Advantages of SNES hardware vs. Genesis hardware

It also doesn't make sense how people can appreciate the mono beep bops on the NES, yet they can't appreciate Genesis music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMdNLUN1pXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG1c2U4ld2Y

The Genesis sound system sucks...
It doesn't matter that games like Tengen's Gauntlet IV and Tengen's Marble Madness sound closer to the arcade originals than any arcade port on the released-full-two-years-later SNES.
It doesn't matter that games like Wayne's World, Earthworm Jim, Disney's The Lion King, Mickey Mania and Flashback have voice samples sounding a lot clearer on the sucks-for-DAC-playback 1988's console.
It doesn't matter that games like Earthworm Jim, Cool Spot, Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel and Flashback have less and/or shortened audio samples on the SNES due to its limited sound RAM and inability/difficulties to "stream" audio directly from the ROM like the losers' #1 choice 16-bit console does easily.
It doesn't matter that fully FM synth soundtracks require a lot less ROM space than the SNES space-age-technology sound system.
It doesn't matter that most of arcade boards and the high-end Japanese computers (X68000, FM Towns, etc.) used FM-based sound systems just like the awful-sounding Sega's black box.
It doesn't matter that the low quality samples + heavy compression + forced interpolation can make your game sound like if you're playing with your TV under a pillow inside a bathtub filled with quicksilver.
...
Even Nintendo Power objectively stated that SNES sound was far superior, so it IS.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Sonic was amazing when it came out. It was different, it was pure fun, it was polished, etc. I think it's a secret to everyone, that Sonic games on the Genesis specifically focus on the excitement of speed and rushing through the course. That's not say that there aren't parts that require you slow down and explore, or etc. Similar to a SMW, but definitely not its equal in that department. It gave Sonic games just enough variety to break up the run and rush parts, IMO. SMW on the other hand, also has levels that blaze through (you do have a run button in Mario games). Some levels are designed specifically for that. Does it compare equally to Sonic in those areas? Not-even-close. Why? Because these are *TWO* different games. If you trying to reshape these games into something that are directly comparable, then you've already FAILED before you begun.

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I remember that back when SOnic came out it made a tremendous visual impression - the graphics were lush and colourful and to be honest they almost make SMW on the SNES look like an 8 bit game, with its simpler / more boxy visuals. I think that both games stood the test of time well, they are different but both geat. That said for me SMB3 is the definitive Mario game ;)

Speaking of square waves. Here's some square waves on the SNES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIeHJmrbhs

Now here's actual square waves on the Genesis, not just the 'squareish' sound, but actual PSG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIziQ2ldmmU

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

The Genesis is much better at "performing" music. All SNES music has that vibrato-like effect from repeating short sound clips to create notes. This is independent from the muffling distortion combo of the original sample quality + compression artifacts + final layer of reverb. Those four elements lead to the SNES' signature warble sound. Separate from that, compared to the Genesis, the SNES has a limited ability to transition between notes. Transitioning from note to note to note on SNES is like a jagged staircase while in comparison Genesis sound has smooth curving arcs.

This is why the Genesis is better at actual music. Unfortunately, too many retro game fans today can't appreciate composition and performance and tend to rave over terrible pieces that have the kinds of "sounds" they think are best, while also trashing beautifully composed and performed/programmed music. The SNES isn't even realistic sounding as it more or less attempts to imitate imitation instruments. Just listen to real and simulated instruments in CD music from the 16-bit generation. The SNES is much further off than simply being "down-scaled". It simply is what it is. The overall combination of what the SNES can and can't do is its signature sound. But it certainly isn't realistic.

It's cool to prefer SNES sound or particular SNES soundtracks. But the whole superiority thing is a myth shared among Nintendo fanboys who are incapable of perceiving any imperfections in the only perfect console ever made (see the backwards "square'ish", "real instruments", sprites, etc comments above). They aren't helped by the journalists who have been feeding them this b.s. over the past twenty years.

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Well i understand the NeoGeo64 point, myself when i got a SNES i immediately though it sounded far superior to my MD. Orchestral instruments / ambiance musics just sounded different and better ! Of course i do know how the SPC700 work, that it is totally sample based with very limited memory, constrained compression, awful filtering, and many others flaws... and the MD chip sounds clearer, can reproduce some instruments better. But still FM is not able to reproduce a lot of instrument (or we don't know how to reproduce them with FM) and sometime trying to mimic them just sound wrong.
I believe both chips have theirs strength and weakness, SNES chip allow simple sample based compositions even if the limited memory hurts. FM is definitely more complex to exploit, but when it's done correctly you can get the best from it. Hopefully Genesis is not just FM, you can also use sample (even multi sample with a capable driver, and that is without any memory limitation as on SNES) and PSG sound. I believe that is the addition of these 3 parts which can make the Genesis sound superior. FM alone would be a problem, having PCM and PSG to second it is just right !

I found a DKC Aquatic Ambiance Genesis Remix which show that Sega Genesis chip can somehow handle ambiance style music :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsTNBRNa10Q

IMO it sound really good... but probably not a good as the original ;)

One FM channel can -realistically- recerate any one string. Typical orchestral instrument has 4 strings however, you would need almost whole chip to do that one instrument when its playing chords and such or to create layers which is what is going on in an orchestra. With sample you can have a whole section in one channel, other question is if you can properly loop it, and you would also need many samples for different pitches or it will sound really unrealistic.
In any case you should be doing rich synth tracks on FM, music you'll hear in radio and such. it is most excellent at that !

But what are all the different channel waves that are in the Genesis' FM chip? like triangle, triangle, square, circle, x?

It only has sine. But making squares or sawteeth takes just 2 operators and you got 2 left for other kind of stuff. There's no circle waveform :P

Yea I was just being humorous, all this triangles and squares made me think of PlayStation buttons.

So the Genesis has no square waves? I swear the composer in Beyond Oasis only used square waves for every song.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

So the Genesis has no square waves? I swear the composer in Beyond Oasis only used square waves for every song.

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Well, the PSG chip has 3 square wave channels (+ 1 white noise), and FM can easily emulate square waves (all the square waves in genesis Furniss music are FM), so it's possible :p. Did you know Yuzo Koshiro made the Beyond Oasis soundtrack? How you go from RoS and SoR to BO is beyond me.

It was a steady progression ROS -> BK1 -> BK2 -> Bk3 -> BO. The music in BO is quite excellent if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

It was a steady progression ROS -> BK1 -> BK2 -> Bk3 -> BO. The music in BO is quite excellent if you ask me.

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Electronic Dance Music -> Electronic Dance Music -> Electronic Dance Music -> Randomly Put Together Noises (with some good tunes by another musician) -> Square Waves.

Not steady in the slightest.

Well, I disagree. If you look closer, ROS has a handful of tracks that resemble the dance music of BK1. While it features a good number of remixes from BK1, BK2 already has a lot of tracks that hint at what to expect in BK3, and in the review BK3 has a few little hints at what would be the main style in BO.

The BK2 songs that hint to BK3 were done by Motohiro Kawashima, which is also the man responsible for the good songs in BK3 (excepting shinobi reverse, but that one is pretty overrated as is). There's nothing in BK3 that sounds even remotely similar to BO.

I see a general digression in Koshiro's tunes from his early days until Beyond Oasis. They go from very catchy and memorable, even genius sometimes, to random notes floating around in a void. I'm no expert though, music in general went the same way to me and now all I listen to is classical instrumental or video game chiptunes. Oh, and Offspring.