For TA the amiga could never do SF2 because all the ports are crap. It doesn't matter that Fighting Spirit exists. That's his logic.
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For TA the amiga could never do SF2 because all the ports are crap. It doesn't matter that Fighting Spirit exists. That's his logic.
The PCE uses the Card ROM like RAM. If I recall it is better at streaming animation off ROM than the SNES, which is why the Arcade Card works so well for NEO GEO fighters and stuff like Sapphire. I thought it was better than the Genesis too, but Zebbe told me that its ROM speed is fast enough to stream animation as well. Bottom line is, as long is there is enough ROM for animation the PCE can display it.Quote:
Originally Posted by saturndual32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmA3uoEAeyw
This whole thread has devolved into a load of boring TA platitudes, that warp everything into a mush of ignorance, e-penis waving "look at how much hardware I've got" and blind-sided drivel.
"I was playing Megadrive when you were still sucking your mothers dick!"
"Pure class, imo!"
"A league of its own"
Please, don't capture the SNES audio from your bathroom in the next time, OK? Well, at least, not from the inside of the bathtub!Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Oh, wait...
Well, at least I refrained from flushing, be happy with what you get!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
HAHAHAHAHA! That made my day!!! Thanks Barone!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
But seriously, i too was brainwashed back in the day, into believing that the SNES port was better on every way, compared to the Genesis version.
To me, the 3 16bit ports are great for their time, and still boot the 3 up from time to time, just to compare them. Depending on my mood sometimes i prefer one, some other time i prefer the others.
Don't mean to be rude but, when did I say I was supporting TA?Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
You didn't, I was just figuring out your stances, since that was your 2nd post ever here..
Don't take it personal.
The x68k had closer arcade conversions not just because it was more powerful, but because they used that machine to develop arcade titles. At least Capcom did it, anyway. So technically games like Strider or SF2 were not arcade ports, but the arcade games were x68k ports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The Amiga indeed gave birth to a lot of classics, but most of them are entirely different league games, and there aren't that many series which started on the Amiga and are still alive today.
I've played all three versions on all three original consoles. The pc engine to me is clearly the winner. Maybe because the pc engine version everything feels balanced, graphics, sound, play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
No I'm a big fan of the Amiga . Sadly it never had the backing from the major Japanese developers with their budgets and teams sizes and I bet half the time the people doing the ports of Japanese Arcade games didn't have the source code either .Quote:
For TA the amiga could never do SF2 because all the ports are crap
No quite they're still conversions . If you want to talk 68000 ports then that would have be on Capcom very own console reallyQuote:
At least Capcom did it, anyway. So technically games like Strider or SF2 were not arcade ports, but the arcade games were x68k ports.
LOL and that make its real ?Quote:
Oh for fucks sake TA it's right in the video descriptions for them
I think you are and if you want to play that game then the Sharp X68000 is more powerful than the Mega Drive with a better CPU .Quote:
We weren't comparing PC's to consoles, we were simply mentioning it as an example
Yes TA, not only does that make them real, it's usually easy to tell whether it's a hardware recording or not just by the video. There's the "buzzing" when there's no sound and the video artifacts among other things. But I suppose everyone is faking all that just to make people believe they actually recorded from real hardware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
And you clearly have a psychological disorder. The rest of the answers in your post are evidence enough. Not one of them has anything to do with what was in the quote. It's like you're talking to some entity in a parallel universe and we're only seeing your side of the conversation with the other side being replaced by random quotes from the forum.
The one video is from SuperDeadite of SegaSaturn.co.uk. So yeah I take his word that the video is recorded from real hardware.
And I think you misunderstood what zyrobs said. Capcom used the X68000 as the development kit for their CPS1 and some CPS2 games. Meaning the games were built to run on the X68000.
And again I wasn't comparing Computers to Consoles. The X68000 was brought up to show that FM synthesis with moderate PCM capabilities was being used in top of the line gaming computers at the time. No one ever compared the X68000 to the Genesis or SNES here. It was compared to the Amiga (which you opened the door on that one), but the Amiga is personal computer, not a console. No one is going to compare the X68000 to a console here either, because we all know the X68000 will generally win as it's significantly more powerful. It would be like comparing the Atari 2600 to the Genesis. It's just not a worthwhile comparison.
And how you know . You ever owned a Sharp X68000 ? . The point is hardly anyone really got to use and play the unit in the West, new what it gamer controlled look like . When it comes to Sharp most of us have to use Google or Youtube but mind you the native res of the system is a give away if people are using a emu I guessQuote:
Yes TA, not only does that make them real, it's usually easy to tell whether it's a hardware recording or not just by the video
I would imagine the Sharp uses a differnt operating system has difference levels of Ram Ect and so it wouldn't be a simple port , not like porting CPS games to Capcom Power System Changer home consoleQuote:
Capcom used the X68000 as the development kit for their CPS1 and some CPS2 games. Meaning the games were built to run on the X68000
Knowing what it looked like is completely irrelevant here. The videos I posted were captured from real hardware and there are dead give aways of that if you know what to look for. As I said I take superdeadite's word for it. I trust him more than I trust you on this matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
For the love of god TA, they wrote the games on the X68000. That's what they were developed on and most likely what they were tested on. The Hardware is quite similar to Capcoms CPS1 hardware. Getting the games to run on the X68000 was most likely as simple as recompiling the code.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Changes had to be made, not like with the Capcom Power System Changer home console - Where like with the Neo Geo AES it basically was the Arcade in your bedroom and played host to perfect portsQuote:
The Hardware is quite similar to Capcoms CPS1 hardware. Getting the games to run on the X68000 was most likely as simple as recompiling the code.
It's important if you want to be and end on all authenticity - I've seen some old videos of Mega CD games calming to be the real deal only they're not . Now I'm not saying those vids aren't real, but next to hardly any of us have ever set eye's on the Sharp system even in the Import shop back in the day.Quote:
Knowing what it looked like is completely irrelevant here.
Nah, there's quite a few differences, but they're similar enough that nearly everything but the lowest level Graphics+Sound code can be reused. Nearly all of the artwork could stay intact, sound effects too (though no more than 1 playing at the same time), music would have to be changed a bit. The X68000 made the perfect test bed for the games, since they could reassemble and test on the same machine using the same assets. The game logic is shared.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
No one said they were end all authorities here. But considering who posted the one video I'd say it's safe to say they video is real hardware. He even has videos of himself using the thing to show how to write your own floppies on it among other things:
I think it's safe to say, he has real hardware and his videos are recorded from it.
As for changes made for the X68000 versions, most if any were probably minor. Again, this is the hardware they were writing their code on and testing their games with. During development they had to make it compile and run on an X68000 to test changes that weren't worth writing to ROM chips.
Thanks for clarifying on that. The bit about testing on the same machine was what I was getting at though. Basically the X68000 port was an end result they got from creating the original Arcade game if I follow this correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Pretty much.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
You're going to have to cite a source for X68000 being the CPS SDK. I can't even find anything except a post made by someone on a forum that was banned.
Really? It's in Wikipedia, Hardcore Gaming 101, the Capcom Wikia, etc... Hiroaki Kondo (former capcom sound engineer and programmer) was credited as "X68k" for goodness sake.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
All cheating homebrew emulation lies!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
If we want to get to the bottom of this we will have to tie up an X68000 and interrogate it for the answers. The great TA has spoken!
...How was my impersonation?
Again you can't tell me it's real its what it's really like because you or most here have never owned the system for them self's - That is the pointQuote:
I think it's safe to say, he has real hardware and his videos are recorded from it
maybe its a different serial I/O the Ram and memory systems will most prob be different and of course there's the issue of the Media and storage limits . I mean going off you tube video and see that some of the lighting effects aren't in the Sharp version , but yet they've made into the Mega CD versionQuote:
As for changes made for the X68000 versions, most if any were probably minor.
To people like who claim that's not really what a Snes games sound like , yesQuote:
If we want to get to the bottom of this we will have to tie up an X68000
Needs more syntactical errors.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
That's true, I have no frame of reference having never owned one. However, when there's indisputable evidence that a video is in fact from real hardware it's pretty stupid to try and deny it. Why don't you contact the video owner themselves? See what they have to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
What the hell are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Your SNES videos were clearly emulated, the X68000 videos I went out of my way to find real hardware videos. There's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
How would you know if they were any different? Do you even have a x68k, a cps1/2, a cps1/2 devkit, or any low level knowledge on how to program on any of those? Or are you just pulling assumptions out of your ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I'm sorry those Wikipedia articles cite no source. So without that information how am I supposed to know someone didn't just make it up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Well, it makes sense for one, Amigas and Macs were used as development environments in the west. In Japan it was either the X68k, FM-Towns or the PC-98, with the key point of the X68k having hardware very similar to the CPS1, making it the logical choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
Still. There's nothing to back it up. Look I want to agree because its a stab at TA and you know I hate him.
But this claim just has nothing backing it up.
Kamahl were you trying to be a comedian with this list?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Some of this stuff is really un-notable, that Kaizoku game gives even the most mediocre, unfinished feeling Amiga shmups a run for their money.
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After seeing you list Valis II I thought "oh! the X68000 version must've been much better than the others then", but no, this is as pathetically clumsy as it ever was, the character movement, and control is shocking, the sprites are tiny, the animation nothing short of shameful, the gameplay speed is all over the place, and even the scrolling isn't very good, how in hell can you complain about the Amiga being under-utilised and then bring up this sub-SMS offering on a system this powerful?!!! :p
Ys III is as "Kinda' OK, but disappointing" on X68000 as it was on every other system under the sun (and again, what happened to lamenting hardware under-utilisation?).
Dodgy games like Switchblade II, Rubicon, Lethal Weapon, and Viking Child: The Prophecy compare favourably to those first two
Genocide 2 is better, but not particularly memorable, it feels a bit clumsy at times, level design is passable (loads of travelators making you fall down to earlier sections making you repeat, not particularly memorable layouts etc), and the enemies get in your face a bit, with cheap hits, and you occasionally rebounding around taking damage etc, presentation is pretty good. All in all its just OK.
Half decent games and/or games ported from 8-bit like Turrican 1, First Samurai, or Assassin: Special Edition compare respectably to this, heck I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and throw in Turrican II as a freebie too if you want
So out of the grand total of 6 platform-ey arcade action games you managed to list, 3 can be comprehensively dealt with without actually needing to dip into the list of good Amiga action games at all.
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Castlevania 43: The Return to the Return to the Return to Castle Dracula - this is as good as you'd expect of a Castlevania game, there's some cool effects, some excellent level layouts and a lot of nice touches and great presentation, its all been seen before countless times of course but that doesn't stop it from being a strong title. This is on par with any of the better action games on Amiga, arguably a little better, but at this stage I find the concept a bit overdone, so its difficult to get particularly enthusiastic over the game, I also reached the final level on my first attempt (though as I said before I've played the Castlevania series to death so I could see others struggling more).
Aquales - This is also pretty strong. Good level design, a decent number of intricacies in the gameplay department with all the different weapons and pick-ups, smooth swinging action and movement a la Bionic Commando/Super Turrican II etc are all pro's, and there are some really quite surprising effects to boot, the only thing I would criticise is that I find it a little ugly at times, which was the 1st thing which struck me the 1st time I heard about it (on Hardcoregaming101 I believe). This is notable action game number 2.
Mad Stalker - grew on me over time, I'm not too keen on 1-player Beat-em-ups taking place on a single plane but this game admittedly has a nice control system and moveset, allowing you to do Street Fighter II style moves. Graphics were good, but enemy variation was poor and there seems to be only 1 choose-able character which brings it down a little.
These were the only three notable sidescrolling platform-ey action games you listed, as far as I'm concerned the other three were filler
Personally I find Lionheart, Mega Turrican, and Second Samurai to be in the same league as Aquales and Castlevania, that leaves you with -
Ruff N Tumble - Very Good
Yo! Joe! - Very Good
Qwak - Very Good
Odyssey - Good
Quik - Good
Kid Chaos - pretty respectable
Risky Woods - pretty respectable
Galahad/Leander - pretty respectable
Gods - Pretty Respectable
Zool 2 - OK
Fatal Rewind - OK
Can't think of many good non-arcade port beat-em-ups on Amiga to go up against Mad Stalker, Amiga is fairly poor for Beat-em-ups, and the best one is a less than perfect arcade port itself (Golden Axe), the only one that I'd even consider half decent is Motorhead, which is a good 2 whole points worse than Mad Stalker at least. Albeit you didn't seem to name any non arcade port fighters to compare against Fightin' Spirit.
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Already commented on the top down run n guns, Virocop, Alien Breed 2, and Chaos Engine more than equalise Granada and Arcus Odyssey IMO (also is it me or are both of those Wolf Team games much harder on X68000?)
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The 3D games (Geograph Seal, Sion IV, Star Cruiser) I don't have the knowledge to compare, Amiga has tons of those types of games but I've never been that interested in ancient 3D stuff, as I said before Simulcra is OK, I've heard good things about Starglider 2, Zeewolf 2, Trex Warrior, and Virus though, I'll have to investigate further.
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As can be expected the scrolling shooters (everything else you listed) are more numerous, and seem to be higher quality than Amiga's, this wouldn't surprise anyone as all in all, as we've said before Amiga is pretty pathetic for scrolling shooters, the only worthwhile ones (outside of the two R-Type ports) really being -
Disposable Hero
Apidya
Battle Squadron
And Battle Squadron really shows its age against the X68000 games
There is of course other types of shooters on Amiga though, such as the great version of Desert Strike, and the plethora of gravity based shooters like Fly Harder, Zarathrusta, and Gravity Force, as well as decent numbers of Asteroids updates such as Stardust.
I haven't spent much time with these yet, but as I said earlier Kaizoku was pretty low quality, felt a lot like a PD effort really, so I'm sure there's some padding going on here, Cho Ren Sha is actually very good though from what I've played of it, more impressive even than most Mega Drive shooters tbh.
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So yeah, saying this machine has as many good non-arcade action games on it as Amiga has in its entire library is pretty ludicrous, maybe you meant twice as many Japanese-style scrolling shooters?
and we haven't even touched on platform games, Amiga has
Bonk's Adventure
Bubble and Squeek
Brian the Lion
Chuck Rock II
James Pond II
Puggsy
Shadow of the Beast 3
Magic Boy
Soccer Kid
Flashback
Bubba N' Stix
Lost Vikings
The Addams Family
When you have arcade ports like Garou Densetsu, Garou Densetsu 2, Garou Densetsu Special, Street Fighter II CE, Super Street Fighter II you really don't need to get a rip off of those same games like Fightin' Spirit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
I also doubt that there's anything like Death Brade on the Amiga.
Just commenting, I think Kamahl forgot about FZ Senki Axis and Die Bahnwelt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Seem? No, they're extremely superior actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Also, you can play the following games on the X68000 using a proper analog stick (I don't think that Amiga has something like the CyberStick):
Afterburner
Dash Yarou
Knight Arms
Metal Sight
Neural Gear
Overtake
Racing Champ
Space Cruiser
Star Luster
Super Hang-On
Syvalion
Thunder Blade
The Amiga library is like 5X bigger than the X68000's and surely more rounded. OTOH, X68000 gave you an outstanding arcade experience at home and its great games sounded, looked and played much better than the Amiga ones IMO.
Mad Stalker is a great game. Ok, it's not really great but still good - but it hits all the rights spots for me. I just wish it had a little more variety to it (more different types of enemies as you progress and it would be great to have some more moves or obtain more moves as you progress). I played the crap out of it for the PCE ACD. I see that there's a PSX port as well, but I never played it.
Also, I thought Granada was a great game. I loved the Genesis port and was thrilled to learn that the x68k had a version (and superior too).
It's more like a remake. It has 3D-ish floors but the gameplay is totally 2D, the characters/objects sprites are nicely detailed and the backgrounds are multilayered; it has zooming effect and all. However, the background art is kinda poor and the atmosphere is not that dark anymore. The music is good and the game plays fast and nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaitheous
IMO it's more pleasant/cool to play it than the previous ones but maybe a bit bland in some aspects; I strongly recommend you to give this one a try 'cause I think you'll love it.
Most of the games on your platformer list are Tng, or horrible ports (like puggsy or addams family). All the games on my list are above average (besides kaizoku yeah and ys 3, but thats only because i dont like ys. There's a really good looking version of the first Ys). The X68000 also has near perfect ports of arcade games, that gives it a huge boost since it has lots. The 3D games on the amiga are barely playable, while geograph seal is better than starfox.
Amiga is the best. After all, who doesn't love to play games like Mortal Kombat using just a single button???
Really? I've always thought of it aAttachment 5599Attachment 5600s the fugliest version of Ys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Dang it Tom, now I know where my measily gaming budget is going next month. Ooh, maybe I'll ask for it for Christmas so I can nickle and dime my budget away still. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaitheous
I don't know what model Amiga my buddy had back in the early 90s, but I'm pretty sure I saw Elite on that system and it looked way better than anything I saw on a 16-bit console even with special chips. I'd swear it was better than 640x480 and 60FPS, but that is probably because I had never seen smooth 3D before. Virtua Racing in the Arcades seemed like it had no aliasing or slowdown too when I first played it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
This is irrelevant, Kamahl's statement was that the X68000 had more good action games than the Amiga had in its entire library without touching the arcade ports, that's what we were discussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
Mega Drive is the measuring stick for this, and Mega Drive gives you many times the number of arcade games, and at 1000s of dollars less, who gives a crap if the X68000 has an arcade perfect version of Final Fight, I always significantly preferred Streets of Rage II to it anyway, what is there on X68000 to compare to Hard Corps? having perfect versions of arcade games doesn't make you an outstanding arcade experience at home when said games have all been superseded anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
All I was thinking whilst playing Strider, and Ghouls N' Ghosts on X68000 was how well the Mega Drive versions actually captured their gameplay, and feel, and how much better value for money they were.
And how many of them are arcade perfect anyway? unless I've run into an problem on two separate emulators then Newzealand Story sure as hell isn't, there are problems with the 1st boss' behavior for one thing, and I'm sure the movement speed is a little slower too, and being arcade perfect for Atomic Runner is a bad thing, Mega Drive's Atomic Runner is ludicrously better than the X68000 version.
On top of that I don't see why Kamahl isn't feeling "X68000 Sadness" right now, I've already run into some stuff on X68000 which has been straight ported from much older computers with barely any (if any at all) improvements, this is a machine which cost 1000s!
If you want premier software then Mega Drive is a far better arcade experience at home, for a pittance of the price, if you want perfect arcade ports than Neo Geo is far, far cheaper and has much more consistent quality levels from game to game.
What is this machine actually supposed to excel at? (outside of raping your wallet of course)
I love how people keep completely missing the point here.
Comparing consoles to home computers of the time is an unfair and just odd comparison on both sides of the equation. Consoles generally supplied radically different and unique experiences than what was on a computer. At the same time games that were on both were generally better on a computer like the X68000. It's not really a fair or sane thing to say one is completely better and you should only own one or the other. Which apparently TA and TheNewGuy think we are comparing the X68000 to everything and saying it's better than everything and should be the only retro gaming system you should own.
The only comparison that was truly made was against the Amiga, and I stand by what I said. If I were in a room and on one table was an Amiga with it's entire library, and on the other an X68000 with it's entire library and I was told I could have one or the other completely free, I'd take the X68000. There's more on it that appeals to be and the games on both systems are typically better on the X68000.
Rubbish, all I've seen is 2nd rate console-style exclusive games on X68000 and arcade ports.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Wow! Castlevania, you'd never see something like that on a console! you'd never see arcade ports or Ys III, and Valis II on a console!
I bet I could find some perfect arcade ports on Mega Drive if I wanted to too, as already mentioned Atomic Runner is far superior to the arcade version as far as I can see, and both Mercs and Chiki Chiki Boys are arguable, arcade perfect isn't anywhere near as rare as people make out.
This is no better than saying you'd take 7800 over NES as far as I'm concerned, why don't you write some reviews of all these Amiga games you've played and don't like?Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118