I've listened to Meshuggah and it wasn't as grating as Metal Squad :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
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I've listened to Meshuggah and it wasn't as grating as Metal Squad :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
Love that track, but yeah. Sounds much better with a lower cut off frequency. Speaking of loving that track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEMpyATFRQc#t=201 (timestamped to 3:21). Most awesome that they re-released some of those tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I just have no idea why Thunder Force IV gets so much love in for its music ?. To me the likes of Super R-Type, Axleay, Star Fox are far better (Just for music ok ) and to me on the Mega Drive I liked the music to the likes of Battle Squadron, Elemental Master ,Gynoug (really awesome MD music),Gley Lancer.
Mind you when it came to music in shooters on 16 bit systems the Neo Geo was just in a league of its own - Last Resort is just stunning
TFIV is metal style music; those others you listed aren't (IIRC). People like compositions, regardless of the instrument quality. I like the compositions of TFIV as well. Metal goes good with some shmups. TFIV, Lords of Thunder, and Sapphire - love those type of tracks. Of course, I like me some technohouse-whatever-you-call-it too for shmups as well (Spriggan Mark2, Robo Aleste, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Thunder Force IV tracks gets some lovin' because there is nothing more satisfying than blowing up things and saving the world while rocking out to some 16-bit ripped Dokken tunes. I mean, it's Dokken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKF5R8doqDE
^ They pronounce Lightening funny.
Yeah buts its shit metal imo and more so with the Mega Drive trying to handle Electric guitar rifts = :(Quote:
TFIV is metal style music; those others you listed aren't
I can't think of many if any done well and always wish Sepultura (when Max was in the band) did a music score for a shooter , if one wanted metal music to a shooter (If ones wants metal in a shooter then let a decent Metal Band do the music imo)Quote:
Metal goes good with some shmups
To me when it comes to a shooter just give the music score to Hitoshi Sakimoto and you don't need metal , Techno is always a better fit :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCDS-T2E_Lg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXpJymMVILM
I really can't stand either of those tunes, they just sound generic to me. I guess metal riffs can sound generic too, but that isn't what I hear. Radiant Silvergun's instruments have prevented me from even wanting to play the game, bunch of gongs and bells in a shooter just doesn't mesh.
Anyway, I found this while searching for more TFIV Dokken comparisons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAbLcVkL40M
-edit-
God's Balls!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnLAC5AJPuM
Well I wouldn't call any of RSG tunes generic at all .
Just when it came to metal, it's always been a let down in shooter for me . I just wish these guys did a music track to shooter while they were together and at their prime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLRQ44jPQaE
That would make terrrrrible shmup music ;>_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I would totally play some old school Megaman to that cover track! :rock:Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Not sure about Megaman, it seems a little slow. I need to be careful about putting that track on my MP3 player, if I drive to it I might burst into flames while achieving orbit.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaitheous
Haha . But really if one metal in a shooter best leave it to a real metal band . The pathetic rock music in the likes of Total Eclipse and the like, make me want to cry. Mind you some of the guitar rifts in Batman Returns on the Mega CD wasn't too bad I guessQuote:
That would make terrrrrible shmup music ;>_>
What about:Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhbvHFWUj2E
;)
The second to last boss music in LoT is what a (good) Sepultura (BtR/Arise) shooter bgm track would sound like.
Stage six of Gate of Thunder sounds like Sepultura's Symptom of the Universe cover.
That's the sort of Heavy Metal music I hate in video games , sounds a bit like Stryper - and even that's a insult to that great bandQuote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Here's the sort of the music I would have loved to seen Max do for Video games shooters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box79oyeVJY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igULEx4davY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl60yuTJXZg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7JmSLWGE6U
Yeah... but can the Genesis do Board of Canada!?!? The c64 sure can:
Well, this knowledge is strange to me and i never touch this field. I just want to know if there is anyone who has interest in short wigs and wants to learn how to style them.
:topicsucks:
I dont' sure but the genesis version of Jim Power is apparently supporting three layers overlapping in the bonus stages, watch from 14:28.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqzSCB_MZis
Groove metal for shmups is a terrible idea :yuck:Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The only kind of metal that works great in video games is old school speed metal :love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDPCUgDJPyE
And yes... :topicsucks:
EDIT: Didn't look at the date of the post I was quoting :sorry:
The extra layer is made out of sprites, notice that the ship doesn't shoot anything on those stages :p. The things you pick up are background tiles that are erased when you touch them. It's really clever but not really doable in a proper game setting with enemies and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE
^What's going on between ~21:30 and ~24:50 in that same video.
The game is flipping the plane priorities at a scanline near the bottom, so the background becomes the foreground. If you notice, the area where those weird plants overlap the far background is black (because those plants are part of the far background, just switched to be in front of everything)Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
The Amiga version does the same thing, but without a black area (because it has a third layer to fill that part)
One thing Jim Power shows pretty well is that you don't need to be particularly genius with colours on the Genesis. It uses one palette for the main character and weapons, one for enemies, and one for each background. Simple, and it looks great.
Well I had already suspected, but the Genny version its pretty much on pairs in colors level, and is one better game by a mile against the Super Nes version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
In this specifc stage the the Genesis version look better despite having one layer less, actually the Super Nes version had the gameplay wounded, due the poor adition of the midbackgound layer, its confuse and infernal on the foots stages, the Amiga version is very very smooth, doing correctally the job.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
If someone patches the genesis version to make the scrolling go the right way, it'll be the best version easily. Not stupid mode-7 stages and a health bar? Sign me up.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE
Yes the scrolling on the SNES version is unbearable. Technically impressive but damn, gameplay wise what a failure... I don't get why they kept the circular scrolling for the ports, I'm pretty sure only the SNES version was supposed to have the 3D goggles.
The Genesis version was unreleased, so who knows what the final product would have been?
Well, the game is fully playable, and has all the levels. Probably wouldn't change much. All that's missing is the sound effects (which are placeholders from Mega Turrican) and the rest of the music.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
Supposedly pikointeractive is working on it (and the owner hates the reverse parallax), so we'll eventually get the best Jim Power version.
And it's about damn time too, even the PC Engine has a version!
Speaking of which, that version needs a lot of love. Jim power without parallax?! Iffy controls on a game built around precision platforming? It's saving grace is the phenomenal soundtrack (and using really nice quality PCM sound effects for everything, a rarity on the PCE).
EDIT: Genesis game with 3 independent layers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtxJWmZe0KU
Without too many things moving onscreen I suppose wasting some sprites on extra background detail is fine. 4/20 sprites wasted per line isn't too bad.
The SNES version actually has a whopping 4 layers, but loses the clouds at the bottom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnUkhcmK_xU
Ha ha ha ha do you perspicacious, anticipated me, and just posted the example i had my mind! And to be honest i found the genesis version a bit more dinamic, mostly in 0:48 beetles detailed sprites, flowers and all those seeds spinning, it is something to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
The Super Nes version also had to make concessions, everything works more slowly.
But I still have tricks up its sleeve, Ristar in Flora 2, trees lines midbackground moves independently and is fully overlapped in 4:08.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQdq3qwrydw
And this fantastic scene, skip to 15 seconds and see vertical parallax and one third layer, and 2:01 apparently 3 layers independent scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMDQu2aNJE0
Yes the SNES version loses quite a bit, and has some nasty load times to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE
Wrong video, but yes, Ristar does the same thing in Flora that Mickey Mania does on that stage, a couple of sprites for extra detail. It looks really nice and more games should have done it.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE
I'm not sure how Ristar accomplishes it (probably animation), but it looks lovely. At 2:01 you never have 3 layers completely on top of each other, it's the same thing Jim Power does on that stage with the cool plants.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE
Sonic 3 also has 3 layers in Hydrocity Zone. And there are probably more games. You didn't see it much but some devs went that extra mile.
Shinobi 3 does some of this too, where the graphics are shifted in VRAM for some repeating far background graphics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
The 3D water line in Sonic 3's Hydrocity Zone is done very well.
Sonic3&K does this stuff also in Ice Cap and Mushroom Hill, possibly others too. And it is tile animations.
The waterline in Hydrocity and Launch Base stages is probably the best looking water line I have seen in a 16bit game.
Nothing could be the Mega Drive for scrolling at the time imo .
https://imageshack.com/i/idPEwSSQpYep Shadow of the Best it's proof that the Mega Drive can roll three independent layers without sprites, such as the Amiga version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Normal game the tree layers moves independently, regardless different speeds , with complete overlap in certain occasions
https://imageshack.com/i/idNMBx5Ip
Disable the layer A and the foreground wall and trees disappear.
https://imageshack.com/i/pa2AfxBzp
Disable layer B and erase the ground textures, mountains and line clouds.
https://imageshack.com/i/p7xj52uvp
Turning off the sprites, the moon, baloons and main character gone, but the screen is not black, the sky layer maintain originals colors, and the ground is not completally erased, what is this?
https://imageshack.com/i/idPEwSSQp
Gens K mod emulator
Attachments are broken Epsylon.
Do note that SoTB does not have 3 layers on the Amiga, nor the genesis. Just a couple of extra sprites in the sky.
SoTB changes the background colour as the screen is being drawn, that's what's making the gradient. More genesis games should have done that to get extra colours.
I insert imageshack links, attachments are very complicated for insert here :daze:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
If SotB do or not do 3 layers i don't know, but the sky is not erased and work as third layer perfectly.
Super Fantasy Zone apparently display one third layer on Piknica level, skip to 2:34.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwZAtSTbSOU
The Genesis unreleased version of Dragon's Lair, aparently put one extra layer over the Super Nes version in some stages.
Genesis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9xWbIhC-0Q
Super nes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOCg-23EIc
Looks like the opposite. The SNES appears to always use 3 overlapping tile layers, with one of them sometimes being translucent. The Genesis version is always 2 overlapping layers, with some small sparce strips scrolling on top, which might use the hud layer, but are minimal enough that it could just be sprites.
Similar to the stage in Mickey Mania where the SNES version features an entire extra later, the Genesis version was given some Sonic-style sliding strips in places on the back layer to compensate.
On a technical level though, the SNES is pushing the kind of layering that the Genesis can't do the same way. But it has so much extra sprite pushing ability and SNES games tend to be so light on sprites (this game being a good example), that it could produce more or less the same thing.
But this really is a good example of one of the big technical advantages that the SNES has over the Genesis.
^This.