agreed. I love the pure 80s sound of them.
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Originally Posted by Kamahl
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agreed. I love the pure 80s sound of them.
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Originally Posted by Kamahl
I was going to take counterpoint in this thread but after checking out some other forums for research I got so annoyed with SNES fanboys that I stopped caring.
:lol:
I know that feel. I have seen some level headed fans, quite a bit actually, but never have I seen even one fanboy of anything with common sense, especially SNES fanboys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
It's fine to be a fan of something you like, but to the extremes fanboys take it, which I mean the people that worship anything about what they like and defend it no matter how untrue the things they spout, it really just goes beyond anything I could grasp without having me end up slamming my head into the wall a few times to be able to comprehend what I saw or read.
I just have to say how hard it is to try and make those kinds of people understand you when you give them facts and reasonable arguments to their blindly defending what they care for so much to the point they need to lie about it to make it seem better.
In the case of the Genesis vs the SNES, you say something like "The Genesis is easier to program and has a faster CPU" or something simple like that, there will always be this rediculous person somewhere down the line saying something like "U LIE THE SNES IS BETUR ITS EASIER TO USE AND ITS MORE POWERFUL THEN THE GENESES AND IT HAVE BETUR SOUND 2 GO SHOVE A SEGA GAME UP UR AS FANBOY"
It's just sad...
Some of the threads I was reading were literally saying stuff like -
"SNES is better than Genesis in all aspects, both tech, and games", "there isn't any genre's the Genesis is better at, people who think otherwise are deluding themselves", "Contra III is better than all Genesis Run N' Guns" "UN Squadron is the best scrolling shmup ever made" "SNES has CD quality audio" etc etc.
Here's a nice thread if you feel like getting annoyed, starts off with a stupid post by a Genesis fan/troll but then devolves into 10 pages of Sega hate -
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451166
There were a lot more, that was just the last one before I gave up.
I wonder how they would react to some of the more technical discussions we have here...
On a related note I still think we should make a video series that is as unbiased as possible and does a cut and dry technical comparison.
Thanks you for that. I seriously laughed at "SNES has CD quality audio", well I laughed at all of it actually. That's fanboyism at its finest.
I have had my share of that. Of course, this was on Youtube though.
Me: "About the sound, I actually think the sound comparison is debatable. For example, I personally prefer the Genesis sound by a WIDE margin over the SNES, so the sound is definately more an opinionated thing in my book."
Fanboy: ""About the sound, I actually think the sound comparison is debatable."
LOL What a fanboy, it's not about your preference but what it can actually do and sega genesis would NEVER top SNES in sound quality.
Only when producers got lazy.
This video is full of fanboys.
"oh sega is better because it thing it sounds better, the snes has a better sound chip BUT I PREFER THE SEGA so the sega genesis will will for sure".
Preferring something does NOT make it better."
Me: "I said what I did with reason and actual facts. Not fanboyism.
You are wrong right off that bat about the quality. The SNES outputs sound at 32000hz and the Genesis outputs at ~55000hz.
Additionally, where did I say the Genesis is better or sounds better? Saying I prefer it over the SNES suddenly means I am saying it is better? Did I miss something?
If you don't believe me, that is not my problem. You are only demonstrating that you are the blind fanboy who is unwilling to accept this."
I kind of like getting comments like that though. Makes me laugh and I get the chance to exploit their stupidity. You can even see how accurate it is to my previous post, bad grammar and all. I think I will check out that thread you linked.
Probably not very well judging by this -Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Also, is it just me, or does this Turtles in Time song they keep using as an example of SNES superiority sound awful? I really want to know, it sounds terrible to me, am I in the minority?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf118
Is that from the NeoGAF thread? If so it doesn't surprise me that much, if I remember correctly that site has a pretty decent amount of Nintendo fanboys.
Edit:
Yes, it sounds awful. The entire game sounds bad to me. I can't really describe it very well but the whole SNES soundtrack sounds hiccupy to me. Basically so choppy it sounds like the SNES is hiccuping each note. Listening to it for a while honestly gives me a headache.
The FM Synth based Genesis and Arcade versions sound much better.
That's a bad example to use if you want to demonstrate SNES superiority when the Genesis has the same track and it sounds much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
The thing about that track is it's supposed to convey the atmosphere of fighting a tough boss and being action packed. The SNES version is so weak that it can't properly do that so of course the Genesis sounds better for this particular track. Also, I just want to point out how ugly the so called Orchestra Hits sound in the SNES version. They sound so weak and too harsh.
No Nintendo fanboy I have ever seen has ever had the slightest bit of technical knowledge. So many of the people who post here have more understanding of the tech aspects of just about every goddam system ever released than I ever will. And I'm sure most of them affiliate themselves with Sega more than anything else.
YupQuote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Yeah, but it was set-up with both versions (much like your post) except with them saying -Quote:
Originally Posted by Raijin
:?Quote:
"I rest my case. Genesis sucks"
I hate it when someone say ''SNES haz better sound than Genesis''. They are different.
Personally I really Dig the FM synth + sampled drums combo. Genesis and very few other machines like the X68000 were the best suited to capture that characteristic classic arcade sound. I also like PCE sound for similar reason.
You can't replicate all the intricacies and subtleties of a well programmed FM synth with a sample based system like the SNES.
I dont think less of the SNES for that, it certainly was better suited for some other types of sound, like orchestral music. Or for making rockish tunes without having them sounding too 'synthy' ( Thinking R&R racing )
Dude yeah, that reminds me. Everytime someone brings up something technical, an SNES fanboy always responds with "Technical talk doesn't matter, it's all about the games" or something along those lines. They always avoid technical specs and anything of the sort, but even still, if they don't want to talk about technical specs, they sure as hell don't mind jumping into a technical conversation just to explain their distaste towards it. Furthermore, if it were just about the games, why do I have to like SNES games more than Genesis ones? They talk as if only SNES made games worth playing. SNES fanboys just come off as biased and completely close minded more and more to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
The worst part of all this is that the younger generations see all the pro nintendo drivel posted by the media/idiots online and believe it. Reviewers, forums, sites, etc that try to be fair and open minded towards "not nintendo" are few and far between. Young gamers are almost contitioned to believe that nintendo is the best and nothing else is worth looking into and I hate that. I see it in my friends from back home all the time. I cannot have any kind of retro gaming conversation with my best friend because he's your average 20 year old that had a N64, GCN, Wii, DS, etc and was never exposed to anything else. The result is whenever I bring Sega up he either stares at me blankly, acts like I didn't even say anything, or says something like "Well your probably the only person in town who likes Sega. One time he was so dumbfounded when I told him I payed $18 for a Genesis game. "I can't believe they'd charge that much for something like that!"
The majority of people I come across are the typical few who've played no Genesis games at all outside of the few obvious ones like Sonic and base every opinion of the Genesis on word of mouth instead of actually looking into it themselves. It's sad, real sad, and it's examples like that which really make me hate close minded people as much as I do. My own dad is close minded about many things in fact, and I hate him for it because there is not a single logical explanation he can give me to back up why he thinks the way he does.
Edit: Ok, read a few pages in that thread at NeoGAF. You simply won't believe how hard I was laughing when people started saying "The Genesis couldn't really do bass instrument sounds."
LOL, It's absolutely hilarious because the Genesis was probably the best when it came to bass. FM bass is better than the bass even from today's consoles. Those guys must have been high or something.
Really? I think it sounds awesome.
I would say I have a bit of technical knowledge. Then again I'm not exclusively a nintendo fanboy, I'm a famicom, snes, megadrive, pc engine / pce cd, (probably sega cd), and various arcade game fanboy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
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Originally Posted by zetastrike
Compare it to the Genesis or Arcade versions. The lack of choppiness makes those versions significantly better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
I have hyperstone heist as well as turtles in time (not going to pull a TA and use this as an excuse to post a picture of it), I think turtles in time sounds much better.
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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
The Arcade version sounds leaps and bounds better:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
You can even hear the exact same instruments from the Genesis verison. The Arcade version simply has a bit more percussion and instruments due to the YM2151 having 2 more channels, as well as the arcade board having a few more PCM channels for voices and drums.
The main instrument in the SNES version sounds like some guy burping/hicupping "buh bwuh bwuh bwuuh buh buh buh buh!". I can't stand it.
I don't have a problem with the rest of the soundtrack, just that one song, sounds like someone retching to me, sped up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
I've always felt that the Genesis version nailed it for a lot of the tracks in the game. Especially this one:
Arcade:
Genesis:
The SNES version isn't bad, but the questionable instruments really sound wrong to me. It doesn't really flow, it seems to chop along and loses energy because of it:
That sounds like something someone made as a parody of bad SNES sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
You don't understand what fanboy means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
Here's some technical discussion:
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I just wonder how people can argue the fact the on a technical level the sony chip in the snes was light years ahead of the static producing genesis sound chip which if I am not mistaken is the same chip they had in the master system.
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+ transparencies, sprite effects(scaling, rotation),colors per sprite, resolution, sound qualityQuote:
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I can't think of a single thing the SNES was better at than the Mega Drive.
Colors
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Guys, the Genesis sound chip is closer in quality though still surpassed by that of the Turbografx-16.
It's like we're comparing the sound chips of the NES and SNES, and calling the NES superior. Some may prefer robot farts and ear shattering screeching, but I think these people can only stand it because the sound chip's screeching destroyed their eardrums when they were kids.
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Every Genesis game sounds the same, no variety, and the sound quality is poor!
What set the Super Nintendo apart from the Genesis is that the music used in the games was designed to be emotional and atmospheric, instead of just providing background music. The SPC sound chip was capable of using samples for the instruments which gave a richer variety of sounds the games could use.
Some of the more talented composers used these samples to provide atmospheric effects integrated with the music, that envoked feelings of loneliness, tension, which was lacking for the Genesis.
Perhaps this is why the music from the SNES games, is more widely recognised and respected, when we look back now.
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The SNES used samples, however, while the Genesis was chip music. Technically speaking, a designer could likely have created samples for the SNES based on Genesis sound and emulated the sound of that system. The Genesis, however, could never hope to copy the symphonic notes the SNES could produce.
Say what you will, but the attempts made in Dracula X to match the CD version actually hold up BETTER than the PC Engine CD version (which now sound rather dated in comparison).
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IMO it is like the sound guys for these genesis games just said to themselves "Well the sound hardware for this thing is so shitty all we can is just rock our asses off and see what happens"
And it sometimes worked!
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SNES Dracula X is IMO technically the best Castlevania of the generation, graphically and sonically, pity the was half-assed, rushed and shoved into a tiny 4meg cart. The soundtrack is about 90% up to a CD quality.
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Super Nintendo Entertainment System of Library, Sound, Colors, Controllers, Console Build Quality Exclusive Franchises and Graphical Technique Advantages l OT lQuote:
Genesis Processor Speed and Resolution Advantages |OT|
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The extra capabilities of the SNES were used all the time. The most prominent feature being transparency. That shows up CONSTANTLY. Even the Saturn couldn't easily replicate this feature.
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Except that the SNES didn't need a million tiny little sprites on the screen and every boss to be made out of connected circular sprites because it could do huge sprites, transparencies, scaling, rotation... End level 1 boss in Contra 3, the giant walking robot in Axeley...
Cybernator was a very 'Genesis' looking game: very busy, lots of explosions, muted colour palatte (by choice instead of by limits in that case) - and it easily outclasses anything of that ilk on the Sega system.
Once programmers started using interesting graphical stuff instead of arcade style 'millions of tiny sprites' the SNES pulled away in shooters. The later Parodius games, obviously Axeley, still one of the most beautiful shooters ever created.
And if you get into busy, fast, 8-bit style arcade shooters, the Genesis is crushed by the PC Engine anyway.
I don't think I've ever seen any particular thing (outside of robot fart noises) that the Genesis could do that wasn't also done on the SNES, but there are a million things in reverse. Many of the best looking Genesis games were re-created flawlessly or in improved quality on the SNES (eg Flashback), a talented team could easily do that in most cases. Well programmed multi-plats looked half a gen ahead on the SNES (eg the MK games, even though they were shit games anyway).
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in terms of audio quality the snes destroys the genesis. the audio in a game like tales of phantasia [link to very Genesis-sounding SNES track with long voice sample in it] isnt even possible on a genesis.
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Yoshi's Island used a special chip to produce these effects (SuperFX2). This was the beauty of using cartridges. A stock SNES could not produce those same effects without the aid of this extra chip, however, and that extra chip was proprietary and expensive.Quote:
Yoshi's Island does both of these things at the same time.Quote:
Anyways, the SNES hardware could not rotate/scale sprites.
What am I missing here?
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What madness is this? SNES could do scaling and rotation just fine on its own (Mario World, Castlevania IV, Secret of Mana, FFVI, etc)
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Whaaa?
Some of the first games for the SNES had scaled and rotating sprites.
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So even Ludwig Von Koopa jumping was a background?
Madness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx2OryyaTEg
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I just played through the whole game just to prove you wrong and MAN are you right about your statement.Quote:
Bowser here is for example not a sprite, but a background that moves around. That's how they managed to make him rotate.
Still, I'm pretty sure that there are games with no extra chips that have rotating and/or scaling sprites.
Even so, I haven't seen the Genesis/Mega Drive doing any fancy rotating and/or scaling for their sprites! So, HA to you, mister!
These idiots need to get curb-stomped by Lord Karnage and hurled off a mountain by Segata Sanshiro
Those guys are just a bunch of silly ol' jokesters~
Well...duh, I was comparing the snes tmnt 4 to hyperstone heist. I still prefer how the snes version sounds, just a preference.
God...that's just retarded. Seriously I couldn't read more than 7 or so of those quotes they're just so stupid it's an absolute waste of time and effort. I feel my brain cells dieing as I read that stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
"I just wonder how people can argue the fact the on a technical level the sony chip in the snes was light years ahead of the static producing genesis sound chip which if I am not mistaken is the same chip they had in the master system."
I said fuck it, too much brain fuck in the quote level check.
You're not alone, although I am impressed by how similar the Genesis compositions sound to the arcade original. The arcade sounds the best, but I still prefer the SNES over the Genesis in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
Yes nintendo fanboys are incredibly ignorant and mentally handicapped individuals. I think this was a given by now to anyone that's not a nintendo fanboy. Even sega fans who have been tainted by nintendo suffer brain damage (see TA who can't read anymore).
I love how they say that Sonic is the only Sega game that sounds any good, that the genesis has worse drums and bass, that the SNES can do sprite scaling and rotation without addon chips, that DKC and starfox prove the SNES hardware was superior, that the SNES soundchip was almost CD quality, that the SNES is better because it has a higher resolution, that all genesis games sound like farts and screeching sounds, that the genesis being faster was a myth, etc...
The level of stupid is so high I think Einstein traveled to the future, opened NeoGAF, came back and said one of his most famous quotes:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Same here, I wish they had put Neon Night Riders in the game.I love the arcade version of that song, and the Genny probably could have gotten it down well.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Huh? To me the snes version of this sounds way better than the genesis one (yes I listened to them all). It even sounds better than the arcade version to me.
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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
No way jose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
Arcade
SNES
Haha okay this one sounds better with the arcade version. I was talking about the one song trekkies posted.
The only way SNES Turtles in Time could possibly sound better than the Arcade game is if it is listened to through really shallow bandwidth speakers such as laptop or TV speakers. Even then bias must be prevailing over observation.
I have extremly crappy laptop speakers and I still think the aracde version sounds better.My speakers are so bad that I can hardly hear the bass on anything without turning up the volume to a point where the volume hurts my ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Well its pretty true , bah the rubbish about Sonic .Quote:
I love how they say that Sonic is the only Sega game that sounds any good, that the genesis has worse drums and bass, that the SNES can do sprite scaling and rotation without addon chips
You lot go on about the likes of hard Corps. Well to me Contra III sounds far better and here's the real games running on the 'real deal'. Not only does Contra III sound a hell of a lot better, its 2nd boss stage is doing the Mode 7 effect that the Mega Drive couldn't handle...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p2DG...Xu4p-g&index=2
Those sound effects still make me think WTH were they thinking...
I'm pretty sure the MD can do that kind of scaling and rotation, but it would use up too much space. It can "handle" it just fine if it can handle 3D stuff fine I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
By the way, the explosion sound effect in Contra III sounds like wet farts. All of this talk of the sound is opinionated you do realize that? The sound effects in Hard Corps to me sound much better, the explosion as well even if it is low quality, at least it sounds like an explosion and not someone on the toilet.
And this gimmick effect kills Contra 3 for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Also, i'm not alone in hating Contra 3 mode 7 stages. So, very bad example, this effect adds nothing to game, moreover it's make game worse.
That boss isn't a sprite. Mode 7 can't scale or rotate sprites. This is what this lot was going on about with all the "SNES fanboys have no technical knowledge" talk.Quote:
Well its pretty true , bah the rubbish about Sonic .*You lot go on about the likes of hard Corps. Well to me Contra III sounds far better and here's the real games running on the 'real deal'. Not only does Contra III sound a hell of a lot better, its 2nd boss stage is doing the Mode 7 effect that the Mega Drive couldn't handle...Quote:
I love how they say that Sonic is the only Sega game that sounds any good, that the genesis has worse drums and bass, that the SNES can do sprite scaling and rotation without addon chips
OMG, years of emulation have made me expect laser beams to shoot out your @ss in hard corps when you fart in real life!!
I agree the sfx in contra 3 suck, but the music is done right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
There's a reason why the gba contra game has the stupid mode 7 stages removed...because it's really nothing special. Top down mode 7 is sorta whatever. And when the stages obviously don't have much effort put in due to them expecting you to be all distracted with the mode-7-ness that just makes it even worse. But I do think contra 3 music sounds better, just not the sfx.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raijin
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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda