Advantages of SNES hardware vs. Genesis hardware

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11-16-2013, 06:57 PM
zetastrike

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Mario 1 was simple , but there that was 1985 and it was a port of a Arcade game . Mario III and Mario IV were far more deeper affairs and where I doubt most gamers were able to finish them in less that 20 mins at the 1st time of asking .

There's a world record speed run with Symphony of the Night being done in less than 20 mins . How many people here could even come close to that now, never mind when we 1st had the game

Dude, Mario World (not Mario IV) is not hard to beat quickly. If you really wanted to beat it in 10 minutes, just look up how to do it and it's not hard to figure out how to skip a bunch of levels anyway. I highly doubt people weren't finding ways to zip through it BITD. And your argument doesn't change the fact that Sonic 1 takes longer to beat. You can't skip anything in it or save. If you want to beat it with all the emeralds you have to start from the beginning, and it'll take you longer than the average playthrough of Mario World.

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Exaclty and what I've been saying . In Mario would could hit a switch it be saved and you could go back to earlier levels and they'll be new gameplay elements introduced . In Sonic for one thing you couldn't save, you couldn't back track and even if you finished the game (finding all the secret break part of the level) it would still play and be exactly the same as if you just powered the game up for the 1st time . Mario IV was not only the bigger game with more levels, but thanks to the switches, secrets and saves it had the far better replay vaule

He just used level 1 from Mario world as an example of how flat and boring most of the stages are in the game. Yes, some get a little more complex as you go on, but the majority are just "walk to the right, make a few jumps, hop on about three enemies, and maybe go down a pipe." And what about the switches? All they add is a path or two in the air, maybe a bridge, or the cape feather so you can just fly through the stage and avoid doing anything. Mario 3 had better level design than Mario World. Sonic had actual things to do in the level with multiple paths and hidden areas. Mario World has none of that. Hell, you can even see where the switches will lead you before you even hit them. For me Mario World was a test of endurance to see how far I could make it before I got bored and skipped to the end.
11-17-2013, 12:51 AM
sheath

Sonic 1 took me over six months to beat because I kept getting trapped in the Labyrinth Zone. I wasn't particularly enamored with mascot platformers, and when I thought I could kill Robotnik during the climb I kept trying, only to eventually die for the effort. I'm not sure what eventually convinced me to just let him escape and let me get to my favorite level, the Star Light Zone.

After that finishing without the emeralds and then running through again while collecting them all was easy.
11-17-2013, 07:26 AM
Yharnamresident

This thread can resume after we're done appreciating the marvelous Star Light Zone:

http://www.soniczone0.com/games/soni...ne0artfull.jpg
11-17-2013, 12:28 PM
Team Andromeda

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just look up how to do it and it's not hard to figure out how to skip a bunch of levels anyway.

Point being 'now' . try looking up how to beat Mario IV in 1991 when there was no internet , no youtube and no GameFAQ's . Different story back then

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And your argument doesn't change the fact that Sonic 1 takes longer to beat

Talking longer to finish does not equal a game is easier . Like I said a skilled player can no doubt finish the likes of Ikaruga before ones finished the likes of Orta or REZ does that mean Ikaruga is an easier game ? I really don't think so

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but the majority are just "walk to the right, make a few jumps, hop on about three enemies, and maybe go down a pipe

And most knockers of Sonic will just say its a game where you just have to hold right on the Joypad to finish

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All they add is a path or two in the air, maybe a bridge, or the cape feather so you can just fly through the stage and avoid doing anything.

Its called replayability , something that Sonic didn't have until the likes of Sonic 3 and Sonic CD .
11-18-2013, 12:05 PM
TrekkiesUnite118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

And most knockers of Sonic will just say its a game where you just have to hold right on the Joypad to finish

Try that in Sonic 1. You'll die within 10 seconds if you do nothing put hold right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Its called replayability , something that Sonic didn't have until the likes of Sonic 3 and Sonic CD .

Each level in Sonic has multiple paths already there. Going through and trying different paths doesn't count as re-playability? And what about going through to get the different endings with the Chaos Emeralds?
11-18-2013, 04:38 PM
Team Andromeda

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Try that in Sonic 1. You'll die within 10 seconds if you do nothing put hold right.

Just hold right and time the odd jump and you'll can get very far in a Sonic 16 bit game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsTGZUaLiU

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Going through and trying different paths doesn't count as re-playability

Compared to Mario IV its really lacking .

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And what about going through to get the different endings with the Chaos Emeralds

What about trying to get and play all 96 levels in Mario IV ?
11-18-2013, 04:44 PM
sheath

*sigh* Good bye Star Light Zone, hello...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkzjBfTDH20
11-18-2013, 04:59 PM
TrekkiesUnite118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Just hold right and time the odd jump and you'll can get very far in a Sonic 16 bit game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsTGZUaLiU

Your original argument was only holding right. You made no mention of jumping. Way to keep moving the goal posts there TA.

The argument of "You can win by holding right and occastionally jumping" can be made for Super Mario World too you know:

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Compared to Mario IV its really lacking .

Ever hear of the term Quality of Quantity? SMW may have more levels, but a lot of them are about as fun as watching paint dry.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

What about trying to get and play all 96 levels in Mario IV ?

What about it? It's valid for replayability, I never said other wise. I said Sonic is harder than Super Mario World because in general it takes longer to beat and it's levels are more complex and challenging.
11-19-2013, 12:47 PM
Team Andromeda

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Your original argument was only holding right. You made no mention of jumping

No it was that Mario IV was the deeper game in fact and well given we're talking a platform game its more or less a given that you're going to have press the jump button at some point .

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The argument of "You can win by holding right and occastionally jumping" can be made for Super Mario World too you know

It can be made for many 16 bit platform games in fact and again it wasn't my original argument . I find Mario IV the deeper game with the best level design .

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because in general it takes longer to beat

That doesn't mean its any easier or more deeper at all .

For starters there's a speed run of Castlevania SON being done in less that the time of the video you posted that it took to complete Sonic 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9wue7Yo8BA

You're going to make out that means Sonic is the deeper and harder game than Castlevania SON . In fact playing your speedrun game and talking of Castlevania . Castlevania IV on the Snes owns both Sonic and Mario IV and is in fact the better game, the harder game and the deeper game

Game Over Yeah !!!!
11-19-2013, 01:00 PM
sheath

About a decade ago somebody hassled me to post screenshots of Castlevania IV, with the implication that the game would change my world and convert me to a SNES fan. I had recently procured the game and my SNES, so I fired up the capture card and played through it in one sitting cold. Castlevania IV is freaking easy.
11-19-2013, 01:42 PM
TrekkiesUnite118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

That doesn't mean its any easier or more deeper at all .

If you would have read my entire post you would have seen I also mentioned that the levels are longer and more complex. That does make it deeper and more

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

For starters there's a speed run of Castlevania SON being done in less that the time of the video you posted that it took to complete Sonic 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9wue7Yo8BA

You're going to make out that means Sonic is the deeper and harder game than Castlevania SON .

Don't be silly now. SoTN is a 2D Action RPG. Of course it has more depth. Difficulty wise though I wouldn't say it's really that difficult. When I did a blind run through of it years ago I never died once or got stuck anywhere. Mean while Labyrinth Zone, Scrap Brain Zone, Metropolis Zone, Wing Fortress Zone, Death Egg Zone, etc. can still give me hard time to this day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

In fact playing your speedrun game and talking of Castlevania . Castlevania IV on the Snes owns both Sonic and Mario IV and is in fact the better game, the harder game and the deeper game

Game Over Yeah !!!!

It wasn't about the speed of the run, it was about the fact that you could skip 90% of the game and win. It was about the fact that the level design was absolutely pathetic in comparison. It was about the fact that the bosses are push overs that take no real skill to beat.

And Castlevania IV is probably one of the easier Castlevania games. The multi-directional whipping completely breaks the game.
11-20-2013, 12:21 PM
Team Andromeda

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Don't be silly now. SoTN is a 2D Action RPG. Of course it has more depth

More depth but yet you can finish it quicker than Castlevania IV on the Snes , or Sonic on the MD . You see Speed Runs don't show a game truth depth at all

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It wasn't about the speed of the run, it was about the fact that you could skip 90% of the game and win.

Only if you know how too . No average gamer would have played Mario IV 1st time around like that or in fact spend £60 quid on a game to skip through half of it . Like I said Speed Runs are all about showing off the skill of the player and do no reflect at all on a games quailty, depth or how hard a said game really is to the average player
11-20-2013, 12:46 PM
TrekkiesUnite118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

More depth but yet you can finish it quicker than Castlevania IV on the Snes , or Sonic on the MD . You see Speed Runs don't show a game truth depth at all

I didn't say speed runs showed the true depth of a game. The one I used was a casual real time run that simply showed that the game easily lets you skip 90% of it to win. The point wasn't about how many seconds it took to do, it was about how much content do you need to play to beat the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Only if you know how too . No average gamer would have played Mario IV 1st time around like that or in fact spend £60 quid on a game to skip through half of it . Like I said Speed Runs are all about showing off the skill of the player and do no reflect at all on a games quailty, depth or how hard a said game really is to the average player

I would not be surprised if the warps were mentioned in an issue of Nintendo Power around the time the game was still popular. But again as I said it's not about how kids approached the game in 1991, it's about how difficult the game is compared to Sonic 1. Time period is irrelevant here. Super Mario World isn't hard to the average player at all. Again, the speed run wasn't about illustrating the skills of the player or how fast you can rush through the game. It was to illustrate one point in the list of reasons why the game is easy. You are focusing on one detail that wasn't even relevant to the argument.

Here's why Super Mario World is easy:
-You can skip 90% of the game and still win - This is all the Speedrun was used to illustrate
-The levels are stupidly simple and with few obstacles to get in your way.
-The obstacles you do encounter are pathetic. The hardest obstacle in SMW is a floating platform or a slow falling ceiling.
-The exploration in the game is a pathetic excuse for exploration. Most of the time it's just "oh there's another exit above the one that I already know about." There's no radically different paths with different scenery or obstacles like there are in Sonic.
-The bosses are a complete pushover. Every single one.

That is why SMW is easier than Sonic. It has nothing to do with how fast that speedrun was, the point it illustrates is simply the warp zone. It's not about the amount of time it took to complete.
11-20-2013, 01:19 PM
Team Andromeda

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I didn't say speed runs showed the true depth of a game

So why even bring it up . That Speed run didn't show Mario IV true depth at all.

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I would not be surprised if the warps were mentioned in an issue of Nintendo Power around the time the game was still popular

In Superplay issues 3 it showed you how to finish the game in just 11 levels - but that is missing the point

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-The levels are stupidly simple and with few obstacles to get in your way

One could say just the same about Sonic 1 or 2 really imo

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The bosses are a complete pushover. Every single one

Same goes for Sonic 1 imo

And of course its just in your opinion . Still there's such a love in for anything to do with the Mega Drive that any game on another system wouldn't stand a chance; It always be Sonic or a Mega Drive title

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The one I used was a casual real time run that simply showed that the game easily lets you skip 90% of it to win.

Bullshit that was a serious gamer who I bet have played the game to death, much like with the guy playing Castlevania IV and well if we go on speed runs its wins :P. Anybody doing a speedrun is far from a casual 1st time I played this game player
11-20-2013, 01:25 PM
Kamahl

None of this has to anything to do with hardware, a bit of off topic is ok but this is getting out of hand. A mod should split this into a "Sonic 1 vs Mario World, which is easier/deeper" thread or something.

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