As long as were all on the same page at the end no big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
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As long as were all on the same page at the end no big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
Youtube can't even show 60fps so I'm not sure why the example is a Youtube video.
Well having the cpu run at the same speed as a regular cpu won't change anything. Having faster ram might make certain things load a split second faster. You won't probably notice any real improvement until you overclock, but then the rest of the system will get off sync once you go beyond a certain speed. In a nutshell, his mods don't serve any realy purpose except for practicing for coming up with an upgrade that would actually change the quality of something. Certainly not a waste of time and a great way to gain experience.
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Originally Posted by sheath
Please, accept my apologies for my harsh initial post anyway. Maybe I should have replied to Drakon only...Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
About the page, it was just pure luck, Trekkies, 'cause I use that 40 posts per page mode and I think no one else does; so I have no idea when you guys are still on the same page or not.
Yep. YT is no good for frame rate comparisons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
I think I might have missed that one too...Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
IIRC, even with an asynchronous overclock circuit the Genesis model 1 VA6 couldn't take more than 12 MHz for the CPU clock. I think a lot things go wrong over that point and when I tried like 14.5 MHz overclock I managed to get some games running for some time but extremely garbled graphically speaking and it looked like a VDP or VRAM problem, not a main RAM issue. And the common 68K model doesn't overheat at 12 MHz, so IDK why evildragon got that "Military spec" 68k.
The replacement for a 68010 could be much more interesting but that would require an extra Genesis IMO 'cause the 68010 has known incompatibility with some games, like Sonic 3.
The RAM replacement sounds interesting though, 'cause I think they're working out of the specification when you use overclock (IIRC the access times are around 75 ns using 12 MHz). Also, IDK if using 10 ns capable RAM (by the way, where did you get those RAM modules, evildragon?) you'd get even lower access times than when you overclock the Genesis with the original RAM. It could be interesting in some cases, I wonder if games with noticeable "loadings" like UMK3 could benefit from that. Or if you could eliminate those little graphical glitches in some Tengen games; I would like to hear something from some of our experts about this...
That was actually just a figure of speech. Saying "We're all on the Same Page" in English is a metaphor for "Now we are all up to date on the conversation and understand each other."Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
I never read that one before (most of English metaphors have a similar one in Brazilian Portuguese, but I think it's not the case here), thanks, Trekkies. Now I'm pretty sure I wasn't on the same page. ;)
Basically it comes from a situation when say a bunch of people are reading a book together and before they start discussing the book they check to be sure they are all on the same page.
If upgrading to faster compatible RAM is anything similar to PCs it shouldn't make a difference except in overclocking scenarios. Buying a better quality/tested 68000 versus a "compatible" 68010 would probably require a bunch of trial and error testing either way. Since everything we have tested so far with the 12Mhz overclock has been without slowdown and the only limiter seems to be the ROM chips themselves in the cartridges, I'm not sure why we would go that far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
I only know how it works on PCs, but the system bus would have to be set to a higher multiplier or the system bus itself would have to be higher to take advantage of faster RAM. I don't know anything about how the oscillators affect the system bus speed or whether there are multipliers for the Genesis CPU speed though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
The point with the 68010 is: "the 68010 had a "loop mode", which could be considered a tiny and special-case instruction cache, which accelerates loops that consist of only 2 instructions.". In some games it may give you some extra fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
My idea would be overclock + 68010 replacement + RAM upgrade, this would probably be the fastest Genesis you could have.
AFAIK there are several games incompatible with the 68010 but not exactly tons. It's something that worth a try IMO.
You have some stuff here: http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/...pic.php?p=8728Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
I got the ram from an old 486 mono as per tiidos reccomendation. I think the military spec CPUs can handle more of an overclock so it might help and the faster ram may help too.
One thing of interest, is that the RAM in the Genesis is PSRAM. This is basically "fake" SRAM (DRAM in an SRAM pin compatible package). I installed true SRAM.
What surprises me is how much punishment you can put some cpus through. I'm running gsu 2 superfx chips at 45 mhz (the default speed is 21.4 mhz) and the chip barely even gets warm. It's always awesome when you discover this sort of untapped powaaaaa.
And as far as my camera in those interlacing effects, that is because my camera was set to a 1/60 shutter speed at 30fps. If I was using a 1/30 shutter speed at 30fps, it would be motion blur which I opted not to have that. But then when the sprites were flickering you would've been able to see it though.
PS, I hate when people call it interlacing effects. The Genesis does not interlace these old games it's just simply a flashing sprite.
I could have filmed at 24fps with a 1/60 shutter, and then the sprite would have been there, but it'd have been flickering randomly and looked bad, along with even more choppy looking game play.
I wonder if these chips were truly ever rated for their default speed. It might be how they design car PCM's. Use fast CPU's and run them slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
It makes sense to do that for embedded/mobile applications - the slower you clock the parts, the less power it uses. Take something that is well beyond the power budget and clock it at half the frequency and it'll be within the power budget. In fact, I'd really love to see some power measurements on those overclocked FX chips... bet they're running well over what the entire cart is alloted for current draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
I seem to recall a big deal being made about the PSP's CPU being throttled down for this purpose (as a battery life extending measure mostly). I believe its set to generally run at about 66% or so (and that's ignoring any overclocking performance one could get out of the 2962) Looks like the GPU was also set at 66% as well. I know a couple games bypassed this (especially after better batteries were available), but in general...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
Well you got to be realistic . Since the DS can run PSO you don't need X-Box levels of GFX to be quite honest . A good Spec Pentium II could have run the game, but it would never have been optimised.Quote:
Well, that looks pretty close to the Specs for the Original Xbox doesn't it?
I mean Splinter Cell III looked awesome on the X-Box yet the same game running on a similar spec PC didn't look as half as good but that's what closed hardware does for you I guess
So its unfair because Tim never really worked on the Mega Drive , but its fair to bring up Home Brew vids from a far more developed community and where I doubt the same community even bother making Snes Sound demo's, never mind trying to get MD sound run on a Snes , but that's fair ?Quote:
To answer your question, no, the genesis can't do that, unless it's Tim Follin
Well of course - just like there's terrible looking games on both systems . It goes with out saying no matter how great the hardware, you're going to get a game that looks or sounds poor .Quote:
The snes does have some games with terrible sounding guitars, like the guitars in the opening stage of megaman
That is nice music to be fairQuote:
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Originally Posted by Kamahl
In some of the Arcade shooters it was Cave confirmed this and slowdown was put in on purpose, in Thunder Force 6 too. I did read a interview with Archer MacLean how said the Bottle neck in the MD was to do with memory and communication to the VDP and that's why the Amiga was better at rendering Polygons in his opinion .Quote:
Whether it's true or not, I've heard programmers mention several times that slowdown is actually something programmed into games
All machines have a pros and cons
Yes, there was some concern that there would be a heat problem, but homebrew allowed running both the CPU and GPU at 333MHz instead of 222MHz with only one reported issue - the Wifi board on the oldest model PSP refused to work at 333MHz. My own port of Doom changed the clock to 333MHz. It did eat through the battery charge at that rate. Some homebrew was designed to lower the clock rate even more to last longer... like music players - they'd drop the CPU clock down to just enough to decode the audio.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armoured Priest
The most likely issue with running at 333MHz on the PSP I could believe would have concerned UMDs running at the same time - the UMD generated a LOT of heat and took a lot of power. Since at the time all Sony's software was UMD, there might have been an issue with software running from UMD and streaming from it while running at 333MHz. Homebrew all ran from the memstick, so it wasn't an issue.
Blame the SNES for being so homebrew hostile. And yes, Tim is a special case. He did work on the Megadrive but the game he worked on was unreleased, and it still hasn't been dumped. The one video there is with music is poorly recorded off a bad model 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
You can't compare Tim Follin with homebrew composers working in their spare time. It's the difference between Mozart and some guy on the street with a violin.
Indeed, freaking Sunsoft were kings back in the day when it came to music. I only wish they used PCM drums instead of FM drums, but the FM drums in this song are actually quite good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Sunsoft, Sakimoto and Technosoft could really make FM sing.
It's not "choppy" it's slowdown :p
Here's what happened with the superfx and why. Our resident overclock guy (robivy64) fed a crystal oscillator signal straight into a mario chip starfox 1 cart. According to the post by robivy64 the mario chip would overheat at 27 mhz, and even at 25 mhz he needed to add a heatsink for it not to overheat. The snes has a 21.4 mhz clock signal wired into the cartridge slot (this seems to be the master clock for the whole console actually). I guess nintendo figured "smeh the mario chip can't stably go much faster than the snes system clock speed so we might as well use the 21.4 mhz signal that's already there and save us money on parts". Later nintendo made improved superfx chips that could handle much much more punishment, but they never advertised it, so for the sake of continuity the clock speed remained the same across all the different superfx chips. When I first started experimenting I wired up starfox 1 eproms to both a gsu 1 pcb as well as a gsu 2. The gsu 1 could go up to around 27 mhz without crapping out, but it suffered major slowdown issues (since it's basically just a completed mario chip). The gsu 2 is a major improvement, barely any slowdown, and seemingly endless overclocking capability. The only thing that slows down how far I can overclock games with the gsu 2 is the speed of everyting else.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
Back with the first superfx chip (the mario chip) 21.4 mhz made perfect sense. Even with the gsu 1 I still think 21.4 mhz made sense since with the gsu 1 unless it's barely drawing anything even at overclocked speed you'll get a lot of slowdown defeating the purpose entirely. Having the framerate constantly switch between smooth and ultra choppy is really annoying and that's what you get when you overclock a gsu 1.
The gsu 1 and gsu 2 pcbs have their own self contained clock circuits, running these chips off of the clock signal provided on the cartridge connector makes the game run identically to when it's using the clock circuit built onto the superfx pcb. Self containing the clock circuits it's almost as if nintendo is saying "hey buddy, these chips can run on a separate clock signal from everything else and it'll still work" *wink wink nudge nudge*
Overclocking the gsu 2 to insane speeds seems to take less power than adding new video and audio circuits interestingly enough. My snes jr with rebuilt video and audio circuits I needed to feed more power to stop audio buzzing in the default audio circuit, but using the 2x speed starfox cart (before I added rebuilt circuits) never caused audio buzzing.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
What the hell is your point? Do you just argue with people for the sake of arguing? You really seem to be purposely trying to create arguments which is why people are saying you're "trolling". Maybe your issue is you can be a little over-defensive with the amazing snes. I'm sure some people here are over-defensive with the genesis. I made that post 6 pages ago. If you're going to say stuff like "we gotta compare games of the time and the quality of the samples used at the time". By your manipulative (and completely shifty) logic we should be using what came out back in the day instead of what homebrewers are pumping out today. By your "logic" if we factor in all the games that came out on the snes back in day with bad sounding guitars that should bring down the average quality capability of the snes. You can't hide behind your "we can only count games during the heyday" defense only when it suites making you look right but suddenly drop that defense when it comes back to bite you and make the snes look "weaker" by averaging the sound quality of all these games together. If you're going to measure a system audio capability by what was pumped out during the heydays then that's fine, but don't measure it that way only when it makes your favourite console look good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
Anyway the genesis has lots of games with bad sounding guitars as well. I never said it doesn't, you're making it sound like I said the genesis doesn't have this same problem and you have to come to the defense of your beloved snes. I think overall for heyday games the snes sounds better than the genesis. Considering only guitars I think on average the heyday games were equal with guitar quality between the genesis and the snes. I cherish the snes too so you don't need to bring up something I posted 6 pages ago just to dispel any negative impact that may possibly stem from what I said.
Conveniently mentioned whenever people point out weaknesses of the snes. We all already know this, you don't need to pointlessly mention that every console has weaknesses everytime someone points out the weaknesses of the snes. Your selective and biased defense can be irritating. I know that this particular time you weren't coming to the defense of just the snes but you seem to mention this "everything has a weakness" line the most when people mention flaws of the snes. You don't seem to be afraid to pounce on weaknesses of the genesis. Let haters hate on the snes, but as long as you show this sort of bias people won't take you very seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
*end epic post which is certain to gain me respect with trekkiesunites and evildragon*Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Phantasy Star Zero is not the same as Phantasy Star Online. Graphically it's no where near as nice looking. The frame rate is lower, the resolution is lower, and the models have far less polygons. You seem to be missing the point here. I am saying I doubt a Pentium II could run PSO and have it look as good as the Dreamcast version. The quality of the Dreamcast version is the minimum standard that would need to be reached.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
If you are truly saying "well if you downgrade it enough it will run!" then all I have to say to that is "Well if you downgrade DOOM 3 enough you could get some form of it running on the NES."
The howbrew seance most prob has far better soundharware, documentation, ram , PC's to what was available to the likes of Tim back in the day . I don't think Tim did much if any sound on the ZX Spectrum , but you just knew the music he was getting from the C64 would be impossible to do on the ZX Spectrum.Quote:
You can't compare Tim Follin with homebrew composers working in their spare time.
There's no getting away from the fact that PCM is better at some effects, more so when all the channels are able to play samples .
That's like saying Blue Burst isn't the same. PSO game could have been done on a Pentium II with a Voodoo II card and would have looked and run quite nice at a guess, but then the Pentium II would have cost a bomb compared to the DC.Quote:
Phantasy Star Zero is not the same as Phantasy Star Online.
No at all. Look at the 360 there's a console with great spec's yet Vampire Rain looks like complete poo on the system and that came from a decent developer. Look at Sonic 06 that is a complete mess on both the 360 and PS3 .Quote:
Conveniently mentioned whenever people point out weaknesses of the snes.
No it's not like saying Blue Burst isn't the same. Blue Burst is essentially an expansion of PSO adding Episode IV and re-porting the game to the PC. Phantasy Star Zero is a completely different game. Have you actually played it? There's some pretty obvious design aspects that are catering to limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Huh? You do realize that the Genesis is STILL containing a YM2612 and with 64KB work RAM and 8KB Z80 RAM. None of this has changed whatsoever for the homebrew community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Apparently the Genesis hardware is like a fine wine, it only gets better with age and becomes more powerful. And I guess that means the SNES is like a 20 year old glass of Chocolate milk.
Yes but the tools and equipment used to compose make tracks just isn't the same at all . Back in the 90's to be a DJ needed some serious investment , these days your basic PC and shareware can make anyone sound half decent . Art and Music packages are a world away to what was around to the developers in the 90's.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
It's FM synthesis, what the PC used to write the code, has no bearing on sound quality though.
It's just all about how you set up the ops, LFO's, etc.
My Yamaha DX7 sounds just the same as it did in the 80's, but I can download new patches or make new ones myself.
http://www.troll.me/images/birthday-...r-ignorant.jpg
It's all a matter of opinion. Stop trying to correct other people for having an opinion on something that's different from yours.
You should rename yourself to "artful dodger". Have you ever in your life stopped, said "you know what, I was wrong" and apologized for anything?..
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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I enjoy the SNES controllers better. That's my biggest thing
Still crappy for fighters though.
And as usual you're wrong. He was the best ZX spectrum musician, so much so that current homebrew still can't touch him even after multiple attempts at copying his sound driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-D24A_N4d4
And the genesis control pad is better? I guess the easiest one for fighters is the avenue pad 6 for the pc engine. Still I think shoulder buttons are brilliant and great for every other type of game.
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Originally Posted by evildragon
The 6 Button Genesis controller is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
Still don't like the d-pad on it
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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
At least it's easier to get diagonals with it, due to it's round nature.
Honestly, the 6-button Genesis controller and the Model 2 /Japanese Saturn controllers probably have the best D-Pads I've ever used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
This. No question.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
I'm all about the d-pad that's just four directions. I mastered the thumb mash technique on the snes pad for getting diagonals. Same way I mastered the thumb mash to press both the a + b at the same time on the nes pad when required and being able to switch between just one button or both at the same time.
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Originally Posted by evildragon
The only thing better than the D-Pad on a Genesis 6-button or Saturn Model 2 controller is a Joystick.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon