Note I didn't say it can't do it. ;)
Just noting from the screenshots of this game, it appears to be dithering the effects.
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Note I didn't say it can't do it. ;)
Just noting from the screenshots of this game, it appears to be dithering the effects.
Evildragon is right on that game. It's clearly dithered. There may be some real transparency done with VDP 2 though.Quote:
Originally Posted by azonicrider
Well its obvious theres alot of dithering going on in that game, the explosions, some of the bullets, but I stand by the clouds. Clouds are always a high priority.
Instead of forcing me to watch the entire video again, can you just give me a time?
Because the video looks like it's composite, and that won't show dithering, so I need a screenshot.
Reply moved here:Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...981#post616981
Composite often shows dithering due to chroma moire artifacts (rainbow banding like dithering in H40 on the MD), at least in NTSC. It's pretty obvious in the composite video captures on YT of Sonic World in Sonic Jam. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
There's 2 points to argue there, aside from limiting the whip (or the dynamic jump arc for that matter).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
And that's:
1. add more level design elements (puzzels, enemies, obstacles, etc) that actually make good/interesting use of the new whip mechanics, and
2. modify the weapons to make them more distinct/useful and/or add more level design elements that make them more critical/useful in general. (having a weaker whip that requires upgrades -like in Bloodlines- might also have made it more interesting/challenging)
OK, let's go through some of the "good PCM drum examples" for the MD again. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by azonicrider
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG1c2U4ld2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1I-RAeIV68
(these first two use the same sound engine, both were fairly early games too from ~1990, both 1 MB or 8Mbits -as are most of these examples)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJToICnCRAo
(sounds kind of distorted, real hardware, but not the best, still OK for this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8X6gtAsoL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1clKj6PHoAo
(not really great samples, but still a classic ;))
All the 16-bit Sonic games use sampled percussion too, but it's not really anything special for the most part.
Well . . . OK, 3D Blast's drums are kinda nice. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUUyz0g4c18
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1616357E912A3F4A
He has been since his very first post on this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
That's a 2D transparent effect - which the Saturn had no issues with what so ever as the likes of Astal, Darius Gaiden, Gekirindan, Layered Section showed and GOD knows how many 2D games showed . Also that effect is VDP2 effect anyway and well that had no issues being made transparent be in a 2D game or a 3D game . The main issues came with a 3D transparent effect being overlayed a 3D polygon object and that's when you could just forget it on the SaturnQuote:
I always bring this up when I hear someone say the Saturn can't do transparenc
Its really and compared to the speed trails in Wipeout on the PS pretty shit . The only real nice completely opaque transparent effects in Sonic R is on the shield (which is a 2D effect) or the clever use of the VDP 2 swirling background in the last stageQuote:
That's VDP1 3D Transparency, errors and all.
Well if we're going to bring up a 2D shooter or 2D Transparent effects the Saturn had no issues with . Try playing Layered Section 2 on both the PS and Saturn and see the Saturn just not do the 3D transparent polygons effects , while it does pretty much everything else .Quote:
Is anybody keeping count of how many times TA brings up the same transparency nonsense and is proven wrong by the same example
Well I'm on about when both games were out then Mario IV for me was the better the game. If you want to talk about the here and now , well then something like Super Mario Bros on the Wii or Rayman Legends are much deeper 2D games .Quote:
We're not talking about what the average gamer was doing back in 1991.
Still hung up on the speed runs huh. I think there's a speed run of someone finishing Demon Souls before say Sonic Unleashed. So that means Sonic Unleashed is the better game and more challenging game too . One can finish Ikaruga quicker than one can finish Panzer Dragoon Orta , does that mean Orta is the more challenging game ? same goes for R-Type Final vers the likes of IkarugaQuote:
but they still take more time than the NES Mario games and are more challenging I'd say
NopeQuote:
I believe so, it shows everything in the first level of the game
Just becuase it doesn't look like the exact effect in Wipeout doesn't mean it's not true transparency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I didn't say modern games, I said I'm looking at Super Mario World as how I'd approach it now, not by how gamers approached it in 1991.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Where did I mention speed runs? You said those games were easier to play through, I simply pointed out that the NES Mario's are easier and can be beaten with less time and effort. That makes them easier games. Quit focusing on a few words in my posts and read the whole thing. Otherwise don't bother posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Why don't you actually back it up with some evidence and proof instead of just saying "no" like 2 year old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The clouds are transparent, it's a VDP2 effect. Particles are dithered since they're VDP1. The game doesn't use the VDP1 transparency effect used in Sonic R.
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
In the case of 3D transparency, I don't see it as a big deal as both of these console are just shit for 3D. So if you want slightly higher-class crap 3D, go with the PS1.
Vapor Trail has awesome drums. Bass drums.
Returning to genesis PCM discussion,
Skitchin does a ton of PCM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHaRo5Pe634
Anything matt furniss also has phenomenal drums on the genny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDDhaV-TPrY
Some GEMS based games do too (GEMS has pretty good PCM playback):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-DY6Phm_0
Gleylancer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEpwXVZkHLM
Crusader of Centy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIsw7lYodJQ
Shinobi 3:
Rolling Thunder 3:
Jewel Master:
Slap Fight MD:
High Seas Havoc:
Because it's something that comes up far to often, more SPAM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajx_p__Wd90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI9n3qro6tg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBcoNLwTUw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQxKFbPrVSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nkYBxJnmUo
Neat sound engine there and pretty good multi-channel PCM playback with sample scaling (pretty good technically, but a good bit better than that by typical MD game standards). Pretty sure it's 4 channel PCM mixing, at least I remember stef mentioning it at one point (including SFX/speech and music samples), not sure about the sample rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
It would have been interesting to see a game using more ROM for the samples though . . . the drums are still kind of weak and the guitar sample is strained WAY out of its useful range much of the time. (plus, that guitar isn't really the best/most impressive thing you'd want to sample -in terms of stuff difficult/impossible to do well in FM/PSG)
FM instruments are also a little above average for EA games too.
Yes, good and tasteful, though also a bit more synthy (and simple) sounding than the percussion in Galaxy Force, or especially Mega Turrican or Vapor Trail. (or what Tiido uses :p )Quote:
Anything matt furniss also has phenomenal drums on the genny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDDhaV-TPrY
Yep, and I wonder why more didn't at least manage that well . . . using the timer polling method. Given the typical sample rates used, it would be OK for that (and GEMS itself allowed up to ~10 kHz), or even more so for 68k drivers where the Z80 is slaved to PCM only anyway. (Ugh, like with Capcom's sound driver . . . that screwed up in spite of dedicated Z80 PCM handling -and 68k sound handling sloppy enough to cause much of the uneven playback due to Z80 bus contention, apparently)Quote:
Some GEMS based games do too (GEMS has pretty good PCM playback):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-DY6Phm_0
In the case of Earthworm Jim 2 (maybe some stuff in 1), I'm pretty sure they're using 4-bit PCM though . . . it's not super muffled or aliased like low bitrate 8-bit PCM, but chrunchy/distorted as low res PCM tends to sound. That or REALLY poorly optimized 8-bit PCM, but I rather doubt that. (same thing goes for most speech/SFX that sound grainy in GEMS games) Eartworm Jim 2 is one of the few examples I can think of where a multiplat MD game using sampled drums had better sounding samples on the SNES version. (assuming they're 4-bit linear PCM though, still not too bad really -and probably good notable examples for 4-bit compared to low sample rate 8-bit PCM of similar bitrates)
There's also the nice drums in Madden '96, but the better YT video of that were taken down iirc . . .
Its looks utter shit and like a place holder effect and compared to the countless transparent effects in PS games comes way up short .Quote:
Just becuase it doesn't look like the exact effect in Wipeout doesn't mean it's not true transparenc
Well now I wouldn't even bother with Sonic 1 tbh . And sure in the days of guides and videos at a touch of the keyboard: I may have played Mario IV a bit differently (though in saying that Super Play did show you how one could finish Mario IV by finishing just 11 levels ) . Back in the day Mario IV was for me the finest platform game ever made and well even today nothing has better Mario IV .Quote:
I said I'm looking at Super Mario World as how I'd approach it now
Less time does not mean the game is easier . Completing Mario IV and all its levels and all its secrets will take more time and effort than finishing Sonic that much is for sure.Quote:
I simply pointed out that the NES Mario's are easier and can be beaten with less time and effort
Again that screen grab isn't showing the switches or the hidden secrets seeing as the Swiches places are on latter levels, that then alter the earlier stages when you go back to them - That is something that doesn't happen in Sonic, so Mario IV is not only the bigger game but also features the better replay value . Like with Exhumed on the Saturn and getting on the hidden Team dolls after you beat the game, Mario IV was getting all the secrets long after you finished the gameQuote:
Why don't you actually back it up with some evidence and proof instead
That doesn't change the fact it's still true transparency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
No, but in combination with less effort it does make it easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
It's not a screen grab, it's a map of the entire level. It show's everything in that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda