem to be a few RPG's here that I didn't know about, or forgot I had ever heard about.

For the RPG's I've played:

Phantasy Star IV: Agreed,the best game evarrr. Great music, deep story, great graphics (for battles & cut scenes, while over-world art is plain and fine).

Pier Solar: Love this game. Great FM soundtrack & awesome CD soundtrack. Nice graphics (although personally I dislike "cute" art styles in general, the art is still very good). Sweet mini-games: Mossae's Quest brings Mode 7 to the Genesis, and Pier Pyromar is a nice Bomberman clone (though I never played Bomberman). Change languages to practice your foreign language skillz.

The Immortal: Love it. Fantastic soundtrack, different songs for different screens (like if u pick up an item). Songs are very long and u can let the game stay on such a screen, to hear the whole song, that u would not otherwise hear completely. Real-time fights are easy and have bloody fatalities! Great mysterious, grim atmosphere too. (The graphics might turn off some people; They're nice & detailed but they can seem muddy, or something. The screen scrolls a little choppy too.)

Sword of Vermillion: Just got this but I'm intrigued so far. Simple graphics take the back seat, to the lush soundtrack, and the dialogue seems deeper than I wd expect. (Oh and to whoever mentioned the dungeons needing a map, AFAIK each dungeon does have a map, so u can see the whole thing, not just that little circle of candle-light around the guy.) I like the real-time battles, refreshing change from turn-based battles. These battles are simple but fun to walk around & kill enemies on the 3/4 perspective.

Landstalker: OK graphics seem polished but the cuteness of the art really puts me off. Actually when I bought it, I was thinking of Light Crusader, not this. lol

Light Crusader: This is new to me, but I appreciate the graphics (realistic and NOT cute). Great music, funny dialogue. I love it already. lol

Shining in the Darkness: Nice art and nice town to wander in; I have yet to get anywhere in that dungeon.

Starflight: Love this but I have yet to get anywhere in the game, besides mining a few planets.

Fairy Tale Adventure: I have no idea. I walk outside of town and get killed by the 1st enemies. lol

Star Control: Just got it and barely touched it, but looks good.

Also, no one is mentioning Sega CD games? I know this is the Genesis section but don't those fit in a discussion of Genesis RPG's? (I would think so anyways. lol)

Sega CD:
Lunar games turn me off with cute art styles, and childish voice acting, though I've barely played them at all.

Vay has good music but looks like an NES game, which is boring.

Dungeon Explorer seems to be a mash-up of a couple different art styles -- the classic medieval style RPG art, plus high-tech art, which hurts the atmosphere a bit. I get killed anytime I try to go anywhere in this game. lol

Eye of the Beholder seems good but I've barely played it yet... Seems very involved like it would take forever to get used to it, but maybe I'm wrong.

Sega CD games? I haven't beaten any of them either, but they certainly are worth mentioning.

Popful Mail - Fantastic side-scrolling action-RPG! I like this game a lot. It's got nice cartoony anime art, fun action-RPG gameplay, three playable characters to switch between, an amusing story, and more. I don't really have anything to complain about except for that minor grinding is occasionally required in the US release because, as usual, Working Designs upped the difficulty from the Japanese release. The game's still quite fun, though.

Lunar: The Silver Star - Only played a little of the first version of Lunar, but apart from the usual random battle complaint (which the PS1 remake fixes), it seems good. I do like the PS1 version more though, because of the visible enemies and because I think that adding Luna as a playable character through the first part of the game was a badly needed design decision. I haven't played this version very far in, but have played a lot of the PS1 and GBA versions; I even beat the game on GBA!

Lunar 2: Eternal Blue - This one I've played more, and it's certainly the 4th gen traditional RPG that I've played the most. I think I might even have gotten halfway through the game... and yes, it is one I always mean to go back to, but haven't quite for some time now. I like the story, characters, and graphics, though. Solid anime-style stuff. It uses lots of stereotypes, but does mess with a few of them, like how the healer is an adult, gambling-loving guy. I haven't played the PS1 remake of this one, but I know it adds visible enemies. That'd be nice, but this is tolerable, particularly with the usual Lunar save anywhere system. It adds some puzzles in the dungeons too, which sounds cool; I like puzzles in dungeons, it makes things much more interesting than the purely exploration-and-battles dungeons you unfortunately usually see in Japanese RPGs. The dungeons can be confusing to navigate sometimes, though, as they often are large and look quite similar inside. Look for those opened chests as a sign that you're going the wrong way. Lunar 2 is a very good game, and is easily my favorite 4th gen traditional JRPG.

Eye of the Beholder - PC port. Use a mouse if you want to have fun; I don't have the Genesis mouse, yet, so I've mostly played this one in emulation. It seems like a pretty good version of the game, and I like that they added voice acting -- the PC game doesn't have that. Dungeon crawlers like this weren't something I played back in the '80s or '90s, but this is a good one for the genre. I like that it has puzzles as well as monster-fighting -- as I said, that's something that often seems to be missing from Japanese games (compare EotB to Etrian Odyssey on that front, for example...), and I miss it. Of course this game does get repetitive after a while, though. I've only played a few floors down. I mean to play more of it sometime.

Dungeon Explorer - While I love Gauntlet and Gauntlet clones in general, this one's not a good one. Far worse than the TG16 original, Dungeon Explorer for Sega Cd is an original title (and a US-only release) too), not a port of the TG16/CD games. There are fewer characters to choose from here than in either of the TG16/CD games, and no female ones either. The game's broken, too, thanks to a very poorly designed experience system. Dungeon Explorer 1's (TG16) was maybe too simplistic, but this one doesn't work at all either, and is very easily exploited. Overall, the graphics and music are solid, but for gameplay, Gauntlet IV is a much better game. So are both of the Turbografx Dungeon Explorer titles.

As for Vay, I've played it for only a few minutes, but it seems like exactly the kind of JRPG I would most dislike. I haven't played Dungeon Master or Heimdall.

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

That's not exactly what I was trying to say. In most JRPGs, any wall of "difficulty" can be overcome with some amount of grinding. It's more of a question of tedium than actual difficulty; how many enemies you can kill and levels you can gain before you get bored. Obviously there's nothing difficult about fighting tons of random encounters, it's more of an endurance test.

Anyway, what I was trying to say is that even by JRPG standards, PSIV is a very easy ("fast" might be a better word, there's no downtime and you can more or less breeze through it as quickly as you like) game. Grinding is even more unnecessary than it is in most games.

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Yeah, my biggest problems with JRPGs are that I find the extremely basic battle systems most of them have boring most of the time, and don't really enjoy that grind-centric design. Because while I do think it's a lot worse when you have to stand in place and level for a while before I'm strong enough to face the next area, the regular grind of just going through the areas, and the endless, simplistic random battles you fight in them... that's often not much fun. I can enjoy some of these games, like Skies of Arcadia, Etrian Odyssey, and such, but most just do not interest me much at all. I find them much more boring than fun. I prefer having to actually think some, in a game that long... and in too many JRPGs, thought isn't necessary except maybe during bossfights. Just press attack over and over, and occasionally use a spell or potion. Dull. Handheld RPGs are somewhat more tolerable, because I can do something else at the same time (like have the TV on in the background), but console ones... I have to really find something about it interesting. Also, having save anywhere helps, a LOT. I love that all Lunar titles have save anywhere, for example. I wish Grandia did too... but I wish even more that it actually made you think once in a a while during battle. Why bother programming such a potentially interesting battle system, as Grandia 1 or 2 both have, when the difficulty is so low that 99% of the time just mashing attack and ignoring everything else will work perfectly and easily get you past the enemies? I don't get it.

And yes, on that note, I haven't played more than a couple of hours of Final Fantasy III/VI either; bored me quickly. I managed to get a little farther in FFV and Chrono Trigger, but in both cases I eventually hit a hard boss that I got stuck at, and instead of grinding to get strong enough to beat them, I quit playing. Western RPGs do bore me sometimes too, so I'm not exclusively singling out Japanese games here, but I think the issue is even more common with theirs. Still, overall playing RPGs often ends up with me remembering why I like strategy games more than RPGs... it's a good genre, but not my favorite.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

(and a US-only release) too

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It came out in Europe and Canada, too. ;)

As for my opinions, I did play every Genesis RPG released in English back in the day but I'm behind on more recently translated and homebrew games.

I'll write some stuff when I have more time but I will say Landstalker really pissed me off because my saves erased themselves twice when I was far into the game. Anyone else have that issue? From I what I hear it wasn't an uncommon defect.

Forgot Popful Mail, yeah that one puts me off with its cute art style too. lol

However, I do recognize that these are great games, despite putting me off with their art. That goes for Popful, plus both Lunar games. The 2nd Lunar game seems better in that way. Plus the intro FMV is sweet. How many FMV intros have a naked anime chick. lol

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Originally Posted by Ecco

Forgot Popful Mail, yeah that one puts me off with its cute art style too. lol

However, I do recognize that these are great games, despite putting me off with their art. That goes for Popful, plus both Lunar games. The 2nd Lunar game seems better in that way. Plus the intro FMV is sweet. How many FMV intros have a naked anime chick. lol

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The art's something I particularly like about those games... as for Lunar 2, it does have that in the intro, but that's not why I like the game. Lucia is a pretty good mysterious girl character, though; she's probably my second favorite such character, after Fina (from Skies). Lunar 2 has a better story overall than the first game, I think, too.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

It came out in Europe and Canada, too. ;)

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Canada's part of the US market of course, but I forgot that it came out in Europe too. It is odd that a Japanese-developed game like that was only released in the West, though, even considering its poor gameplay. Sega had a very, very thin SCD release list that year in Japan -- yes, much thinner than their US SCD release list in '95 -- so there certainly was room... but Japan never got a bunch of SCD games, including Ecco 2 CD, Wild Woody, Lords of Thunder, Dungeon Explorer, etc. I know people complain a lot about games not released in the West, and rightly so, but there are games that only released here, too... (Adventures of Batman & Robin is another one; they didn't get the Genesis or SCD games of that.)

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As for my opinions, I did play every Genesis RPG released in English back in the day but I'm behind on more recently translated and homebrew games.

I'll write some stuff when I have more time but I will say Landstalker really pissed me off because my saves erased themselves twice when I was far into the game. Anyone else have that issue? From I what I hear it wasn't an uncommon defect.

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I haven't had that happen, but are you talking about a battery failure, or something else?

Ecco 2 CD was released in Japan along with the first game as a two disc set.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

I haven't had that happen, but are you talking about a battery failure, or something else?

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If it was a battery failure, it wasn't a typical one (like naturally dying years later from being drained). I had bought the game within a year of its release. It seemed to record saves fine but then out of nowhere erase them. I think the battery still had power but there was some other issue.