Advantages of SNES hardware vs. Genesis hardware

If you don't mind an intentionally chiptuny sound, the bass in this is what the PCE bass should always sound like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqRzNrQBXE8

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I didn't say the soundtrack was bad, I said if I bought a CD or a game with supposedly CD audio and got that kind of audio I'd demand my money back. As that is no where near CD quality audio. That's like really low quality MIDI instead.

This is what CD audio sounds like:

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I got a new addition for the mp3.

I just think that SNES music is on the path towards CD music. Like an ancient ancestor or something.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

3 channels? That's absurd. Just listen to the bonk examples I posted. The first example, how much fuller the PCE version sounds compared to the NES. And the NES is using at least 4 channels (probably not using the 5th channel; DMC channel). In most PCE game musics, you clearly hear the bass line, drum kits, and main instrument ( playing chords no less, which is more than a single channel) followed by a fourth background instrument. 3 channels is like, bass line, drum kit, and single note instrument (no chords).

I've heard the PCE sound being referred to as thin or steel-y, or twang-y, but that's mostly because it's missing a fatter bottom end. You have to really EQ the shit out of the console audio out to get the lower frequency levels back up. And few games uses such bass-y instruments, but when they do (and the bottom end boosted) - it sounds pretty decent. It'll never have the full range of the 2612 or the SPC unit, nor will it have the dynamic timbre range of FM. But it definitely has a pretty unique sound. I never mistake PCE music for NES music or any other sound chips (save for, the SCC chip which is near identical).


It's supposed to sound like a chiptune, but I love saw tooth waveforms. Love 'em. (That's a pce version of the original). Musicians should have used the saw tooth waveform instead of the square, for PCE game music. The world would be a better place for it ;)

Edit: Old Sinking Sanctuary in the Genesis, is an incredible track.

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Such a coincidence that I'm learning Milky Tracker right now.

Yep like the Genesis, you can recognize PCE music from 6 KM away. They both have their unique sound thats unrelated to any other console.

I could never mistake PCE music for the beep, boop, bops that the NES makes. Its strange how the first model PCE has stereo channels, yet you can only use RF with that console model.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

I just think that SNES music is on the path towards CD music. Like an ancient ancestor or something.

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You are aware that the PC-Engine CD released before the SNES right? The only Path SNES music is on is PC MIDI. It has far more in common with that than CD audio.

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

If you don't mind an intentionally chiptuny sound, the bass in this is what the PCE bass should always sound like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqRzNrQBXE8

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I like this one. Very nice.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Yep like the Genesis, you can recognize PCE music from 6 KM away. They both have their unique sound thats unrelated to any other console.

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MSX:


Famicom:


Also the Genesis isn't really unique either, as the PC88/PC98, X68K, Arcade machines and many many other things use FM sound.

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Originally Posted by Raijin

I like this one. Very nice.



MSX:


Famicom:


Also the Genesis isn't really unique either, as the PC88/PC98, X68K, Arcade machines and many many other things use FM sound.

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Genesis sound is unique amongst FM/FM combos in general. The SMS and NES don't sound the same just because they both incorporate PSG.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

You are aware that the PC-Engine CD released before the SNES right? The only Path SNES music is on is PC MIDI. It has far more in common with that than CD audio.

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Okay I'll call the SNES as low-budget MIDI from now on.

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Originally Posted by Raijin

I like this one. Very nice.



MSX:


Famicom:


Also the Genesis isn't really unique either, as the PC88/PC98, X68K, Arcade machines and many many other things use FM sound.

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But those are all PCs.

And its easy to recognize the mono Famicom beep beeps.

We already have terms for each system's sound that doesn't directly compare to modern standards. SNES is extremely short and reverb heavy compressed PCM audio (ADPCM-like), Genesis is FM+PSG+DAC, TG16 is WSG (tiny PCM sample based). CD-audio is real music recorded, or real keyboards recorded, in digital format. ADPCM with enough Audio RAM can replace CD-audio, but not with such a small amount of RAM as the SNES (or Sega CD/System 32 Ricoh).

Also, I thought it has been discussed around here that the Panzer Dragoon games are using PCM/FM instruments not CD-Audio.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Genesis sound is unique amongst FM/FM combos in general. The SMS and NES don't sound the same just because they both incorporate PSG.

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How is Genesis FM unique? Honestly, comparing the OPN2 to the OPM is about the same as comparing SMS to NES. It's different, but not that different. Additionally, some Arcade machines do use the YM2612, and some even use a combination of SN76489 + YM2612. Comparing the Genesis to the PC88/98 would be very close though. Those are very similar, almost identical.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

But those are all PCs.

And its easy to recognize the mono Famicom beep beeps.

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The mono Famicom is easy to recognize, yes, but the point is the technology of the Namcot mapper is very similar to the PCE.

Also, what does being a PC have to do with the similarities in the sound?

As an aside, I'd like to mention "Chiptune" has to do with sound chips that produce its own sound, not the fact that they are old chips. So basically, NES, SMS, PCE, GB, Genesis etc. are all chiptune. SNES for example, whose sound chip is incapable of producing its own sound, is not chiptune.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Very low-budget CD music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpksvCC-hg

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I hate to reply to a post a page late, but you chose a bad example of the SPC chip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODKKILZiYY

This is a much nicer example.:D

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Originally Posted by sheath

We already have terms for each system's sound that doesn't directly compare to modern standards. SNES is extremely short and reverb heavy compressed PCM audio (ADPCM-like), Genesis is FM+PSG+DAC, TG16 is WSG (tiny PCM sample based). CD-audio is real music recorded, or real keyboards recorded, in digital format. ADPCM with enough Audio RAM can replace CD-audio, but not with such a small amount of RAM as the SNES (or Sega CD/System 32 Ricoh).

Also, I thought it has been discussed around here that the Panzer Dragoon games are using PCM/FM instruments not CD-Audio.

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Yea some SNES games are in the kilobytes, its amazing how they got such music in them.

Tiny PCM, okay thats the final term for PCE music.

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Originally Posted by Raijin

How is Genesis FM unique? Honestly, comparing the OPN2 to the OPM is about the same as comparing SMS to NES. It's different, but not that different. Additionally, some Arcade machines do use the YM2612, and some even use a combination of SN76489 + YM2612. Comparing the Genesis to the PC88/98 would be very close though. Those are very similar, almost identical.



The mono Famicom is easy to recognize, yes, but the point is the technology of the Namcot mapper is very similar to the PCE.

Also, what does being a PC have to do with the similarities in the sound?

As an aside, I'd like to mention "Chiptune" has to do with sound chips that produce its own sound, not the fact that they are old chips. So basically, NES, SMS, PCE, GB, Genesis etc. are all chiptune. SNES for example, whose sound chip is incapable of producing its own sound, is not chiptune.

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I was only speaking consoles:

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Yep like the Genesis, you can recognize PCE music from 6 KM away. They both have their unique sound thats unrelated to any other console.

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I know nothing about 80s computers.

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Originally Posted by Flygon

I hate to reply to a post a page late, but you chose a bad example of the SPC chip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODKKILZiYY

This is a much nicer example.:D

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Well I'm probably not the best person to pick SNES music, I'm pretty uneducated about the console and its library.

While the MSX is technically a computer, I'd say it has more in common with a console than a PC. It's pretty much a Master System with a weaker video processor.

And while were on this subject, there's some nice Snatcher comparison's on youtube that give a pretty good representation of the differences between all these systems (MSX, PC-88, PC-Engine, Sega CD/Genesis, PS1, Saturn):

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Tiny PCM, okay thats the final term for PCE music.

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But its also been mentioned that unlike the SNES, the PCE soundchip can generate its own sounds, not just playback them, like the SNES. I am still confused about the PCE sounchip, and how it should be categorized.

I found this on wikipedia.

"HuC6280 PSG:
The PSG provides 6 sound channels, which can be conveniently paired according to the functionality they provide:

0-1 - Waveform playback
Frequency modulation (channel 1 muted)
2-3 - Waveform playback only
4-5 - Waveform playback
White noise generation"

This is the PCE CPU/sound chip. Apparently the chip is PSG like I said before. That or I'm missing something.

I think what prevents us from calling it PSG, is that you can create your own waveforms.